Official RJ Barrett Thread

[LoveMyRaps]

When he's not forced to be the first option, he's one of the best second/third options a team can have.

Putting up 21/6/4 while shooting 55% from the field and 40% from behind the arc.

[Scase]

Aaron Gordon (at 24 years old, also on a tanking team) averaged 14ppg , 8rpg, 4pg (44/31/67 splits)

RJ (at 24 years old, on a tanking team) is averaging 24ppg, 7rpg, 6apg (44/34/72 splits)


So as you said, RJ has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

Then it's pretty ignorant to suggest that he wouldn't produce more on a high ceiling team.

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.

Looks like I don't need to bother responding to him since you 2 handed him his lunch.

Or it just shows 3 of you that don't understand a very basic concept.

His place in the ORDER of offensive options are the same, not the PRODUCTION. Jesus, just take a second to read.

Anyways, you 3 can continue to circlejerk yourselves while seeming to intentionally ignoring the main point, I'm done with this "discussion".

[Tripod]

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.

Looks like I don't need to bother responding to him since you 2 handed him his lunch.

Or it just shows 3 of you that don't understand a very basic concept.

His place in the ORDER of offensive options are the same, not the PRODUCTION. Jesus, just take a second to read.

Anyways, you 3 can continue to circlejerk yourselves while seeming to intentionally ignoring the main point, I'm done with this "discussion".

Sorry your feelings are hurt.

Gordon's PLACE in that order is because of his limited abilities. If he was able to be a 20+ scorer he would not be a #4 option. Common sense.

RJ can be a #2/3 scorer on a team that wins. Hell Siakam was at 19 pts a game when we won while being a 28% 3pt shooter so was very 1 dimensional too.

[MEDIC]

When he's not forced to be the first option, he's one of the best second/third options a team can have.

Putting up 21/6/4 while shooting 55% from the field and 40% from behind the arc.

Thanks for this. This is the stat that I have been wanting to see. Now we just need to see a full season of these two together. See what we have. They have good chemistry & their games complement one another.

This is possibly the real T Dot RJ. 25 games is a decent sample size.

Just need to see it through the ups and downs of a full season.

[Shwaguy]

I really wonder if he could ever be a pseudo PG long term next to a pointforward like Scottie.

Offensively Scottie is PG and RJ is SF/PF and Defensively RJ guards the PG and Scottie the SF/PF

If a miracle happens and they win the draft lotto that sounds like something that would look really good with a Flagg or Bailey in there (Or even without a lotto win a different Forward taken with their first). IQ already proven borderline 6moty in his career too. Would be dangerous.

[mdenny]

I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in"

Yeah....didn't make sense to me either. A team rebuilding & looking for young talent, trading for a 23 year old former top 3 pick who had been averaging 20ppg his last 2 seasons......and it's not like they traded away a franchise player for him either. They traded a role player who had mentally checked out & was going to be too expensive to retain.

People are sheep. They read the narrative & just go with it.

I have been watching RJ since his high school years. He has always been very competitive, physical & had a no fear attitude.

Having said that, I do believe that the franchise didn't want to put too much pressure on RJ because he had just come from NY....had a ton of pressure there (top 3 pick in NYC) & was now going to face a different pressure coming home. I noticed that in media scrums, Masai would always make an effort to mention RJ's name last when talking about the trade. I found it interesting. I am sure it was something that was discussed between the family & the Raptors (to not start selling him as the Canadian savior). It was a smart move on their part. Let RJ settle in & prove his worth.

110% true, It has been clear that Masai has avoided putting any pressure on RJ bringing up IQ and Scottie while knowing damn well having watched the last Knicks playoff run with RJ&(the ghost of)IQ that RJ was the key get! as the younger of the two.

Interesting. I don't pay attention to those FO press conferences. This emphasis might have also had something to do with the fact that IQ needed to be resigned and they were posturing as a form of negotiation prep. (Ie - signaling he is a crucial part of the vision or whatever)

[MoMan24]

When he's not forced to be the first option, he's one of the best second/third options a team can have.

Putting up 21/6/4 while shooting 55% from the field and 40% from behind the arc.

He needs Scottie to be consistently effective and efficient simply because most of the night Jaden McDaniel's was on Scottie and RJ gets to attack weaker and less disciplined defenders . It's no coincidence RJ also took 12 FTs since he had much more energy to attack since he had much less creation load. Scottie also takes rebounding and defensive pressure off RJ too. RJ to me is a more flawed player than Scottie, but Scottie helps hide those flaws and enhances his strengths even more at the same time. They fit pretty well together. Can't wait for IQ to come back so he can provide them both spacing, creation and scoring help.

