The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[WaltFrazier]

Despite the loss, Suggs is special. He has the magical it factor, and presence

[Son Goku 25]

This Jerry Springer guy just made this draft 10-15 deep.

[Jcity08]

Read on Twitter

[Psubs]

Read on Twitter

Also ZERO turnovers.

[HeadtopChunes]

Read on Twitter

Also ZERO turnovers.

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

[Psubs]

Read on Twitter

Also ZERO turnovers.

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

I would put him late 1st ahead of someone like Cameron Thomas.

I think every team 20-30 could use Butler.

[Dalek]

Congratulations to Baylor for winning, but please Masai and Bobby do not draft Davion Mitchell with a lottery pick. It is so easy to see a college game and think a muscular 22 looks great. Last year Mitchell would have went undrafted.

Suggs looked elite at moments but quiet in others. Once he is in the NBA and playing with great players he will shine.

Yeah definitely steer clear of a guy who worked his ass off to become a potential lottery pick - you don't want those hard-working types bringing down your franchise. (There are certainly things to critique about his game, but knocking the guy for vast improvement makes no sense to me).

Not to denigrate a guy who has clearly made improvements, but my comment had more to do that he doesn't have along track record of success as a high level shooter. As other posters mentioned, he has a low freethrow percentage and before this year he didn't shoot over 40% from three. I will admit that sometimes players just figure stuff out and end up great pros, but it took him three years to get proficient at the college line, and now he has to adjust again to the NBA three point line. That is not easy.

Teams have time to work the kid out and see if he is real or not. If some team takes him high they may think he is a great complimentary piece. Personally, I think the Raps need to be riskier and aim for a higher ceiling prospect.

If Toronto keep improving, we may end up picking 10-15 range. Not ideal, but there are some guys that might be there that to me are great upside plays. Kai Jones would be a steal in that range, as well as Bouknight. The less obvious guy that I just love his game is Josh Giddey. The guy seems to be close to a triple double every game now in NBL. Only 18 and it was reported that he is shooting 19-45 from three in his last 11 games. He is a high level passer that he can bend defenses a lot like Lamelo Ball.

[HeadtopChunes]

Also ZERO turnovers.

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

I would put him late 1st ahead of someone like Cameron Thomas.

I think every team 20-30 could use Butler.

I haven’t done my board yet but probably have him somewhere similar if not a little higher

[Mark_83]

Also ZERO turnovers.

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

I would put him late 1st ahead of someone like Cameron Thomas.

I think every team 20-30 could use Butler.

Depending on need I would take Butler anywhere after the lottery. He's the best PG in the draft after Cunningham imo. Reminds me of Jeff Teague.

[Psubs]

Congratulations to Baylor for winning, but please Masai and Bobby do not draft Davion Mitchell with a lottery pick. It is so easy to see a college game and think a muscular 22 looks great. Last year Mitchell would have went undrafted.

Suggs looked elite at moments but quiet in others. Once he is in the NBA and playing with great players he will shine.

Yeah definitely steer clear of a guy who worked his ass off to become a potential lottery pick - you don't want those hard-working types bringing down your franchise. (There are certainly things to critique about his game, but knocking the guy for vast improvement makes no sense to me).

Not to denigrate a guy who has clearly made improvements, but my comment had more to do that he doesn't have along track record of success as a high level shooter. As other posters mentioned, he has a low freethrow percentage and before this year he didn't shoot over 40% from three. I will admit that sometimes players just figure stuff out and end up great pros, but it took him three years to get proficient at the college line, and now he has to adjust again to the NBA three point line. That is not easy.

Teams have time to work the kid out and see if he is real or not. If some team takes him high they may think he is a great complimentary piece. Personally, I think the Raps need to be riskier and aim for a higher ceiling prospect.

If Toronto keep improving, we may end up picking 10-15 range. Not ideal, but there are some guys that might be there that to me are great upside plays. Kai Jones would be a steal in that range, as well as Bouknight. The less obvious guy that I just love his game is Josh Giddey. The guy seems to be close to a triple double every game now in NBL. Only 18 and it was reported that he is shooting 19-45 from three in his last 11 games. He is a high level passer that he can bend defenses a lot like Lamelo Ball.

Giddey would be a gamble. He could be a nice complement to FVV. Maybe guard SF's but play more PG on offense.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/news/nbl-next-stars-how-does-josh-giddey-stack-up-to-lamelo-balls-rookie-season-in-the-nbl/18s5gdm8e3sic15imiwlza8xzr

He could start with the 905 like Flynn did. Might need 2 seasons. Raptors don't need him to be a scorer for a while. Just create (keep the to's low) and be a passable defender.

I guess his floor is Patrick McCaw and his ceiling is Lamelo.

If not getting a top 7 pick, I'd consider trading down with a 2nd for two 1st picks.

[Psubs]

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

I would put him late 1st ahead of someone like Cameron Thomas.

I think every team 20-30 could use Butler.

Depending on need I would take Butler anywhere after the lottery. He's the best PG in the draft after Cunningham imo. Reminds me of Jeff Teague.

