Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[HumbleRen]

Think someone on his team needs to show him footage of his great games.

Tell him look at how low he gets with his dribble and how much more success he has doing that vs his upright stiff dribbling stance.

[Tha Cynic]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

If he’s able to keep the same numbers but with 60% TS, that’s a top 20 player to me.

I’m not just sure he’ll ever be an efficient player, atleast not as a #1.

We were arguing Siakam was a top 15 player while posting 55% TS. If Barnes is posting 60% TS while maintaining his other impacts, he's at min a top 15 player. The thing with Barnes is he's as effective as his peers even while being very inefficient outside of the midrange. If he ever just stays efficient, he's becoming an all-nba player. Heck he was close last year while having a mediocre TS%. It's why I am being patient as I see the slow progress.

Barnes impacts the game in multiple ways and a slight improvement to his offense is going to be huge vs others.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

If he’s able to keep the same numbers but with 60% TS, that’s a top 20 player to me.

I’m not just sure he’ll ever be an efficient player, atleast not as a #1.

We were arguing Siakam was a top 15 player while posting 55% TS. If Barnes is posting 60% TS while maintaining his other impacts, he's at min a top 15 player. The thing with Barnes is he's as effective as his peers even while being very inefficient outside of the midrange. If he ever just stays efficient, he's becoming an all-nba player. Heck he was close last year while having a mediocre TS%. It's why I am being patient as I see the slow progress.

Barnes impacts the game in multiple ways and a slight improvement to his offense is going to be huge vs others.

That was some Raptors fans arguing that. Nobody else was saying Siakam was a top 15 player or even close to it lol.

People were calling me idiots in this section for saying Donavan Mitchell is vastly better than Siakam. People are homers for Raps players here, it doesn’t mean much.

Also the league is much deeper than it was back when Randle and Siakam were making all nba teams. I do think his TS needs to be much better to be in those convos.

[Vampirate]

Think someone on his team needs to show him footage of his great games.

Tell him look at how low he gets with his dribble and how much more success he has doing that vs his upright stiff dribbling stance.

Old habits likely die hard.

I still think he needs a step back game, get into his shots faster etc.

I wish he could just drive into the FT range pull, drive into the FT range pull. Do that fast, consistently enough and defenses will scramble harder to defend it.

He's too slow and a bit predictable into getting into his shots.

[tsherkin]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

If he gets his TS% to 60%, I think we all have to be supremely thrilled with him.

The problem is that he hasn't yet consistently shown the ability to manage 57% (in fact, hasn't yet managed that on a season, coming closest at 56.6%), which leaves him perpetually below league average. He's hovering around his career average (54.7%) so far this season (54.5%), which is pretty disastrous with league average hovering around 57.4% (down, even, from the past couple seasons).

He does enough that he's a useful player, and in this particular season where we aren't really good at all, it makes sense to let him experiment and see if anything clicks. We're seeing some potential, some development, but less in the way of impact results. After this season, it's probably going to be time to start shaping his scoring possessions and volume with a little more intent unless we see something substantive. That is, of course, provided that we have anything to work with next season. If not, well, he kind of accidentally makes for an interesting tank commander. Can't sensibly dick with his shooting/possession volume if there's no one better to take it from him, after all, so at that point, we might as well just keep letting him try to incrementally develop.

Remember, 60% would be +2.6% rTS. That would actually be very good. That's pretty far from his reach at the moment, though, given his FT%, 3P% and FTr, proportion of shots at the rim, and how he's like 1% above league-average FG% as well. It's a systemic issue with everything about scoring which causes him issues right now, even though we all know he does pretty well at raw FG% in the key and he's been showing us some mid-range shooting. He has no meaningful competitive advantage as a scorer yet, he's just the Glimmer Man, flashing hope and potential irregularly. As a scorer. Of course, his rebounding, defense and even his playmaking are compelling reasons to keep working with him and see what happens.

[TheGeneral99]

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

[tsherkin]

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

It's true. And hopefully, as odd as it sounds, the eye stuff is at the root of at least some of his shooting woes. Because that can be addressed and maybe help him normalize, you know?

[Vampirate]

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

It's true. And hopefully, as odd as it sounds, the eye stuff is at the root of at least some of his shooting woes. Because that can be addressed and maybe help him normalize, you know?

Hate to say it but I kind of doubt that, wouldn't that be affecting his mid range shooting from 10-16ft which he seems to have developed over last off season?

[Scase]

If he’s able to keep the same numbers but with 60% TS, that’s a top 20 player to me.

I’m not just sure he’ll ever be an efficient player, atleast not as a #1.

We were arguing Siakam was a top 15 player while posting 55% TS. If Barnes is posting 60% TS while maintaining his other impacts, he's at min a top 15 player. The thing with Barnes is he's as effective as his peers even while being very inefficient outside of the midrange. If he ever just stays efficient, he's becoming an all-nba player. Heck he was close last year while having a mediocre TS%. It's why I am being patient as I see the slow progress.