[youngRAPZ]

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.

Looks like I don't need to bother responding to him since you 2 handed him his lunch.

Or it just shows 3 of you that don't understand a very basic concept.

His place in the ORDER of offensive options are the same, not the PRODUCTION. Jesus, just take a second to read.

Anyways, you 3 can continue to circlejerk yourselves while seeming to intentionally ignoring the main point, I'm done with this "discussion".

Translation

“OMG I made a stupid comment and got called out I’m done with this discussion”

lol man you just don’t know how to keep your foot out your mouth.

[tsherkin]

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.

I think the problem here is that we don't know that for sure. Last year, we changed his offensive structure, and he looked very, very good. Then we ripped away that support, and he returned to his base form. We can afford to give him a season where we try to replicate last year's environment and see if he can look better in that role and inside that structure than he was while playing a different way over his career to date. It won't cost us much, we're already basically giving up on the season, so why not run it through and see what he can provide with another extended run alongside Scottie? Especially now that Gradey is here and providing his spacing and such.

We've committed to giving Scottie a ton of chances. We're giving Gradey his chances. We may as well give RJ his. He has talent. He has some desirable skills. He's shown differences in his production when we've changed things up a bit for him. It's worth exploring.

[Johnny Bball]

Aaron Gordon (at 24 years old, also on a tanking team) averaged 14ppg , 8rpg, 4pg (44/31/67 splits)

RJ (at 24 years old, on a tanking team) is averaging 24ppg, 7rpg, 6apg (44/34/72 splits)


So as you said, RJ has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

Then it's pretty ignorant to suggest that he wouldn't produce more on a high ceiling team.

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.

Looks like I don't need to bother responding to him since you 2 handed him his lunch.

All he's doing is trying to switch his slant to one that can't be proven wrong on Toronto in years. Weak. Its wrong in the first place.

[Scase]

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.

I think the problem here is that we don't know that for sure. Last year, we changed his offensive structure, and he looked very, very good. Then we ripped away that support, and he returned to his base form. We can afford to give him a season where we try to replicate last year's environment and see if he can look better in that role and inside that structure than he was while playing a different way over his career to date. It won't cost us much, we're already basically giving up on the season, so why not run it through and see what he can provide with another extended run alongside Scottie? Especially now that Gradey is here and providing his spacing and such.

We've committed to giving Scottie a ton of chances. We're giving Gradey his chances. We may as well give RJ his. He has talent. He has some desirable skills. He's shown differences in his production when we've changed things up a bit for him. It's worth exploring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he unequivocally can't, I'm saying based on historical evidence, it's more likely that he won't vs the people saying it's more likely that in year 6 on a tanking team he magically becomes a championship level 2nd option.

If we are being at all realistic, there is no way what I'm saying is irrational vs the alternative argument. I don't typically speak in definitives, I speak in likelihoods, cause none of us are clairvoyant. But I cannot ignore tons of sample size because of a flash in the pan.

It just (hilariously) tends to be the people who are so anti tank and love to talk about how lotto picks, or winning the lotto are such low odds that we shouldn't bother, that are the same ones talking about how these small sample sizes are proof that this player can ascend to be a 2nd option on a high ceiling team vs the more likely outcome.

It's the cognitive dissonance that drives me nuts, not people having hopes, but the constant conflicting viewpoints.

[youngRAPZ]

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.

I think the problem here is that we don't know that for sure. Last year, we changed his offensive structure, and he looked very, very good. Then we ripped away that support, and he returned to his base form. We can afford to give him a season where we try to replicate last year's environment and see if he can look better in that role and inside that structure than he was while playing a different way over his career to date. It won't cost us much, we're already basically giving up on the season, so why not run it through and see what he can provide with another extended run alongside Scottie? Especially now that Gradey is here and providing his spacing and such.

We've committed to giving Scottie a ton of chances. We're giving Gradey his chances. We may as well give RJ his. He has talent. He has some desirable skills. He's shown differences in his production when we've changed things up a bit for him. It's worth exploring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he unequivocally can't, I'm saying based on historical evidence, it's more likely that he won't vs the people saying it's more likely that in year 6 on a tanking team he magically becomes a championship level 2nd option.

If we are being at all realistic, there is no way what I'm saying is irrational vs the alternative argument. I don't typically speak in definitives, I speak in likelihoods, cause none of us are clairvoyant. But I cannot ignore tons of sample size because of a flash in the pan.

It just (hilariously) tends to be the people who are so anti tank and love to talk about how lotto picks, or winning the lotto are such low odds that we shouldn't bother, that are the same ones talking about how these small sample sizes are proof that this player can ascend to be a 2nd option on a high ceiling team vs the more likely outcome.

