Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12

[defstarcon]

jeremy lamb, nuff said...

[God Squad]

If we don't end up getting BEAL, I seriously entertain trading down to take Dion Waiters. He may just be the best defensive 2 guard in the draft.

Smart player, athletically blessed, can shoot, and run with the best with them.

TO Houston
Raptors 8th pick, two 2nd rounders, Ed Davis

To Toronto
14th Pick (Waiters), and Kyle Lowry

I'd that in a second. Not sure I'd draft Waiters. Maybe learn towards Lamb?

[JamesNaismith]

If we don't end up getting BEAL, I seriously entertain trading down to take Dion Waiters. He may just be the best defensive 2 guard in the draft.

Smart player, athletically blessed, can shoot, and run with the best with them.

TO Houston
Raptors 8th pick, two 2nd rounders, Ed Davis

To Toronto
14th Pick (Waiters), and Kyle Lowry

I'd that in a second. Not sure I'd draft Waiters. Maybe learn towards Lamb?

LOL Lamb will not be around 14th overall....I will bet ANYTHING on that.

We'll be LUCKY if he's there at 8th.

[Indeed]

If being 6'4" and having 6'7" wingspan is bad than I am confused

Is Bayless bad? Otherwise, we already got one, why draft another one?

[BillyGM]

If being 6'4" and having 6'7" wingspan is bad than I am confused

Is Bayless bad? Otherwise, we already got one, why draft another one?

If he's anything Bayless, than I would say Bayless 2.5

[BillyGM]

Interesting fact about Crowder is that his father played few seasons in the NBA for the Utah Jazz.

[Ackshun]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePNFp9tNrXU&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

[Al_Oliver]

Draftexpress has Jae Crowder going 40th, nbadraft.net - undrafted. )) Isn't this the definition of being underrated?

DraftExpress: His defense reminds of someone I know. RT @ShaneBattier: Jae Crowder from Marquette is fun to watch. Jack of all trades. Great player.

Even Battier thinks that Jae is a great player.

Is these DJ Odom's measurements from Draftexpress legit?
Height w/shoes 6' 3"
Wingspan 6' 6"

or you are overrating him... he wasn't even a great college player. he was good, but not even close to great

[BillyGM]

Draftexpress has Jae Crowder going 40th, nbadraft.net - undrafted. )) Isn't this the definition of being underrated?

DraftExpress: His defense reminds of someone I know. RT @ShaneBattier: Jae Crowder from Marquette is fun to watch. Jack of all trades. Great player.

Even Battier thinks that Jae is a great player.

Is these DJ Odom's measurements from Draftexpress legit?
Height w/shoes 6' 3"
Wingspan 6' 6"

or you are overrating him... he wasn't even a great college player. he was good, but not even close to great

Tell that to Shane Battier.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Crowder wanting to play the 2 turned me almost all the way off.

[Ell Curry]

Re: Trading Down
If the Raptors pick 8th and Beal, MKG and Lamb (I'm not sold on Barnes) are all gone I'd be down for trading the pick for the Rockets 13th and 16th picks and picking a high upside guy (Leonard, PJ3, Quincy Miller, Rivers) and Waiters.

Waiters looked fluid and intelligent when I watched 'Cuse play and his Ortg (116), 36% 3point shooting and very high steals rate make him seem like a good candidate to be a nice complimentary starter. He accepted being the 6th man on his team when he was, at worst, the team's 2nd best player.

Re: Jae Crowder

He had a great sophomore season. Not a good one. A great one. 122 ortg on 23% Usage (2nd or 3rd option level) and a blistering 59.8 TS% mean he was a great scorer. Add 8.5 boards, 2.5 steals (incredibly high) and a block and you have a really great season. I'd say only Anthony Davis had a clearly better season. Crowder's numbers are better than Robinson's or Sullinger's, and way better than the freshman and sophomore perimeter players going in the lottery.

When you add the fact that Crowder is a beast, so his height should be mitigated, and I think he'd be a really great pick at 37. I could definitely see OKC taking him. Their crunch-time lineup needs an all-around forward type to go with Ibaka, Durant, Harden and Westbrook. If Crowder can shoot, he'd be a nice fit there.

[Kevin Willis]

I think if we keep our pick almost one for sure will a European stashed overseas.

[Dr Positivity]

As I said in another thread, I'd be shocked if Crowder made it to Rd 2 as it'd mean being passed on by Indiana, Miami, OKC and Chicago. Crowder is an ideal pick for a great team not only because he fits as a glue guy role player who doesn't need the ball, but because he can log minutes at multiple positions and play multiple roles, allowing them to find a spot in the rotation easier for him

[Double Helix]

Was thinking about why so many people think that a superior physical talent like PJIII is more likely to succeed than a player with simply good physical attributes and superior cognitive abilities (like Sullinger) when it hit me. The mind controls all and the body is merely a vessel, not unlike a video game where we control the physical attributes of video game characters. Consider this analogy on the subject of PJII vs Jared Sullinger:

Who's more likely to win in a game of NBA Live 2012? A 20 year-old NBA Live expert who's been ranked higher by almost any tangible measure while playing with with the Charlotte Bobcats? Or, another 20 year old Live player that perhaps prefers Madden, and is ranked lower by almost any tangible measure playing with the Miami Heat? My money's on the smarter, savvier player that knows how to dominate his peers while using the Bobcats and that... in effect... is Jered Sullinger vs Perry Jones.