Barnes impacts the game in multiple ways and a slight improvement to his offense is going to be huge vs others.

That was some Raptors fans arguing that. Nobody else was saying Siakam was a top 15 player or even close to it lol.

People were calling me idiots in this section for saying Donavan Mitchell is vastly better than Siakam. People are homers for Raps players here, it doesn’t mean much.

Also the league is much deeper than it was back when Randle and Siakam were making all nba teams. I do think his TS needs to be much better to be in those convos.

I remember people calling me dumb for saying Jaylen Brown is a better player. Most raps fans are just clueless homers that have never seen an NBA game without this team in it.

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

Someone needs to drop kick him in the head about his shot selection still. He had Pritchard on him multiple times and was not backing him down, but then you see him with KP/Hauser on him, and he takes them to the basket. Makes no damn sense lol.

His 3p selection last night was good, they didn't fall, but I'd say only one was a "bad" shot.

His pumpfake and drive into the paint with Brown on him is the exact reason I've been saying he should be focusing on the mid range all year.

He's not even that good at the MR, but because he was knocking them down last night, the defence had to react and it leads to a way better shot. He drew 3-4 defenders just from that move, RJ was open ATB, Mitchell open in the corner, if Jak wasn't useless outside of 5ft he would have been open in the corner as well. So eventually that will open up so many more opportunities for him to pass as well.

This needs to be the focus for the remainder of the season, no excuses.

[tsherkin]

Hate to say it but I kind of doubt that, wouldn't that be affecting his mid range shooting from 10-16ft which he seems to have developed over last off season?

I don't disagree with you, I was just trying to add some optimism because a lot of my post was a little pessimistic, heh.

[Vampirate]

We were arguing Siakam was a top 15 player while posting 55% TS. If Barnes is posting 60% TS while maintaining his other impacts, he's at min a top 15 player. The thing with Barnes is he's as effective as his peers even while being very inefficient outside of the midrange. If he ever just stays efficient, he's becoming an all-nba player. Heck he was close last year while having a mediocre TS%. It's why I am being patient as I see the slow progress.

Barnes impacts the game in multiple ways and a slight improvement to his offense is going to be huge vs others.

That was some Raptors fans arguing that. Nobody else was saying Siakam was a top 15 player or even close to it lol.

People were calling me idiots in this section for saying Donavan Mitchell is vastly better than Siakam. People are homers for Raps players here, it doesn’t mean much.

Also the league is much deeper than it was back when Randle and Siakam were making all nba teams. I do think his TS needs to be much better to be in those convos.

I remember people calling me dumb for saying Jaylen Brown is a better player. Most raps fans are just clueless homers that have never seen an NBA game without this team in it.

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

Someone needs to drop kick him in the head about his shot selection still. He had Pritchard on him multiple times and was not backing him down, but then you see him with KP/Hauser on him, and he takes them to the basket. Makes no damn sense lol.

His 3p selection last night was good, they didn't fall, but I'd say only one was a "bad" shot.

His pumpfake and drive into the paint with Brown on him is the exact reason I've been saying he should be focusing on the mid range all year.

He's not even that good at the MR, but because he was knocking them down last night, the defence had to react and it leads to a way better shot. He drew 3-4 defenders just from that move, RJ was open ATB, Mitchell open in the corner, if Jak wasn't useless outside of 5ft he would have been open in the corner as well. So eventually that will open up so many more opportunities for him to pass as well.

This needs to be the focus for the remainder of the season, no excuses.

In both the 3P and mid range, he really needs to incorporate a step back into his game. He just looks too robotic/predictable with his motions imo. He also takes too long to get into his shot too.


And yes, he's pulled off the step back middy before. Imo, he needs to try and catch the defender in the air to go for an and 1.

[Raps in 4]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

If he’s able to keep the same numbers but with 60% TS, that’s a top 20 player to me.

I’m not just sure he’ll ever be an efficient player, atleast not as a #1.

Yep. That's Kyle Lowry impact.

[gbball]

Scottie Barnes is such an interesting player. He's clearly improved skill-wise and in terms of approach. The highs and lows aren't as extreme. He's currently a very good player, who still has a very long way to go. He's nowhere close to reaching his ceiling. He's not getting there quickly, but maybe he'll have breakthroughs here and there along the way.

It's nice to see him find ways to be effective without 'blow by/dunk over you' athleticism. But there's still so much room for growth.

I notice he lets himself get pushed off his line too easily on drives...it's partially due to his long legs and high center of gravity, but if he gets low and uses his footwork and strength to control his momentum better he'll see a night and day difference in his ability to finish under control at the rim. RJ is masterful at this, with the way he plans his steps and loads up to prepare for contact...then he has elite touch on his left hand layups. Scottie doesn't have the persistence, footwork or touch that RJ does, but hopefully he can get there.

