Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[tsherkin]

If Garland is actually available, we should be going after him.

Yep.

Crazy Cleveland is even open to trading him...25 years old all-star for a team that just won 64 games.

Consistent health issues. This is his first year of 70+ games. Inconsistent scorer, clearly best-suited as a #2 option to a real superstar offensive player. Pretty good playmaker. Hasn't stunned in the playoffs, though obviously this year in particular, he was injured.

I think they're probably wondering what the team's ceiling is with him and Mitchell alongside one another. They need a scoring upgrade to get to that ultimate goal. He's quite good, but they are discovering the need for a real #1, I suspect.

[sidsid]

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I disagree. If you’re willing to give up a protected 1st you can get a starting C. ORL has a glut of C’s and you could probably pry one of WCJ or Bitadze away. DAL will probably be looking to move a big. If we are willing to use the MLE there are also FA options:

Lopez
Capela
Adams
Horford

If we are dead set on Maluach at 9 then we could run a platoon of FA C + Maluach and play some minutes with Barnes or Mogbo as a small ball C.

Lopez, Capela, Adams, Horford are all pretty much done. You can't expect them to play heavy minutes on a team trying to compete for a chip (which is what they are looking to do if they acquire Durant).

Maluach isn't guaranteed at 9, and even then, he is still a pretty raw rookie that will need time for development.

Then the team is left with option C, which is go to teams with depth at C, and try to make a deal, with them knowing the Raps are desperate to acquire a C, which will cost them a lot. Plus, there still needs to be matching salaries, and the Raps don't exactly have a lot of dead weight contracts, so more bodies are being moved to acquire the C.

To me, this idea of the Raps pursuing Durant is not logical at all. Causes too many issues with the team in the short term, which is really all you can depend on Durant for.

IHart is averaging 20 minutes in the OKC/Pacers series, and Scottie has got to outweigh Chet by at least 20 pounds.

An aging vet spacer is fine for the playoff rounds with the expected. You'll likely get a 3rd trad C to fight with Mogbo for the non-Scottie minutes.

The bigger problem is BI and IQ don't play enough defense and there isn't enough usage to go around to rationalize their salaries with Durant. BI is likely the easier one to move for value/position. That's where you're getting the rest of your depth at the bigs/wing positions who hopefully provide the needed D.

[sidsid]

ingram didnt come here because its Toronto, he came here cause we were willing to extend him.

Pelicans offered 4 years 160 million and BI turned it down...according to Marc Stein.

So no...he didn't come to Toronto just for the money.

I believe the thinking on Ingram's part is that he's going to revitalize his career playing here for two seasons, opt out in 2027, and sign a larger contract. In particular the Lakers are set up to have max cap space in 2027, if they don't get a player like Giannis in free agency they might be willing to throw a big contract at Ingram if he's coming off a season where he was healthy and putting up numbers. They will be desperate to get talent to put next to Luka in 2027, essentially he's looking to pull a Fred VanVleet and be a free agent at exactly the right time.

This is exactly it. This is not some sort of dream to play in Toronto. He needed someone to pay his contract increase and a team to showcase himself for a raise in a few years. He got the first part and he'll be fine landing anywhere where he can do the second part.

[ForeverTFC]

If Garland is actually available, we should be going after him.

Yep.

Crazy Cleveland is even open to trading him...25 years old all-star for a team that just won 64 games.

Consistent health issues. This is his first year of 70+ games. Inconsistent scorer, clearly best-suited as a #2 option to a real superstar offensive player. Pretty good playmaker. Hasn't stunned in the playoffs, though obviously this year in particular, he was injured.

I think they're probably wondering what the team's ceiling is with him and Mitchell alongside one another. They need a scoring upgrade to get to that ultimate goal. He's quite good, but they are discovering the need for a real #1, I suspect.

I totally understand why they'd look to trade him. But If I'm not mistaken, he was their primary playmaker last year and if there is a weakness Mitchell has, it's his playmaking. I do wonder what their offence looks like without Garland and the impact it would have on the offense/Mobley's growth.

Mitchell is definitely a real number 1 btw if you meant on the offensive end.

[Potential]

Read on Twitter

[tsherkin]

I totally understand why they'd look to trade him. But If I'm not mistaken, he was their primary playmaker last year and if there is a weakness Mitchell has, it's his playmaking.

Definitely how I see it, yep.

