Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Meyers Leonard

[kmatrixg]

He's going in the lottery. Not a great pick for us but maybe GSW looks for Bogut insurance.

If they look for Bogut insurance, they go with Zeller over Leonard.

[Throwback24]

wow i cant beleive there is a meyers leonard thread....this guy is a bust for sure id rather draft marquis teague at 8 than meyers leonard.

He'll be a bust if he's drafted in the lottery but he'd be an intriguing prospect in the 17+ range.

[kmatrixg]

PRODUCTION: Meyers was slightly better across the board. Higher volume (PTs), much higher efficiency (TS%/2P%), higher REBs, much higher BLKs due to his size, much better FTA/FGA. PJIII has the slight edge in A/T, Ast, and TOs. PER was 23.9 for Leonard vs 21.2 for PJIII. Leonard had by far the highest PER on his team, PJIII was 3rd behind Acy and Jackson. There were 3 players with a higher TS% than PJIII on his team with two others tied with him at .54, Leonard had the highest TS% on his team by a full 6 pts with .62 vs .56 and 3rd highest TS% on his team was 10 points behind him at .52. Leonard compared to his teammates dominated in the efficient scoring, rebounding and blk categories. Nothing PJIII did statistically separated himself from teammates.

FIT ON OUR TEAM: PJIII gives us the same type of production and role Bargnani does, unless you make the ill fated decision of believing a player with his size and ball skills can be a 3. IMO I like the Leonard fit more because then we have a dual 7 footers, twin towers type of lineup, plus he and Bargnani can play together a lot better than PJIII/Bargnani. I'm as sold on Meyers offensively as I am PJIII and I'm far, far more sold on his defensive potential

There is next to no reason to be in a mode of saying draft PJIII and "hahaha fk this guy" with Leonard at the same time. PJIII has every reason to like or dislike him that Meyers does.

I'm not discounting Leonard because I believe he'll be a decent role player, but this 'analysis' is so skewed and 'apples to oranges', I had to say something.

Leonard played in a no-option half court offense, feeding off of Brandon Paul's ability to spread the floor. The Big Ten is not known for being a "big" conference, so Leonard had an advantage every night getting position in the post.

* Again, I'm not discounting Leonard, I think it's fair to say he's a respected prospect who will rise

So, his size gave him a great advantage against a majority of his competition, which it does for anyone at/around 7-feet. But, to compare him to Jones is kind of short-sighted man. Baylor played a completely different style of play - 92 feet - opportunistic.

Systematic vs. Opportunistic.

When you compare stats though, that kind of stuff can happen. In fact, you're entire argument is based on statistics. C'est la vie.

Jones is fluid on both ends of the floor. His range is improving, but his jumpshot is already pretty smooth. He's an inside-out player who creates his own shot, Leonard is a post scorer who gets fed the ball. Defensively, Jones covered the quicker players on the perimeter - his length allowed him to cover the passing lanes and his foot speed allowed him to cover the dribble drive. It's no wonder Leonard averaged 1.9 blocks to Jones' 0/6 - but that doesn't mean Jones isn't a shot blocker. He is.

Again, apples to oranges and I'm not discounting Leonard.

For the record, I'm not saying Jones is a sureshot superstar. I'm also not saying Leonard is as good as he is. If Jones is a 4, he's going to need a lot of work to become stronger and more post-oriented. He's a fantastic rebounder and defender so he's got that going for him. Leonard, if he wants to become a starting Center, needs to get a lot stronger (because remember, pounds don't equal muscle) and work on his offense to the point of not being entirely dependent on post-feeds. But, at least he can make free throws.

