Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[Los_29]

I started looking at the Summer League stats of some top 4 picks over the last few years. Started with Karl-Anthony Towns and in 5 games he averaged:

13/7/2/1/2 with 3.5 TO's per game on 39% shooting from the field. This was the #1 pick of a draft.

Despite the poor shooting there are a lot of positives we can take from Scottie's Summer League performance. His defense has been great, he's quick to close out on shooters, he's showing his defensive versatility, he's getting after it on the boards, he's blocking shots and getting steals. On offense he hasn't been good but it's also very tough to get into an offensive rhythm when you're not touching the ball. There were plenty of times last night where Scottie was wide open near the basket and in the corners and Precious, Banton and Flynn all brushed him off and chucked up some ill-advised shots. Not saying he would've made it but you can sense his frustration when he played such a prominent role on offense for FSU and then in Summer League is barely touching the ball. He's also missed some very easy shots at the start of the first game last Sunday and then during his stretch last night when he got banged up. He hit's those shots and his fg% goes from awful to bad right in Mobley, Suggs and Cade territory.

[Mikistan]

Having watched every minute of all 3 games, I don't get why people are being so negative.

This group of guys had a bad second game, talked it over and put in some great defensive effort and just dominated the hyped up Houston Summer League team.

It was also the first game where "positionless basketball" looked pretty functional without Flynn on the court to organize things.

Precious has been great but with more time with the team, I hope he starts looking to pass.

Ish is the best player on the team in my books so far. Love him coming off the bench for us to cause opposing scorers fits and try to throw them off rhythm.

I don't get why people are down on Scottie, unless they are just watching highlights and looking at boxscores. He does so many things well for a kid his age.

If you look at my draft posts, I'm a hard Sugg stan and still am. After yesterday's game I can see what the Raptors are going for team building wise and why Scottie was the pick. We are trying to innovate and get weird. We are asking guys who don't normally have the freedom to be versatile to experiment and play through mistakes.

I love the progress I'm seeing from the group with one exception: David Johnson. I was most excited by his pick up on draft night but the same thing that kept him out of the first round is making him seem like a waste of space on a 2 way deal. The man just spaces out and stands around, watching the game being played around him. His effort level just isn't fitting in with the rest of the group.

I'm really excited by the way the Raps want to play this year and there are going to be bumps and a lot of failure along the way. If this is a development year for a new positionless system which puts us in a position to grab another player who would thrive in a system like that in next years draft (and there are more than a few) - the time is now to do it.

Scottie fits that team vision better than Suggs. I'm going to hate watching him go Alpha playing for the Magic. But the Raps team and system has the chance to be more special than Suggs the individual player.

That is what is making this Summer League team fun for me. We are on to something special, but it isn't a star. It's a system we are finding the best players for. I think the system is going to be special. We have the right Coach, development staff and GM to make it happen so I'm glad we are taking the risk - even if it means watching bad passes, shots and ball handling while the team figures out how to make it work and who to make it work with.

Great post, I feel pretty much the same way on just about every point. I was also a Suggs stan all over these forums, but I can see what the team is doing and actually watching Scottie play has me more excited, not less.

I was really looking forward to seeing how he'd mix into the regular season rotation pre-Summer League, but after 3 games, I'd love to watch him down at the 905 playing 32mpg+ and just maximize his opportunity to handle the ball, facilitate and shoot without remorse.

same - wanted Suggs too but I am definitely seeing the intrigue of him developing. beam me up Scottie i'm part of the Barnes brigade now.

that move when he went right to left, shoot left and then went right, up for a jumper over Kuminga, thats a pro move and that made me wet my pants a little.

oh man i can see the TurboZone sigs now

[Mikistan]

Watch on YouTube

This guy might be my new fav player. PJ Tucker 2.0

It is unreal how wide he is. Like a widescreen tv.

Should we call him 16:9?

man the last step back 3 against the missmatch slower big is so nice, he just casually steps back in rythm nothing over-extering and shooting an efficient 3

[lolwut]

Having watched every minute of all 3 games, I don't get why people are being so negative.

This group of guys had a bad second game, talked it over and put in some great defensive effort and just dominated the hyped up Houston Summer League team.

It was also the first game where "positionless basketball" looked pretty functional without Flynn on the court to organize things.

Precious has been great but with more time with the team, I hope he starts looking to pass.

Ish is the best player on the team in my books so far. Love him coming off the bench for us to cause opposing scorers fits and try to throw them off rhythm.

I don't get why people are down on Scottie, unless they are just watching highlights and looking at boxscores. He does so many things well for a kid his age.

If you look at my draft posts, I'm a hard Sugg stan and still am. After yesterday's game I can see what the Raptors are going for team building wise and why Scottie was the pick. We are trying to innovate and get weird. We are asking guys who don't normally have the freedom to be versatile to experiment and play through mistakes.