It's the cognitive dissonance that drives me nuts, not people having hopes, but the constant conflicting viewpoints.

Everything you say literally doesn’t make sense. Like how you tried to use a moving the target closer means he didn’t improve as if we lowered the basketball net or shrunk the basketball court so RJ could dominate. Raptors didn’t change the rules as you would suggest they did. They changed their strategy how RJ plays that is literally the definition of getting better. Realizing what isn’t working and adjusting for the better.

When you decide to get back in touch with reality maybe you will get a better response from the majority of the board.

[Shwaguy]

RJ is a championship level 6th man on an All time great team, that's the upside I see I don't know how to put it.

His skillset has a lot of value to a title team you just have to implement it right.

Darko compared him to Manu last year and I see the vision so clearly.

[canada_dry]

RJ is a championship level 6th man on an All time great team, that's the upside I see I don't know how to put it.

His skillset has a lot of value to a title team you just have to implement it right.

Darko compared him to Manu last year and I see the vision so clearly.

Manu is heavily disrespected and underrated.

Manu wasnt best utilized as a sixth man. As a starter Manu was an all nba player. An all star. Arguably should have been a finals mvp in 05. A playoff performer. THAT level of a player as a starter.

He just accepted the sixth man role that pop approached him with due to unselfishness and for the betterment of the team. Not for his OWN betterment like a jamal Crawford or lou will.

There's a big difference in those two scenarios.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Shwaguy]

RJ is a championship level 6th man on an All time great team, that's the upside I see I don't know how to put it.

His skillset has a lot of value to a title team you just have to implement it right.

Darko compared him to Manu last year and I see the vision so clearly.

Manu is heavily disrespected and underrated.

Manu wasnt best utilized as a sixth man. As a starter Manu was an all nba player. An all star. Arguably should have been a finals mvp in 05. A playoff performer. THAT level of a player as a starter.

He just accepted the sixth man role that pop approached him with due to unselfishness and for the betterment of the team. Not for his OWN betterment like a jamal Crawford or lou will.

There's a big difference in those two scenarios.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM Forums mobile app

Well maybe he's not Manu I wasn't saying exactly that, but he is also better than the Lou Will and Jamal Crawford.

You contradicted yourself as well, and said Manu wasn't best utilized as a sixth man, and then said he and Pop did it for the betterment of the team.

RJ can be good on or off the bench. But the build of the team would be best with someone like him off the bench imo. Less on him and more on the build of the team.

[Psubs]

RJ is a championship level 6th man on an All time great team, that's the upside I see I don't know how to put it.

His skillset has a lot of value to a title team you just have to implement it right.

Darko compared him to Manu last year and I see the vision so clearly.

Manu is heavily disrespected and underrated.

Manu wasnt best utilized as a sixth man. As a starter Manu was an all nba player. An all star. Arguably should have been a finals mvp in 05. A playoff performer. THAT level of a player as a starter.

He just accepted the sixth man role that pop approached him with due to unselfishness and for the betterment of the team. Not for his OWN betterment like a jamal Crawford or lou will.

There's a big difference in those two scenarios.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM Forums mobile app

Well maybe he's not Manu I wasn't saying exactly that, but he is also better than the Lou Will and Jamal Crawford.

You contradicted yourself as well, and said Manu wasn't best utilized as a sixth man, and then said he and Pop did it for the betterment of the team.

RJ can be good on or off the bench. But the build of the team would be best with someone like him off the bench imo. Less on him and more on the build of the team.

I see it like he has the attitude and confidence of a star but not the efficiency and can't rely on his FT shooting late in the game. He's able to do the meat and potatoes scoring, rebounding and passing but may not result in wins.

He's going to be entering his prime soon and not likely to accept a bench role, even though Ochai Agbaji getting more minutes would likely lead to more success. Would 100% choose Agbaji over Barrett.

Barrett, Poeltl and 1st picks to Milwaukee for Giannis?

PG IQ - Shead/Barnes
SG Dick - Jakobe/Will Riley
SF Agbaji - Mobgo - Will Riley - Battle
PF Barnes - Olynyk/Mogbo
C Giannis - Ivisic/Chomche

[tsherkin]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he unequivocally can't, I'm saying based on historical evidence, it's more likely that he won't vs the people saying it's more likely that in year 6 on a tanking team he magically becomes a championship level 2nd option.

If we are being at all realistic, there is no way what I'm saying is irrational vs the alternative argument. I don't typically speak in definitives, I speak in likelihoods, cause none of us are clairvoyant. But I cannot ignore tons of sample size because of a flash in the pan.