[Al_Oliver]

He's a lot more interesting than guys like the Jones', Zeller, Miller, Marshall, Rivers, and Lilliard to me. 7 footer who possesses a nice combo of athleticism, skills, and potential. I was originally indifferent to Valanciunas last season, but opened to it because I saw some good qualities and a 7 ft tall player in an uninspiring draft position (5th in a weak draft, similar situation here where we're projected 8th/9th or whatever). My feeling is that we're a really bad basketball who shouldn't be looking for fit, so why not be open to anything? He could easily be BPA imo.

but he's not even one of the best 15 available. wroten, waiters, rivers, jones and Q, are all way better options in the back of the lottery. those are talents that even fit us better too

[kmatrixg]

He's a lot more interesting than guys like the Jones', Zeller, Miller, Marshall, Rivers, and Lilliard to me. 7 footer who possesses a nice combo of athleticism, skills, and potential. I was originally indifferent to Valanciunas last season, but opened to it because I saw some good qualities and a 7 ft tall player in an uninspiring draft position (5th in a weak draft, similar situation here where we're projected 8th/9th or whatever). My feeling is that we're a really bad basketball who shouldn't be looking for fit, so why not be open to anything? He could easily be BPA imo.

but he's not even one of the best 15 available. wroten, waiters, rivers, jones and Q, are all way better options in the back of the lottery. those are talents that even fit us better too

It's safe to say Quincy is off everyone's draft board with the reports of atrophy in his bum knee. Except Portland.

Ouch, too soon?

[JN]

That Illinois team fell apart and totally gave up on their coach, and Leonard was a big part of that. Whoever is interested in drafting him has to closely evaluate his character.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

He's going in the lottery. Not a great pick for us but maybe GSW looks for Bogut insurance.

If they look for Bogut insurance, they go with Zeller over Leonard.

Maybe, I wasn't necessarily trying to replace Bogut's game or to fill-in next year, more of a long-term insurance policy in the event he gets hit by lightning or final destination or something.

I do think Zeller is underrated and that he could go in the top 10. I don't know why anybody would take Sullinger over him if they were looking for a bulky scorer to potentially help next year, he's probably 3 inches taller and that jump-hook will translate. They'll both stink on D.

[hype_2004]

We can sign Aaron Gray for cheap, a seasoned NBA player, Leonard doesn't offer anything that Gray can't do and better. We need vet bits on this team for leadership, no more projects, we already have big VAL.

[lolwut]

I've never seen this guy play, but one look at this picture and I can tell you he sucks.

[fredericklove]

I've never seen this guy play, but one look at this picture and I can tell you he sucks.

[kmatrixg]

He's going in the lottery. Not a great pick for us but maybe GSW looks for Bogut insurance.

If they look for Bogut insurance, they go with Zeller over Leonard.

Maybe, I wasn't necessarily trying to replace Bogut's game or to fill-in next year, more of a long-term insurance policy in the event he gets hit by lightning or final destination or something.

I do think Zeller is underrated and that he could go in the top 10. I don't know why anybody would take Sullinger over him if they were looking for a bulky scorer to potentially help next year, he's probably 3 inches taller and that jump-hook will translate. They'll both stink on D.

The team that grabs Sully will probably already have a 7 footer to dominate the post on D and/or a decent perimeter defender to ward off penetration as much as possible. Teams in that range with either or both include (ironically) Golden State, Sacramento (given Drummond is off the board), Detroit and - dare I say - Washington if they fall. In fact, the Hornets might even try to take him with the Wolves pick if they get a top 3 selection and go with Beal or MKG.

I'm guessing that if the Warriors decide to grab a Center as insurance, they might take Leonard over Zeller due to the fact that one is 2 years older than the other.

[Dr Positivity]

For the record, I'm not saying Jones is a sureshot superstar. I'm also not saying Leonard is as good as he is. If Jones is a 4, he's going to need a lot of work to become stronger and more post-oriented. He's a fantastic rebounder and defender so he's got that going for him. Leonard, if he wants to become a starting Center, needs to get a lot stronger (because remember, pounds don't equal muscle) and work on his offense to the point of not being entirely dependent on post-feeds. But, at least he can make free throws.

What??? Are you mixing up Perry and Terrence Jones?

And you're right about just using production/stats as a primary tool being a fallible way to compare players, but that's why I included physical tools and skill categories in judging them (for the record I much prefer looking at skillsets instead of stats to judge a player and that's why I just listed the stats last as a final support)

[Dr Positivity]

By the way here is an Illinois game, as far as I can tell the only full one on youtube

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLrW7Ia0dPw[/youtube]

It shows a handful of the strengths and weaknesses of Leonard and Bob Knight spends most of the game analyzing him which is pretty nice. You can see where the enigmatic reputation comes from in that he vacillates between posting up and floating on the perimeter (he seems to be invested in setting screens though so it could be a gameplan thing), and definitely needs work holding position on the boards. So you have to worry about him physically against Cs who are going to beat him up, especially early on. For that reason his best position may be at PF.