I really think Chauncey Billups.

[Indeed]

Yeah definitely steer clear of a guy who worked his ass off to become a potential lottery pick - you don't want those hard-working types bringing down your franchise. (There are certainly things to critique about his game, but knocking the guy for vast improvement makes no sense to me).

Not to denigrate a guy who has clearly made improvements, but my comment had more to do that he doesn't have along track record of success as a high level shooter. As other posters mentioned, he has a low freethrow percentage and before this year he didn't shoot over 40% from three. I will admit that sometimes players just figure stuff out and end up great pros, but it took him three years to get proficient at the college line, and now he has to adjust again to the NBA three point line. That is not easy.

Teams have time to work the kid out and see if he is real or not. If some team takes him high they may think he is a great complimentary piece. Personally, I think the Raps need to be riskier and aim for a higher ceiling prospect.

If Toronto keep improving, we may end up picking 10-15 range. Not ideal, but there are some guys that might be there that to me are great upside plays. Kai Jones would be a steal in that range, as well as Bouknight. The less obvious guy that I just love his game is Josh Giddey. The guy seems to be close to a triple double every game now in NBL. Only 18 and it was reported that he is shooting 19-45 from three in his last 11 games. He is a high level passer that he can bend defenses a lot like Lamelo Ball.

Giddey would be a gamble. He could be a nice complement to FVV. Maybe guard SF's but play more PG on offense.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/news/nbl-next-stars-how-does-josh-giddey-stack-up-to-lamelo-balls-rookie-season-in-the-nbl/18s5gdm8e3sic15imiwlza8xzr

He could start with the 905 like Flynn did. Might need 2 seasons. Raptors don't need him to be a scorer for a while. Just create (keep the to's low) and be a passable defender.

I guess his floor is Patrick McCaw and his ceiling is Lamelo.

If not getting a top 7 pick, I'd consider trading down with a 2nd for two 1st picks.

Taking Kia Jones at 8 or 9 wouldn't be too bad for me, even though, I prefer to take a SF size SG, who probably has more impact on the offensive end than a big due to ball penetration.

Meanwhile, lottery talent really makes a bigger difference than mid-1st, and we might get a mid-1st next year anyway, so I wonder if we really want to trade down and have so many rookies. We also got two mid-2nd, and it could fill a C (eg. Questa, Isaiah Mobley) and a 3+D forward, and what else we need if we already have a PG and SG drafted last year?

[bon]

Read on Twitter

Also ZERO turnovers.

probably has the best handle in the draft, getting no love somehow though

Yeah there were a lot of mentions of Mitchell ITT and not a lot about his better teammate Jared Butler. Dude is good

[DreamTeam09]

Congratulations to Baylor for winning, but please Masai and Bobby do not draft Davion Mitchell with a lottery pick. It is so easy to see a college game and think a muscular 22 looks great. Last year Mitchell would have went undrafted.

Suggs looked elite at moments but quiet in others. Once he is in the NBA and playing with great players he will shine.

Yeah definitely steer clear of a guy who worked his ass off to become a potential lottery pick - you don't want those hard-working types bringing down your franchise. (There are certainly things to critique about his game, but knocking the guy for vast improvement makes no sense to me).

Not to denigrate a guy who has clearly made improvements, but my comment had more to do that he doesn't have along track record of success as a high level shooter. As other posters mentioned, he has a low freethrow percentage and before this year he didn't shoot over 40% from three. I will admit that sometimes players just figure stuff out and end up great pros, but it took him three years to get proficient at the college line, and now he has to adjust again to the NBA three point line. That is not easy.

Teams have time to work the kid out and see if he is real or not. If some team takes him high they may think he is a great complimentary piece. Personally, I think the Raps need to be riskier and aim for a higher ceiling prospect.

If Toronto keep improving, we may end up picking 10-15 range. Not ideal, but there are some guys that might be there that to me are great upside plays. Kai Jones would be a steal in that range, as well as Bouknight. The less obvious guy that I just love his game is Josh Giddey. The guy seems to be close to a triple double every game now in NBL. Only 18 and it was reported that he is shooting 19-45 from three in his last 11 games. He is a high level passer that he can bend defenses a lot like Lamelo Ball.

Quick Youtube analysis on the players you mentioned.

Kai Jones,

I like his energy and motor. Legit bigman size at 6'11 7'1 wingspan 218-220lbs with room to get bigger but is strong right now. I wish he had more polish to his offensive game, which I think lowers his ceiling. He does have some offensive tools in his bag tho. I seen some crossovers at the 3pt line taking bigs off the dribble. I seen some euro steps into finishes and dimes for teammates. Seen some 3s and and some step backs/side steps jumpers. He has the ability to play defense on the perimeter, stays in his stance and gets low, that's what is going to make him and keep him in the NBA. I don't see star, but someone who can play and grow with us from day one. I wouldn't be mad at him.

