Raptors Cap Situation - Woj: Cap at 70 million, Tax 84.7 million

Dukenukem23 · Post #21 » by **Dukenukem23** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:03 am

AlwaysFresh wrote:But i wanted Vince back

He'd be the perfect back up 3. We desperately need to fill that void and Bruno and Daniels aren't ready yet.

dhackett1565 · Post #22 » by **dhackett1565** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:08 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
whats Bebe's then? This is where i got his rookie scale

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2013

Shamsports has his rookie scale at $1,468,900

We dont know what they will sign for, they can sign for as little as 80% of the rookie scale or as much as 120% we just dont know. If we contribute to Bebe's buyout i could see Masai offering him 80% of the rookie scale. Regardless its not a lot different, maybe a few thousand not a difference of 2.2 million like you listed.

BeBe's is 1,419,200. 16th pick in 2013. So use the 2013-14 scale on cbafaq.

And approximately 99% of all rookies ever have signed for the full 120%. I can't see why we would assume anything else. Even if we end up contributing more than the 600k for the buyout via signing bonus, it would top up to the 120% in the first year anyway, cap wise.

DeRozanTho · Post #23 » by **DeRozanTho** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:10 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
DeRozanTho wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but we are allowed to go over the cap to re-sign GV and 2pat and still use our MLE right? Also, how much can we afford to give GV+2pat if we still want enough cap space to make a max offer the following year?

correct on the 1st part.

to answer the 2nd part i dont know. Depends what Lowrys year 2 number is and what Vasquez & Patterson sign for. To give you a ballpark number if Vasquez & Patterson take 4.5 & 5.5 respectively that would leave us at around 47 million (lowry at 12, Demar, Novak, Val, Ross, Bruno, Bebe, 2015 1st, Vasquez at 4.5, Patterson at 5.5).

Should be enough for max cap space.

Thanks

Hate to say it but unless Masai has another deal lined up, I think only one of GV/2pat will come back this year based on our salary cap situation for the following year. I really think Masai wants to have enough cap space to offer the max to someone. We still have a glaring hole at the 3 spot that needs to be looked at.

Skeezo · Post #24 » by **Skeezo** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:10 am

These are my rough estimates... I have 13.6m below the tax, if we are paying Kyle an even 12m over the 4 years...

dhackett1565 · Post #25 » by **dhackett1565** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:12 am

Oh, and your QO's for PP and GV are off - they were modified by PP not meeting the starter criteria and GV meeting them. Doesn't really matter, as it doesn't play into the cap situation unless one of them decides to accept it, but thought you might be interested to know.

RapsFanInOhio · Post #26 » by **RapsFanInOhio** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:12 am

I don't think you should write off Carter just yet.

RapsFanInOhio · Post #27 » by **RapsFanInOhio** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:13 am

And I think they prioritize Carter over Pat and Vasquez. There are cheaper options out there than Pat and Vasquez, and Carter does things that go beyond on court value.

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #28 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:15 am

Skeezo wrote:These are my rough estimates... I have 13.6m below the tax, if we are paying Kyle an even 12m over the 4 years...

Nice work! Bebe's is a tad too high it's 1.4 from the looks of it and Fields is 6.25. Other than that we have around the same number 14 million below the tax.

We need to move Novak. Getting an expiring for him is huge for our FA plans next year.

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #29 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:17 am

dhackett1565 wrote:Oh, and your QO's for PP and GV are off - they were modified by PP not meeting the starter criteria and GV meeting them. Doesn't really matter, as it doesn't play into the cap situation unless one of them decides to accept it, but thought you might be interested to know.

What sham has listed is what I put. He's always accurate with his numbers so I will go by what he says on his site. Perhaps PM him (he's on this site somewhere) and let him know.

Skeezo · Post #30 » by **Skeezo** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:21 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
Skeezo wrote:These are my rough estimates... I have 13.6m below the tax, if we are paying Kyle an even 12m over the 4 years...

Nice work! Bebe's is a tad too high it's 1.4 from the looks of it and Fields is 6.25. Other than that we have around the same number 14 million below the tax.

We need to move Novak. Getting an expiring for him is huge for our FA plans next year.

Thanks

Agreed with Novak... Will make a big difference for 2015...