Perry Jones the player, and the Heat as a team in a video game, both have amazing attributes that if controlled by a strategic, skilled, focused mind would be tough to beat but in Jones' case that doesn't appear to be so. And the craziest part about it is that Sullinger's superior mind isn't even controlling the equivalent of the Bobcats. He's 6'10 and 270lbs. He's not the most athletic guy in the world but those attributes are nowhere near league worst for his position. He's not even the equivalent of the Bobcats physically.

The mind controls all. Great players have competitive, strategic minds that see the game differently in addition to great physical attributes. Sullinger might have the cognitive abilities that the great PFs have and simply good (not great) physical attributes. I wouldn't classify his frame/athleticism combo as poor. If he was weaker or shorter, sure, but he's not. He's strong and seems to have enough length to fit in with most PFs. I think you'll find quite a few PFs in the NBA with PERs above 17.0 that have that combination of attributes (Competitive, focused, ready to work minds and less than stellar physical attributes). How many PFs with PERs above 17.0 can you think of that have unfocused, unmotivated, non-competitive minds that get by soley on their size and athleticism? Now, think about how many of those types you've seen rotting away on benches over the years.

[BillyGM]

I would love to hear people thoughts on: Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Draymond Green, Orlando Johnson, Hollis Thompson, Moe Harkless, Darius-Johnson Odom and William Buford.

[JN]

Re: Trading Down
If the Raptors pick 8th and Beal, MKG and Lamb (I'm not sold on Barnes) are all gone I'd be down for trading the pick for the Rockets 13th and 16th picks and picking a high upside guy (Leonard, PJ3, Quincy Miller, Rivers) and Waiters.

Waiters looked fluid and intelligent when I watched 'Cuse play and his Ortg (116), 36% 3point shooting and very high steals rate make him seem like a good candidate to be a nice complimentary starter. He accepted being the 6th man on his team when he was, at worst, the team's 2nd best player.

Re: Jae Crowder

He had a great sophomore season. Not a good one. A great one. 122 ortg on 23% Usage (2nd or 3rd option level) and a blistering 59.8 TS% mean he was a great scorer. Add 8.5 boards, 2.5 steals (incredibly high) and a block and you have a really great season. I'd say only Anthony Davis had a clearly better season. Crowder's numbers are better than Robinson's or Sullinger's, and way better than the freshman and sophomore perimeter players going in the lottery.

When you add the fact that Crowder is a beast, so his height should be mitigated, and I think he'd be a really great pick at 37. I could definitely see OKC taking him. Their crunch-time lineup needs an all-around forward type to go with Ibaka, Durant, Harden and Westbrook. If Crowder can shoot, he'd be a nice fit there.

Crowder was a senior, not a sophomore. He spent two years in junior college. He is two or three years older then most other prospects.

Crowder had a great season - Big East Player of the Year (IIRC - maybe it was Kevin Jones). You know the guy will be a do it all 3, the type that can play bigger or smaller in the crunch. Only concern would be quickness on D at the next level.

That being said I can definetely see a team between 23-30 having interest in Crowder.

[fredericklove]

I would love to hear people thoughts on: Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Draymond Green, Orlando Johnson, Hollis Thompson, Moe Harkless, Darius-Johnson Odom and William Buford.

I've only watched Will Barton and Buford played, the rest I'm uncertain about (though intrigued by Harkless' all around ability). In terms of Will Barton, he's a classical scoring guard, ability to create his own shots and able to slash to the basket with his speed and quickness...he reminds me of a Chris Douglas-Roberts type but his most glaring issue is his frame, he's too skinny so he has to add in strength.

Being an OSU fan, I was upset that David Lighty went undrafted. But in terms of Buford, he's a better prospect than lighty, I like Buford's all around ability, he'll hustle on the glass, defend pretty well due to his frame, strength and footwork, he's not a bad pull-up shooter/capable of shooting 3s, he'll basically be a hustle guy that plays defense with mid-range shooting type of prospect. His most glaring issue is that he tends to force issues, he'll try to force shots and try to force his way into the basket with relatively no chance of making the layups.

[Dr Positivity]

I would consider Buford with the Indiana pick at best. .52 TS% and .45 TS% his senior year in college probably means offensive scrub in the NBA. Watching 3 OSU games earlier this week Craft > Buford and Thomas in NBA potential IMO

[LittleOzzy]

Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Andre Drummond: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Anthony Davis: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Austin Rivers: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Bradley Beal: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Damian Lillard: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jared Sullinger: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Kendall Marshall: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Perry Jones: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Quincy Miller: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Terrence Jones: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Thomas Robinson: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Tony Wroten: Link
Raptors NBA Draft Thread: 2nd Round Draft Picks: Link

[tdotrep2]

don't know why this thread is not just used like it has been for 12 parts. I understand the individual threads after one has been drafted.