Mitchell is definitely a real number 1 btw if you meant on the offensive end.

I am inclined to disagree. Isn't a good enough playmaker or scorer for that, doesn't have a middle game, fades in the playoffs. He's a classic "I'm not Steph but I try to use the 3 like I am" kind of small guard. Very modern, very much not a tier-1 type of player.

He's a good scorer and a good shooter and all, a quality star, but he isn't consistently good enough to be that level of player.

[PushDaRock]

Read on Twitter

hoooooo man he smirked, it's a lock!!!

[PushDaRock]

I totally understand why they'd look to trade him. But If I'm not mistaken, he was their primary playmaker last year and if there is a weakness Mitchell has, it's his playmaking.

Definitely how I see it, yep.

Mitchell is definitely a real number 1 btw if you meant on the offensive end.

I am inclined to disagree. Isn't a good enough playmaker or scorer for that, doesn't have a middle game, fades in the playoffs. He's a classic "I'm not Steph but I try to use the 3 like I am" kind of small guard. Very modern, very much not a tier-1 type of player.

He's a good scorer and a good shooter and all, a quality star, but he isn't consistently good enough to be that level of player.

I wouldn't say he fades in the playoffs. He has a playoff career average of 28.3 ppg and a regular season career average of 24.7 ppg with less than 1% difference in TS%.

[tsherkin]

I wouldn't say he fades in the playoffs. He has a playoff career average of 28.3 ppg and a regular season career average of 24.7 ppg with less than 1% difference in TS%.

2019, 2022, 2023 his 3pt shooting certainly faded. In 2022, he bit chunks against the Mavs, just straight-up sucked. Same same against the Knicks the year after. And yeah, he was horrendous against Houston in 2019.

2020 and 2021, he was hot until he flamed out in Game 7 against the Nuggets. 2021, he beat up Memphis and the Clippers.

Pretty mid against Orlando in 2024. Struggled from 3, and that always takes the bite out of his game. He was, of course, electric against Boston for 3 games, then missed the last two, so we don't know exactly how the rest of that series would have played out.

[PushDaRock]

I wouldn't say he fades in the playoffs. He has a playoff career average of 28.3 ppg and a regular season career average of 24.7 ppg with less than 1% difference in TS%.

2019, 2022, 2023 his 3pt shooting certainly faded. In 2022, he bit chunks against the Mavs, just straight-up sucked. Same same against the Knicks the year after. And yeah, he was horrendous against Houston in 2019.

2020 and 2021, he was hot until he flamed out in Game 7 against the Nuggets. 2021, he beat up Memphis and the Clippers.

Pretty mid against Orlando in 2024. Struggled from 3, and that always takes the bite out of his game. He was, of course, electric against Boston for 3 games, then missed the last two, so we don't know exactly how the rest of that series would have played out.

You probably mean he's streaky rather than "fades" in the playoffs. When I think of someone who fades in the playoffs, I think of Derozan not someone who actually is more productive in the playoffs than the regular season.

[tsherkin]

You probably mean he's streaky rather than "fades" in the playoffs.

No, I said what I meant. I don't trust him in the playoffs because he's over-reliant on his 3 and isn't much of anything when it isn't falling.

[TimeForChange]

now that KD is going to the Spurs and Giannis is staying in Milwaukee, who's left to trade RJ for?

[PushDaRock]

You probably mean he's streaky rather than "fades" in the playoffs.

No, I said what I meant. I don't trust him in the playoffs because he's over-reliant on his 3 and isn't much of anything when it isn't falling.

Sure, but that's you having an issue with his game rather than him "fading in the playoffs". His play style is no different in the regular season and he doesn't perform any differently in the playoffs.

[Raptorfan2012]

now that KD is going to the Spurs and Giannis is staying in Milwaukee, who's left to trade RJ for?

KD is going to the Spurs? Source?

[Scase]

At that point, why bother, we have a team full of those guys.

Who do we have as good as Trae?

Same tier, not exact talent level. BI/RJ/SB/IQ are all tier 2/3 level players.

I think we'll go after a tier 2/3 player who will cost a lot less. Someone in the Trae, Lamelo, Markkennen range.

At that point, why bother, we have a team full of those guys.

We don't have many of those type of guys. Barnes is the only one who fits that range as an overall player.

I'm typically not a fan of the Trae Young, or Lamelo types, but in today's NBA those guys can actually be successful with the right type of serious and defense around them. Raptors had a defense close to what the Pacers and Knicks had in the regular season, but their offense wasn't anywhere close obviously.