Right now, Scottie doesn't have a spot anywhere on the floor where you can say with confidence, he's scoring from here. From 3pt shots to midrange to layups, even dunks it's still a bit of a crapshoot as to whether he can score consistently or not. His midrange and post offense is currently the most promising and consistent...but I think he has so much room to grow using footwork, hesitations, and deception/counters to get layups and dunks. He's shows flashes which is exciting.

I think Scottie ultimately becomes a really good player, but it's going to take him time. He doesn't come across as a gifted learner, so he needs lots of reps and he'll have to improve based on work ethic and having a good trainer. Half the battle for him is just learning what his go to advantages are and using it more consistently.

[Scase]

That was some Raptors fans arguing that. Nobody else was saying Siakam was a top 15 player or even close to it lol.

People were calling me idiots in this section for saying Donavan Mitchell is vastly better than Siakam. People are homers for Raps players here, it doesn’t mean much.

Also the league is much deeper than it was back when Randle and Siakam were making all nba teams. I do think his TS needs to be much better to be in those convos.

I remember people calling me dumb for saying Jaylen Brown is a better player. Most raps fans are just clueless homers that have never seen an NBA game without this team in it.

Very impressed with the progression of his mid-range game.

Now hopefully he can actually stay healthy and showcase what he can do for a decent stretch of games. Dude has been hampered by injuries all season.

Someone needs to drop kick him in the head about his shot selection still. He had Pritchard on him multiple times and was not backing him down, but then you see him with KP/Hauser on him, and he takes them to the basket. Makes no damn sense lol.

His 3p selection last night was good, they didn't fall, but I'd say only one was a "bad" shot.

His pumpfake and drive into the paint with Brown on him is the exact reason I've been saying he should be focusing on the mid range all year.

He's not even that good at the MR, but because he was knocking them down last night, the defence had to react and it leads to a way better shot. He drew 3-4 defenders just from that move, RJ was open ATB, Mitchell open in the corner, if Jak wasn't useless outside of 5ft he would have been open in the corner as well. So eventually that will open up so many more opportunities for him to pass as well.

This needs to be the focus for the remainder of the season, no excuses.

In both the 3P and mid range, he really needs to incorporate a step back into his game. He just looks too robotic/predictable with his motions imo. He also takes too long to get into his shot too.


And yes, he's pulled off the step back middy before. Imo, he needs to try and catch the defender in the air to go for an and 1.

Yeah but like I've mentioned before, he's gotta learn to crawl before he walks. You gotta be good at 3's before you incorporate step backs, that just adds another variable into the equation.

[Reeko]

Think someone on his team needs to show him footage of his great games.

Tell him look at how low he gets with his dribble and how much more success he has doing that vs his upright stiff dribbling stance.

Old habits likely die hard.

I still think he needs a step back game, get into his shots faster etc.

I wish he could just drive into the FT range pull, drive into the FT range pull. Do that fast, consistently enough and defenses will scramble harder to defend it.

He's too slow and a bit predictable into getting into his shots.

That really doesn't matter for a guy as big and strong as him. A lot of the greats were very predictable and deliberate in what they were going to do and it didn't matter if the defenses knew, they still couldn't stop it. Over time though, I imagine that he will get faster as he gets more comfortable and he will develop more variations on how he gets to his shots.

[mdenny]

Fred vanvleet year 4 career <<<<<< Scottie year 4.

Fred proved to the world his gamesmanship. Scotty has shown the world his complaining face.

[mdenny]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

This is weird and not welcome here, please adjust your posting.

How weird is it?

You have an identifiable "tank advocacy community" that glorifies teenage boys. Is that not true?

Does the pro-tank community glorify or advocate for any player over the age of the 21?

So is it not factual to say that they glorify and worship teenage boys?

Bro...ain't no fanbase during the 80s and 90s talking about "let's tank for an 18 year old prospect".
.

[HiJiNX]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

This is weird and not welcome here, please adjust your posting.

How weird is it?

You have an identifiable "tank advocacy community" that glorifies teenage boys. Is that not true?

Does the pro-tank community glorify or advocate for any player over the age of the 21?

So is it not factual to say that they glorify and worship teenage boys?

Bro...ain't no fanbase during the 80s and 90s talking about "let's tank for an 18 year old prospect".
.

It’s weird because you’re implying that the interest grown men have in teenaged basketball prospects is motivated by more than basketball, namely, a deviant attraction to them. Do such people exist? I’d be surprised if they didn’t, but my bet is that crowd is in the extreme minority. What’s more likely is that many sports/NBA fans of bad teams want to get young gifted players on their teams and are invested in that endeavour so much that they devote lots of time to scouting young players and making guesses about why they would be good for the team they support.

[HiJiNX]

Fred vanvleet year 4 career <<<<<< Scottie year 4.

Fred proved to the world his gamesmanship. Scotty has shown the world his complaining face.

Trolling.

[HiJiNX]

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