I went off the fact that he would fit into this years #16 Pick Salary Cap Slot which is 1,468,000... Add in the 20% increase which he will get to help with his buyout & rounded up to 1.8m... I round up a bit just to make it easier, which is why our numbers are a little off as well...

agentzero2010 · Post #31 » by **agentzero2010** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:26 am

Wow we are carrying a lot of dead weight contracts in Hayes, fields and Novak. Can Masai package them along with a pick to acquire a solid role player from a team that is trying to tank like Thaddeus Young?

Fields, Novak, 2016 NY pick and 2 second round picks for Thaddeus Young (sounds a lot like the bargnani deal)

We get a player who can contribute now with a reasonable contract as oppose to a pick 2 years from now. The sixers get to tank, save money and stash a couple of picks. Not a bad idea.

Crazomali · Post #32 » by **Crazomali** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:34 am

Amnesty Fields

bigscrims · Post #33 » by **bigscrims** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:44 am

Crazomali wrote:Amnesty Fields

We already used it on Kleiza...and even if we still had it, only Amir would be eligible.

Skeezo · Post #34 » by **Skeezo** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:44 am

Crazomali wrote:Amnesty Fields

Ha, If it were only possible... If it were me though it would be Novak getting that call... Can live with one more year of Landry... 2 more years of Novak, not so much...

Crazomali · Post #35 » by **Crazomali** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:51 am

What about using the stretch provision on landry Fields

SkywalkerAC · Post #36 » by **SkywalkerAC** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:56 am

Pretty tough call which really depends on the offers they get or whether Vasquez is ready to sign on for cheap to be the backup. Patterson will likely get an offer that will take a sizeable chunk out of this 14 mill and cap space in years hence so he might be the better bet (to not match). Maybe you let both of them walk and make do with the MLE and minimums. I have no idea at this point but 14 mill is plenty of dough to put together a winner without mortgaging the future too heavily.

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #37 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 7:03 am

Crazomali wrote:What about using the stretch provision on landry Fields

You stretch out his cap hit over a few years. I would rather have big cap space next summer than use this provision and have it remaining on our cap.

Ackshun · Post #38 » by **Ackshun** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 7:17 am

I think we have overvaluing these two.

They flourished in our system in half a season. Not to mention Ppat was not himself post injury.

There's just too little a sample size to warrant any contracts above the current numbers.

sweetcity · Post #39 » by **sweetcity** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 7:26 am

I love Vince and one day we'll all get a re-union with him hopefully (jersey in the rafters)

But honestly I'd rather see him go to San Antonio of OKC and take a stab at a title

hillbilly hare · Post #40 » by **hillbilly hare** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 8:08 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
Roland Brice wrote:What's the situation that allows us to use the MLE?

when your over the cap/under the tax you can use the full MLE. When your over the tax you get the mini MLE or taxpayer MLE. We currently are under but i dont expect us to use the MLE or part of it to sign anyone if it pushes us over the tax limit. 14 million between GV & PP is surely doable but you want to leave wiggle room for trades and such. We are also almost at the roster limit. That depth chart would be at 14 guys (the max is 15) under contract.

Re. the 14M for Vasquez and Patterson, are you talking about re-signing them for around 7M apiece to multiyear deals? I like them, but I wouldn't be in on that. They are solid backups, maybe very good backups, but solid backups are not really hard to find. They are always the Dunleavys and Livingstons and Augustins and Belinellis and

I think that's too many guys in the 6-7M salary range, a la Clownangelo. The old adage that 1 star is better than 2 solid contributors is true. There's only 1 Popovich in the league.

With a huge amount of expirings, e.g. everybody except Lowry, Demar, Ross, Jonas, Novak and the draftees, I'd prefer to go into the 2015 off-season with something like 28M in cap space.

Target 1: Millsap to take over as starting PF. All-star calibre player, tough as nails, can lead by example. Great addition to young team looking to contend. Salary? 12.5M?

Target 2: We have to address the SF position, unless Ross blows up this year. In case he looks more like a good 6th man that a starter, there should be a few targets out there. And some of that depends on contracts guys like Deng and Hayward and maybe even Parsons get this year, e.g. if they sign one-year deals because they don't get an offer they like.
We could make bold offers for young restricted free agents like Leonard or Tobias Harris of Jimmy Butler. Have to watch the latter two re. development this year, particularly outside shooting. Harris in particular could be a beast down the road. Still only 22 I think.

Having cap space is not only for signing guys either. You can trade for guys on bigger contracts and use pure cap space to take on their salaries.