Woj: Raptors begin wide ranging coaching search.

[docholliday99]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

[tdotrep2]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

The raptors were 7-6 without fred van vleet this season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-record-without-vanvleet-this-season

[2019nbachamps]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

That tells you everything that’s wrong with our team. Undersized guards don’t win ish in the NBA.

[C_Money]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

Not to mention how horrible the offence looked without him. He’s literally the only rotation player that can dribble the ball.

[aligator]

We likely would have made playoffs without him. MU will not re-sign him even if it means he walks for nothing.

[docholliday99]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

The raptors were 7-6 without fred van vleet this season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-record-without-vanvleet-this-season

It's not just without him, we won a lot of games with him - lost a lot with him. He's the first to say he sucked this year. That said, he's such a big part of the culture and still a very very good guard. We still need that vet presence imo, we need someone to teach these kids coming in or we'll start looking like the Rockets.

[Spates]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

You're not really paying attention to what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting Scottie run PNRs, I'm saying we should figure out how to maximize his strengths and the strengths of others. PNRs are utilized for its advantage creation. It's not mandatory. If you don't have people who can run it well. Then don't. Fred isn't proficient enough to lament his loss because of the PNR. The offense isn't good anyways. Denver, Sacramento, and GSW used the least pNRs this year... Do have a problem with their offense?

It's absolutely mandatory. I don't think you understand a pretty basic truth here: the PnR is the staple of every single NBA offense. Some use it more than others, but it's still more frequently used than any other type of offensive initiator in the half court. So Denver, Sacramento and GSW are still using PnR more than any other play. So what Los was saying is accurate, if you lose Fred his function on offense as a ballhandler has to be replaced. That's typically "the PG" whether that looks like Chris Paul, Steph Curry, Jamal Murray or DeMar DeRozan, that's the guy with the ball running pick and rolls.

It's not all speed. Pace, change of speed, change of direction, etc. Do I really need to explain further? Dowtin has got a bit of herky jerky. I want to see him get an opportunity. I think you're actually oversimplifying things. It's about leveraging creation opportunities.

Herky jerky doesn't get guarded tightly without a jump shot. They just back up and dare him to shoot over length.

Also, I didn't know Gabe was a PG but I could describe his game to you..... What matters more — knowing what a player does on the court or knowing the position they're labelled with?

So you knew he did PG things on the court, but didn't know he was a PG. Okay.

This is a headache. I'm stuck in an argument I don't want to have. Where can we agree to disagree?

I'll move away from the unnecessary. Ball screens are an important part of the game. They open up a variety of options for teams to move defenses, get players into space, create matchup advantages, etc. What I'm contesting is that losing Fred is a huge issue regarding ball screen usage. Losing the primary handler in a bad shooting offense isn't a tragedy. He shot terribly and had a pretty bad assist to usage ratio. Democratize the ball screens and adapt your play initiation.

You really need to move away from this PG argument. Typically when a teams best player is a non-big, that player will be using the most ball screens whether pg, sg, or sf. Tatum and Butler use the most ball screens for their teams. Jokic creates most looks for his team and he barely uses at ball screens.

[docholliday99]

We likely would have made playoffs without him. MU will not re-sign him even if it means he walks for nothing.

I'll believe that if you show me a quote from Masai to that effect.

[ForeverTFC]

Would it be weird if the Raptors end up hiring Doc Rivers?

Reported.

[Ackshun]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

Wait. So you’re saying we would have a better pick without Fred ?

Now I hate him even more.

All joking aside, who cares about any of stuff. What good is it, when you can’t stand watching it ?

[tdotrep2]

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

The raptors were 7-6 without fred van vleet this season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-record-without-vanvleet-this-season

It's not just without him, we won a lot of games with him - lost a lot with him. He's the first to say he sucked this year. That said, he's such a big part of the culture and still a very very good guard. We still need that vet presence imo, we need someone to teach these kids coming in or we'll start looking like the Rockets.

both of you claim he's huge for our team, yet we have a better record without him. Our cultures gone to **** since kyle left and siakam/fred took over, and masai's came out and scrutinized the fact that we play selfishly. On top of this he wants 30m a year I'm not sure why anyone thinks he's really that important to anything.

[ArthurVandelay]

That's lost around here it seems. I believe MU will resign him.

The raptors were 7-6 without fred van vleet this season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-record-without-vanvleet-this-season

It's not just without him, we won a lot of games with him - lost a lot with him. He's the first to say he sucked this year. That said, he's such a big part of the culture and still a very very good guard. We still need that vet presence imo, we need someone to teach these kids coming in or we'll start looking like the Rockets.

I’m pretty sure a big part of the problem was the culture that made the Raptors eroded and was replaced with a “bet on yourself” “me first” “I’m gonna get mine” mentality…one that was referred to as selfish by the President of the team.

If FVV is such a big part of the culture, then he deserves a big part of the blame.

The kids coming in need to be scouted and background checked. Find good people who love to work. The kids coming in won’t respond to a vet who thinks they are all showing up to training camp with a silver spoon.

I actually liked FVV until this year. It’s time for everyone to move on. Hopefully Toronto can help him get somewhere he wants to be and Toronto can get an asset back. Win-win.

[Dalek]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

It is a good point, so if we move on from him we need a capable PG. Preferably a pick and roll PG for Poeltl. I don't love the idea of D'Angelo Russell in a double S&T, but he is only 27 and can keep the offense flowing, but his defense stinks.

[ArthurVandelay]

I don't think anyone realizes where we would have been without Fred last year. He had a down year in a system that didn't suit him and was still our 2nd most important player.

Wait. So you’re saying we would have a better pick without Fred ?

Now I hate him even more.

All joking aside, who cares about any of stuff. What good is it, when you can’t stand watching it ?

Bingo.

When Masai said he didn’t like watching the games this year it was a bittersweet moment for me.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

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[tdotrep2]

it's gonna happen any day now.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This is a headache. I'm stuck in an argument I don't want to have. Where can we agree to disagree?

I'll move away from the unnecessary. Ball screens are an important part of the game. They open up a variety of options for teams to move defenses, get players into space, create matchup advantages, etc. What I'm contesting is that losing Fred is a huge issue regarding ball screen usage. Losing the primary handler in a bad shooting offense isn't a tragedy. He shot terribly and had a pretty bad assist to usage ratio. Democratize the ball screens and adapt your play initiation.

You really need to move away from this PG argument. Typically when a teams best player is a non-big, that player will be using the most ball screens whether pg, sg, or sf. Tatum and Butler use the most ball screens for their teams. Jokic creates most looks for his team and he barely uses at ball screens.

Those best players using screens (non-big) the most are typically playing 'the point' in those sets. I'm not sure how you can acknowledge that these really great players all run this action and also come up with "democratize the ball screens." I think Fred's assist ratio with Poeltl was close to 30, so... that's pretty high. Prior was like 26, which is also good.

[Raptors_128]

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Too much smoke with Jordi now.

Hire him already.

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

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Too much smoke with Jordi now.

Hire him already.

Pretty sure Masaijust waiting for this thread to hit 100 pages

We close

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Too much smoke with Jordi now.

Hire him already.

Pretty sure Masaijust waiting for this thread to hit 100 pages

We close

And there it is