OTOH to me when he does get the ball he flashes amazing talent. His hands/feet in the post look sick, plus this has to be one of his best passing games of the year. To me his combination of size and footspeed is pretty close to freakish. That's what allows him to look so good in the post despite his rawness. I also think his court vision and basketball IQ looked pretty good. He reads the defenses well and on the other end the passing is a sign of vision. To me the bigger concern with why he's less than uber dominant is the toughness and holding position factor. You basically have to hope he develops like Pau and Aldridge in that department. Pau was a perimeter player at this age and Aldridge loved playing that outside David West type, but as they got older and bigger they committed a fair amount to battling down low. I could see Pau being the perfect comparison for his semi-concerns mentally

I do think he's closer to project than finished product and we'd have to rely on Casey developing him to the point where he's on the block all the time. But in terms of enigmatic talent I take this guy's combination of tools over either Drummond or PJIII any day of the week. Leonard has way more skill and actual basketball playing ability than Drummond and is way bigger than PJIII, giving him back to the basket/blocking shots upside while PJIII will always play a non physical 4 type of game. To me he's the 2nd or 3rd most talented guy in the draft.

[Darknemo2000]

I probably was too influenced mentally by the 2011 summer where Jonas made meyers his bitch and Meyers had no chance stopping him even with double-triple teams. He could not defend and could not rebound and on O he looked too scared of Jonas to make some noise under the basket.

Whenever I look at Meyers I remember those moments from he game and its to hard for me to consider him being worthy of Raptors pick.

[xprt]

He isnt even lottery pick and Raptors arent taking another C unless his name is Drummond

[hype_2004]

I probably was too influenced mentally by the 2011 summer where Jonas made meyers his bitch and Meyers had no chance stopping him even with double-triple teams. He could not defend and could not rebound and on O he looked too scared of Jonas to make some noise under the basket.

Whenever I look at Meyers I remember those moments from he game and its to hard for me to consider him being worthy of Raptors pick.

Yeah he's a good pick.......in the second round to be Big Val's practice biatch other than that want no part of this guy with our lottery selection.

[edquantum]

He reminds me a lot of a more athletic/jacked Valanciunas offensively, with elite hands and efficiency and both players liking those hookshots. Leonard looks better in the post and also hits those midrange shots in the way we expect Valanciunas can learn to but don't know about yet. I consider Leonard to be the better offensive prospect outright, while Valanciunas has him in rebounding and likely defensive aggressiveness.

Lithuania U19 Team 108, USA U19 Team 75

Leonard: ZERO points, ZERO rebounds, FOULED OUT in 8 min.
Valanciunas: 23 points, 11 rebounds in 25 min.


Lithuania U19 Team 105, USA U19 Team 107

Leonard: 3 points, 3 rebounds in 13 min.
Valanciunas: 30 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks in 38 min.



You are definitely right.

[no dice]

I've never seen this guy play, but one look at this picture and I can tell you he sucks.

[God Squad]

He isnt even lottery pick and Raptors arent taking another C unless his name is Drummond

[God Squad]

He reminds me a lot of a more athletic/jacked Valanciunas offensively, with elite hands and efficiency and both players liking those hookshots. Leonard looks better in the post and also hits those midrange shots in the way we expect Valanciunas can learn to but don't know about yet. I consider Leonard to be the better offensive prospect outright, while Valanciunas has him in rebounding and likely defensive aggressiveness.

Lithuania U19 Team 108, USA U19 Team 75

Leonard: ZERO points, ZERO rebounds, FOULED OUT in 8 min.
Valanciunas: 23 points, 11 rebounds in 25 min.


Lithuania U19 Team 105, USA U19 Team 107

Leonard: 3 points, 3 rebounds in 13 min.
Valanciunas: 30 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks in 38 min.



You are definitely right.

Yea I remember all of this now lol. Please enough with Leonard. We have Val. Just let it go now Mufasa. Lets focus on actual and possible prospects for the raps. I just don't see Leonard as an option.