I think the flash in the pan is noteworthy because it included such a change in how the game was played around him, so it's worth exploring. And it's not like we're going anywhere fancy this season anyway. I hear you on probability, I've spoken similar words often enough. It's LIKELY that he isn't magically this higher-end guy, but it's worth seeing what he looks like at the end of this season with that passing context around him a little more, right? Scottie and IQ on the floor, now we have Gradey clicking, right? Open up the interior, distribute the volume a little more (remember, he's increased his shooting volume by like 25%), reduce the number of unassisted looks and see what happens. And then, of course, apply that to Scottie as well, since I often harp on him for similar issues. And we'll see if Scottie can get back to hitting from 3.

This is an important season to mess around and see what we have.

[tsherkin]

Well maybe he's not Manu I wasn't saying exactly that, but he is also better than the Lou Will and Jamal Crawford.

And why is that?

Lou Will was an efficient guy for us, scoring in the mid-teens, and won the first of his 3 6MOYs the year he was here. He, of course, had issues in the playoffs and his head game wasn't always on point. But he was pretty good bench spark who could create shots for himself and score efficiently on reasonable volume. Same deal with Crawford.

Are you making an attitude-related argument to suggest that Barrett is better, or representing last year more than this season to date?

[Scase]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he unequivocally can't, I'm saying based on historical evidence, it's more likely that he won't vs the people saying it's more likely that in year 6 on a tanking team he magically becomes a championship level 2nd option.

If we are being at all realistic, there is no way what I'm saying is irrational vs the alternative argument. I don't typically speak in definitives, I speak in likelihoods, cause none of us are clairvoyant. But I cannot ignore tons of sample size because of a flash in the pan.

I think the flash in the pan is noteworthy because it included such a change in how the game was played around him, so it's worth exploring. And it's not like we're going anywhere fancy this season anyway. I hear you on probability, I've spoken similar words often enough. It's LIKELY that he isn't magically this higher-end guy, but it's worth seeing what he looks like at the end of this season with that passing context around him a little more, right? Scottie and IQ on the floor, now we have Gradey clicking, right? Open up the interior, distribute the volume a little more (remember, he's increased his shooting volume by like 25%), reduce the number of unassisted looks and see what happens. And then, of course, apply that to Scottie as well, since I often harp on him for similar issues. And we'll see if Scottie can get back to hitting from 3.

This is an important season to mess around and see what we have.

Yeah I agree with you on all that, I'm happy to have this be an experimental year and see how it goes. I just tire of hearing everyone claiming that he's some blossoming star or a primary option because of a handful of games. RJs problem from a scoring stand point is that he's a lot closer to Scottie than a true scorer, he's not a shot creator, he's (when efficient) someone who has the scoring chance created for him via passes etc.

We need someone who can make something out of nothing, and that will be a primary option. People just don't seem to understand that for some reason. I will be happy if RJ ends up being like a 15-17ppg player on good efficiency, rather than 20-22 on very bad efficiency. Hopefully GD can pick it back up again and be that, but 4 of his last 5 have been pretty bad.

[tsherkin]

Yeah I agree with you on all that, I'm happy to have this be an experimental year and see how it goes. I just tire of hearing everyone claiming that he's some blossoming star or a primary option because of a handful of games. RJs problem from a scoring stand point is that he's a lot closer to Scottie than a true scorer, he's not a shot creator, he's (when efficient) someone who has the scoring chance created for him via passes etc.

In defense of the commentary, this IS the team board. If there's gonna be space for delusional nonsense, this is it. And it's not quite that, it's just... aggressively hopeful. He's young, he has physical tools, he has consistently shown the ability to get to the rim. He just needs to flesh out the REST of his game. We gave DDR a chance to develop for many years, we may as well give Barrett his. And folks are looking for SOME reason to enjoy the season when we look mediocre or worse again, right?

We need someone who can make something out of nothing, and that will be a primary option. People just don't seem to understand that for some reason. I will be happy if RJ ends up being like a 15-17ppg player on good efficiency, rather than 20-22 on very bad efficiency. Hopefully GD can pick it back up again and be that, but 4 of his last 5 have been pretty bad.

He's gassed, facing focal D and notably elevating his volume compared to last year, right? So we'll see what happens as the season wears on with both of them. And with Scottie.

It's just a season to be patient and see what happens, right? I hear you, some of it can get tiring because the weight of history isn't on Barrett's side to the extent that some are describing... but if he gets even 50% of the way back to what he was doing last year with us, then that's a pretty meaty win.