I love the progress I'm seeing from the group with one exception: David Johnson. I was most excited by his pick up on draft night but the same thing that kept him out of the first round is making him seem like a waste of space on a 2 way deal. The man just spaces out and stands around, watching the game being played around him. His effort level just isn't fitting in with the rest of the group.

I'm really excited by the way the Raps want to play this year and there are going to be bumps and a lot of failure along the way. If this is a development year for a new positionless system which puts us in a position to grab another player who would thrive in a system like that in next years draft (and there are more than a few) - the time is now to do it.

Scottie fits that team vision better than Suggs. I'm going to hate watching him go Alpha playing for the Magic. But the Raps team and system has the chance to be more special than Suggs the individual player.

That is what is making this Summer League team fun for me. We are on to something special, but it isn't a star. It's a system we are finding the best players for. I think the system is going to be special. We have the right Coach, development staff and GM to make it happen so I'm glad we are taking the risk - even if it means watching bad passes, shots and ball handling while the team figures out how to make it work and who to make it work with.

Great post, I feel pretty much the same way on just about every point. I was also a Suggs stan all over these forums, but I can see what the team is doing and actually watching Scottie play has me more excited, not less.

I was really looking forward to seeing how he'd mix into the regular season rotation pre-Summer League, but after 3 games, I'd love to watch him down at the 905 playing 32mpg+ and just maximize his opportunity to handle the ball, facilitate and shoot without remorse.

Evolution of the game?

[Young_Buc]

Next year depth chart

Birch/Precious/Gillespe
Pascal/Boucher/Barnes
OG/Ish/Barnes
GTJ/Dragic
FVV/Flynn

Elite bench but Pascal/OG are the only starting level players in our 5 imo. If we can trade for another permanent piece were sitting well.

Also a top 4 draft pick as 12th man... if you're not the defending champion pistons, hurts.

[yyzsportsjunky]

I will say, I remember watching Melo in summer league last year, and being underwhelmed. Scottie will be fine, scary worst case scenario is corey brewer (please no), likely utility is someone like thad young maybe, high end are the elite two-way wings. The thing that bothers me, is Suggs was right there, a perfect fit...

[yyzsportsjunky]

Next year depth chart

Birch/Precious/Gillespe
Pascal/Boucher/Barnes
OG/Ish/Barnes
GTJ/Dragic
FVV/Flynn

Elite bench but Pascal/OG are the only starting level players in our 5 imo. If we can trade for another permanent piece were sitting well.

Also a top 4 draft pick as 12th man... if you're not the defending champion pistons, hurts.

FVV is a borderline all-star, he's definitely starting level... also, pascal gonna miss the first 10 games or so.

[garbagnani]

Having watched every minute of all 3 games, I don't get why people are being so negative.

This group of guys had a bad second game, talked it over and put in some great defensive effort and just dominated the hyped up Houston Summer League team.

It was also the first game where "positionless basketball" looked pretty functional without Flynn on the court to organize things.

Precious has been great but with more time with the team, I hope he starts looking to pass.

Ish is the best player on the team in my books so far. Love him coming off the bench for us to cause opposing scorers fits and try to throw them off rhythm.

I don't get why people are down on Scottie, unless they are just watching highlights and looking at boxscores. He does so many things well for a kid his age.

If you look at my draft posts, I'm a hard Sugg stan and still am. After yesterday's game I can see what the Raptors are going for team building wise and why Scottie was the pick. We are trying to innovate and get weird. We are asking guys who don't normally have the freedom to be versatile to experiment and play through mistakes.

I love the progress I'm seeing from the group with one exception: David Johnson. I was most excited by his pick up on draft night but the same thing that kept him out of the first round is making him seem like a waste of space on a 2 way deal. The man just spaces out and stands around, watching the game being played around him. His effort level just isn't fitting in with the rest of the group.

I'm really excited by the way the Raps want to play this year and there are going to be bumps and a lot of failure along the way. If this is a development year for a new positionless system which puts us in a position to grab another player who would thrive in a system like that in next years draft (and there are more than a few) - the time is now to do it.

Scottie fits that team vision better than Suggs. I'm going to hate watching him go Alpha playing for the Magic. But the Raps team and system has the chance to be more special than Suggs the individual player.

That is what is making this Summer League team fun for me. We are on to something special, but it isn't a star. It's a system we are finding the best players for. I think the system is going to be special. We have the right Coach, development staff and GM to make it happen so I'm glad we are taking the risk - even if it means watching bad passes, shots and ball handling while the team figures out how to make it work and who to make it work with.

Great post, I feel pretty much the same way on just about every point. I was also a Suggs stan all over these forums, but I can see what the team is doing and actually watching Scottie play has me more excited, not less.

I was really looking forward to seeing how he'd mix into the regular season rotation pre-Summer League, but after 3 games, I'd love to watch him down at the 905 playing 32mpg+ and just maximize his opportunity to handle the ball, facilitate and shoot without remorse.

Evolution of the game?

Bc was ahead of his time.
Introduced the world to big men that can’t and burner accounts.