Josh Giddy

Wild card to me, and when you have a wild card player, I look at their swagger to see if they will translate. He has confidence you can tell in his game, and that might sell me. 6'8 SF 6'8 wingspan with a Point-Fwd type of game. We need one of those players to take the ball out of FVV hands and our team operates much better when we have multiple players out there who can create something. We have way too much of Pascal bringing the ball up the court, and while he can, and its a strength of his, it'll be even better for the team if the defense doesn't have to focus on Pascal as a facilitator. Josh jumper doesn't give me the confidence I'd like from someone shooting the ball, but his shot broken broken. He keeps it high and follows through. However much he can defend is how much of an impact he'll have. If he can guard 3s and 2s then you might have something really special on hands. I'd have to see him in workouts before I give the stamp of approval, but he should be an option for us.

James Bouknight

By far my favorite player outside of the top 5. 6'5 SG whos a 3 level bucket getter. I wish I wish he was a little taller, but if he was little taller he'd be in the top 5 for sure. He's a player I'd draft, sit down with on draft night and say "We need you to be a star!! Do you wanna be a star? well we need you to be a star and its on you and us to get you to be a star" SG is the hardest position to be a star at but he has all the tools. He just has to lock up, but he'd be my target and our starting SG next year no matter what.


Any other 6'6-6'8 SG/SF prospects who are viable for us? We need another wing or a 5.

[Kurtz]

You guys are out to lunch. Davion Mitchell is going top 10 and likely won't even be available when we're picking. He's going to make all star teams.

Other than his age what exactly is it about his game that people don't like? He has a great NBA body. He's super explosive off the bounce. He can shoot off the dribble, including step backs. He's a decent play maker. He's a terrific defender, like incredible actually. It's Donovan Mitchell lite crossed with Jrue Holiday.

You may be right about Mitchell going top-10, but I would actually argue the opposite of what you're arguing.

You see Mitchell being physically jacked as a positive for his future...I see it as a ceiling cap.

When we view draftees' upside, we evaluate their future progress - how do we think they will improve 1) skill level 2) physical maturity. For college guys who are already jacked, improvement via #2 is off the table - so their upside is limited only to #1.

Call it the Joey Graham/Rafael Araujo effect. Guys dominate in college because of their physical maturity, but take that advantage away in the NBA, and it's tough times.

I put Kuminga in the same bucket as Mitchell. To me, the elite tier in this draft is the top-4, not the top-5.

[tdotrep2]

i wouldnt mind giddy if fvv actually was willing to play off ball, but he'll want to run point

[Indeed]

You guys are out to lunch. Davion Mitchell is going top 10 and likely won't even be available when we're picking. He's going to make all star teams.

Other than his age what exactly is it about his game that people don't like? He has a great NBA body. He's super explosive off the bounce. He can shoot off the dribble, including step backs. He's a decent play maker. He's a terrific defender, like incredible actually. It's Donovan Mitchell lite crossed with Jrue Holiday.

You may be right about Mitchell going top-10, but I would actually argue the opposite of what you're arguing.

You see Mitchell being physically jacked as a positive for his future...I see it as a ceiling cap.

When we view draftees' upside, we evaluate their future progress - how do we think they will improve 1) skill level 2) physical maturity. For college guys who are already jacked, improvement via #2 is off the table - so their upside is limited only to #1.

Call it the Joey Graham/Rafael Araujo effect. Guys dominate in college because of their physical maturity, but take that advantage away in the NBA, and it's tough times.

I put Kuminga in the same bucket as Mitchell. To me, the elite tier in this draft is the top-4, not the top-5.

I think the reason of Michell being ranked higher by scout is his quick first step instead of his size, which will probably translate, but also depends if he can improve his advanced handle to get better misdirection. I think the biggest question for people is his shooting.

[BoyzNTheHood]

You guys are out to lunch. Davion Mitchell is going top 10 and likely won't even be available when we're picking. He's going to make all star teams.

Other than his age what exactly is it about his game that people don't like? He has a great NBA body. He's super explosive off the bounce. He can shoot off the dribble, including step backs. He's a decent play maker. He's a terrific defender, like incredible actually. It's Donovan Mitchell lite crossed with Jrue Holiday.

You may be right about Mitchell going top-10, but I would actually argue the opposite of what you're arguing.

You see Mitchell being physically jacked as a positive for his future...I see it as a ceiling cap.

When we view draftees' upside, we evaluate their future progress - how do we think they will improve 1) skill level 2) physical maturity. For college guys who are already jacked, improvement via #2 is off the table - so their upside is limited only to #1.

Call it the Joey Graham/Rafael Araujo effect. Guys dominate in college because of their physical maturity, but take that advantage away in the NBA, and it's tough times.

I put Kuminga in the same bucket as Mitchell. To me, the elite tier in this draft is the top-4, not the top-5.

Kuminga was playing in the G-League with grown men.

[gerrit4]

As someone who doesn't really watch much college hoops, I get the concerns about Mitchell, but I loved watching him play. He's the type of guy I'd totally love to cheer for. He reminded me of a rich man's Patrick Beverly...

Suggs is clearly special. Considering how much Baylor was locking down Gonzaga, and the struggles Suggs had in the first quarter (foul trouble, no driving lanes), he really found a way to persevere.

[HeadtopChunes]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?