Adding a Durant or one of those 3 should improve the offense drastically, along with Ingram. The only issue is that you can't let the defense fall, as much as people like to scream about this being an offensive era. The top teams are still playing great defense. I think Durant is the best target here, but you need to to get a defensive 5 who can hit freethrows to balance it and another defensive guard/small 3.

If you can somehow get Lamelo, or Trae while keeping all of Barnes, Ingram, Poeltl and Quickley, that's a significant boost for the offense, but i doubt the Hornets/Hawks would give them up for just picks and I have no idea how good Ingram will be as a defender here.

I think we'll go after a tier 2/3 player who will cost a lot less. Someone in the Trae, Lamelo, Markkennen range.

At that point, why bother, we have a team full of those guys.

Asset accumulation is never a bad thing if the price is right. E.g. Ingram for a late 1st and expiring.

Also, I don't think we have anyone like Lamelo or Markannen and I'd take them in a heartbeat.

Yes asset accumulation isn't bad, but at what point do we start looking at the redundancies, or risks associated with some of these players? Like BI has a huge risk with injury above his head, Lamelo the same, we don't want to have everything blow up in our faces if guys that have been injured a for a ton of time, continue to be injured.

Lauri IMO is just too expensive, and Trae plays zero defence, I just don't see the value in that kind of lead guard. He's just a worse Lillard, and I don't see teams clamouring for a worse Lillard.

We need to be aiming for guys getting less playing time than our FO thinks they deserve so they can be flipped. Ochai is a great example, trading a bunch of assets for known quantities without making a big push for a top team just seems like poor timing to me.

[tsherkin]

Sure, but that's you having an issue with his game rather than him "fading in the playoffs". His play style is no different in the regular season and he doesn't perform any differently in the playoffs.

But again, him having a pattern of his 3 running out IS him "fading in the playoffs. He's had some noteworthy troubles in a lot of his postseason runs, and he DOES perform differently in the playoffs.

[tsherkin]

Same tier, not exact talent level. BI/RJ/SB/IQ are all tier 2/3 level players.

RJ, Barnes and IQ are not Trae-tier players.

BI, when he's healthy, maybe. The playmaking value, though, separates Trae a lot from those other guys even though his scoring has come down in recent years.

[sidsid]

Yep.

Crazy Cleveland is even open to trading him...25 years old all-star for a team that just won 64 games.

Consistent health issues. This is his first year of 70+ games. Inconsistent scorer, clearly best-suited as a #2 option to a real superstar offensive player. Pretty good playmaker. Hasn't stunned in the playoffs, though obviously this year in particular, he was injured.

I think they're probably wondering what the team's ceiling is with him and Mitchell alongside one another. They need a scoring upgrade to get to that ultimate goal. He's quite good, but they are discovering the need for a real #1, I suspect.

I totally understand why they'd look to trade him. But If I'm not mistaken, he was their primary playmaker last year and if there is a weakness Mitchell has, it's his playmaking. I do wonder what their offence looks like without Garland and the impact it would have on the offense/Mobley's growth.

Mitchell is definitely a real number 1 btw if you meant on the offensive end.

The Cavs have been unceremoniously owned in the playoffs in the last 2 years by teams they definitely thought they were better than, and neither of which are thought as contenders.

They've got a "two small guards who don't play a lot of defense problem" compromising their bigs in the playoffs, and a polar opposite problem on offense with those bigs. That'll prompt changes the same way DeRozan 4th quarter benchings did for us.

Shopping for an upgrade with the lesser pieces of both problems was what most people (Matt Bonner was bringing this up back in December when they were rolling) were thinking before their great regular season run. But then the playoffs happened and all those questions come right back to the forefront. It's not a viable playoff composition if you want to contend.

[Axe Dragon]

C - FA/Draft/Trade
F Barnes - Mogbo
F Durant - Ochai
F Ingram - Dick - Battle
G IQ - Walter - Shead

It looks good but really it looks like.

C ?????????????????????
F Barnes - Mogbo
F Durant - Ochai
F Ingram - Dick - Battle
G IQ - Walter - Shead

I wonder what Rasho is up to

Let’s NBA!

Axe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[navyblue]

We have quickly who is 75-85% of trae at 50-60% of the cost

Trey eligible for 4 year 229 extension in July.