[HumbleRen]

I really like Barnes defence, I think I’m more comfortable with him guarding 3-4’s though. 1-2’s will demolish him with their lateral quickness lol.

Offensively though, I don’t see how any can be okay with how raw he is. He legit doesn’t know what to do if there isn’t a clear drive to the basket.

You can see him thinking of what to do when he does drive in and it usually just ends up in a charge or non skilled hail mary in hopes of a ref bailing him out.

It might be years until he becomes a fluid enough athlete to above average on offence.

[NotMyKawhi]

Great post, I feel pretty much the same way on just about every point. I was also a Suggs stan all over these forums, but I can see what the team is doing and actually watching Scottie play has me more excited, not less.

I was really looking forward to seeing how he'd mix into the regular season rotation pre-Summer League, but after 3 games, I'd love to watch him down at the 905 playing 32mpg+ and just maximize his opportunity to handle the ball, facilitate and shoot without remorse.

Evolution of the game?

Bc was ahead of his time.
Introduced the world to big men that can’t and burner accounts.

And he gave us Lowry, DD(got us Kawhi), JV(Got us Gasol), Ross(got us ibaka) BC is underrated for what he did here in Toronto imo

Gets judged way too much for the Bargnani pick when in reality, that draft sucked. BC gets a bad wrap around here

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

[Backcountry]

Evolution of the game?

Bc was ahead of his time.
Introduced the world to big men that can’t and burner accounts.

And he gave us Lowry, DD(got us Kawhi), JV(Got us Gasol), Ross(got us ibaka) BC is underrated for what he did here in Toronto imo

Gets judged way too much for the Bargnani pick when in reality, that draft sucked. BC gets a bad wrap around here

For sure BC built a foundation, but all you've highlighted here is that he picked up a bunch of guys who needed to be moved (along with other pieces) in order to bring in players to help us actually win.

[alpngso]

Want to see more minutes from guys that have not played much. Champagnie, Mahmoud and others

[vi3t]

I will say, I remember watching Melo in summer league last year, and being underwhelmed. Scottie will be fine, scary worst case scenario is corey brewer (please no), likely utility is someone like thad young maybe, high end are the elite two-way wings. The thing that bothers me, is Suggs was right there, a perfect fit...

lamelo? there wasn't a summer league last yr

[StopitLeo]

Watch on YouTube

This guy might be my new fav player. PJ Tucker 2.0

It is unreal how wide he is. Like a widescreen tv.

Should we call him 16:9?

These nicknames are killing me.

Rexdale (It started as Rexdale Bruno but that's a bit harsh)
Previous
16:9

[Raps in 4]

I thought OG would never average anywhere close to 15ppg and he proved me wrong this year. After seeing the improvements he made in his game last year, I now believe 20ppg is a possibility.

While I agree we get a sense of what kind of player someone is by their 4th and 5th year, the idea that they are finished products at that point is just not true. People mentioned Butler, his best year was actually last season. Career high in rebounds, assists, steals and fg%. He might've averaged slightly more points in Chicago but he did so on significantly worse efficiency. The same can be said for Lebron, Wade, Dirk, KD, Kobe and so many other star players. Players definitely learn to be more efficient as they get older which is why if you look at their advanced stats, their best years were when they were in their late 20's not when they were 23-24 years old.

It seems like the sweet spot is 27-29 when a lot of superstars put up their best year.

Butler's first all-star season was at 25, his 4th year in the league.

That season he averaged 20/6/4 on 58% TS.

The following season he put up 21/5/5 on 56% TS.

Last season he averaged 22/7/7 on 61% TS.

That's still the same player. He got craftier with more experience, as everyone does, but we knew who Butler was at 25. His PPG has fluctuated up and down between 19-24 and his TS% between 56-61% from 2013-2021, which is just variance (he hasn't been steadily improving).

[pilkoids]

Watch on YouTube

Man, I wonder how Fred would feel about what Bobby said at the end there referencing picking Scottie and how he fits with the starting lineup - "Let's have all 5 guys look like him"

[Brinbe]

this dude wainwright has a keith lee build lol. glad he's making the most of this opportunity.

[lolwut]

Watch on YouTube

This guy might be my new fav player. PJ Tucker 2.0

It is unreal how wide he is. Like a widescreen tv.

Should we call him 16:9?

I present to you... Ishmail Wainwide

[Clutch0z24]

I am excited more to see What Precious will become...I like Barnes as a prospect but he is 2 years away from being even a decent offensive player...

Precious was hitting 3s, Is a good rim Finisher, Has a decent Handle, Rebounds good, Good Defender Looks pretty polished on the offensive end....

Precious is only a year older than Barnes at 21 so it will be fun to see how He Develops as a player for us....Scottie is really good defensively which is fun but his offense will be lacking for a bit here ...Personally instead of thinking we just got the 4th pick in Barnes my mindset is we got 2 lotto picks with Barnes/Precious this year

Watch on YouTube

Hes intriguing