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U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario

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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#21 » by Hair Canada » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:42 pm

bozothepope wrote:
Hair Canada wrote:
As for the current team, I wrote in the preview that I don't think it's the most talented Canadian recruiting class in recent years without Barrett. To put things in perspective, I think that only Nembhard, Lawson and maybe Miller might be considered top-50 recruits.


You don't think Addison Patterson is a top 50 recruit in his class?


Yes, I do, arguably even top-20. But he was born in 2001, and I was focusing in this comment on those born in 2000 since that's the comparison group with the Americans (all born in 2000) for the question about how many teams they can put up that might be better than ours.

And thanks for the correction on the commentator. I thought it was Ryan, who I think is the guy doing the OSBA commentating. But yes, Jason is excellent and knowledgeable and so is Amy.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#22 » by Hair Canada » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:57 pm

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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#23 » by Hair Canada » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:39 am

As expected, team Canada with an easy blowout in the quarterfinals over Panama, 105-39. Next comes Puerto Rico in the semis, en route to the ultimate final against the Americans.

Lawson was still resting. Nembhard (7, 6 and 6) and Miller (8 and 6) with mellow games, sitting out in the second half. Neath and Brown both had a fairly good game, with Neath showing a nice outside stroke.

Patterson really took over in this one, showing his full potential and finishing with 26, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 steals in 25 minutes. For the first time in the tournament, his outside shot was also falling in, though it remains one of the weaker parts of his game (an inconsistent release and form on his shot). Otherwise, he's got a very smooth offensive game -- he sort of glides on the court, has a great handle, truly ambidextrous, and good court vision. Still hasn't shown any mid-range game at all, so there's definitely room for further improvement as a scorer. The most encouraging thing about Patterson in this tournament is that he's showing much more defensive commitment than I've seen from his in the past. He moves his feet and doesn't give up on plays. Still not a great defender, but no longer a black hole. I think he's establishing himself this summer as a top-20 player in the class of 2020 in North America and if he reclassifies to 2019 he'll likely be our best player coming out of high school next year. His recruitment should really pick up after this summer (I once heard him say that his dream is to play for Kentucky).
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#24 » by aminiaturebuddha » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:10 am

So the US had a closer than expected win in their semifinal over Argentina earlier, and then Canada really had to grind out a win against Puerto Rico. Canada did a lot of bad things in this game, from missing free throws, to some clueless defence, to lazy play chasing down loose balls. They'd better clean up a lot of that if they have a hope of keeping it close against the US tomorrow.

A few other thoughts:

Miller and Nembhard continue to impress. Miller is just everywhere, and his drive and activity mean he's always in the mix and contributing all over the court. Nembhard's IQ and skill continues to keep Canada focussed even when things aren't going well. At the beginning of the 4th quarter, PR even tried doubling Nembhard out on the perimeter to get the ball out of his hands, and about 3 times in a row he just made a calm play to get the ball to the open man, leading to a good shot. Needless to say, PR abandoned that strategy quickly.

Bediako was basically useless out there. His offensive game has never been great, but he couldn't even keep smaller PR players off the offensive glass for most of the time he was out there. I was really hoping I would have seen some improvement from him this year over last year, but it hasn't shown much so far in this tournament.

On a side note about the broadcast, the "Ref cam" was a really annoying gimmick that they need to get rid of immediately. The picture quality was terrible, and you couldn't really see what was going on. One time, they had the ref cam on during a free throw, and you couldn't even see if the player made it or not. Just awful.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#25 » by CrookedJ » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Super psyched to be going tonight. Looks like two excellent games for the medals!!

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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#26 » by TheBatman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Are the games on tv?
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#27 » by Hair Canada » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:33 pm

TheBatman wrote:Are the games on tv?


Can stream them through the FIBA website:

http://www.fiba.basketball/americas/u18/2018/games
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#28 » by CrookedJ » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Yeah they are using YouTube to stream them.

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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#29 » by Hair Canada » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:40 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:So the US had a closer than expected win in their semifinal over Argentina earlier, and then Canada really had to grind out a win against Puerto Rico. Canada did a lot of bad things in this game, from missing free throws, to some clueless defence, to lazy play chasing down loose balls. They'd better clean up a lot of that if they have a hope of keeping it close against the US tomorrow.

A few other thoughts:

Miller and Nembhard continue to impress. Miller is just everywhere, and his drive and activity mean he's always in the mix and contributing all over the court. Nembhard's IQ and skill continues to keep Canada focussed even when things aren't going well. At the beginning of the 4th quarter, PR even tried doubling Nembhard out on the perimeter to get the ball out of his hands, and about 3 times in a row he just made a calm play to get the ball to the open man, leading to a good shot. Needless to say, PR abandoned that strategy quickly.

Bediako was basically useless out there. His offensive game has never been great, but he couldn't even keep smaller PR players off the offensive glass for most of the time he was out there. I was really hoping I would have seen some improvement from him this year over last year, but it hasn't shown much so far in this tournament.

On a side note about the broadcast, the "Ref cam" was a really annoying gimmick that they need to get rid of immediately. The picture quality was terrible, and you couldn't really see what was going on. One time, they had the ref cam on during a free throw, and you couldn't even see if the player made it or not. Just awful.


Very good observations. Andrew didn't have the best of games yesterday. The PR length made it a bit harder for him. But he's such a floor general that even in a game like this the team looked lost in the few minutes he sat out.

I'm really curious to see Miller tonight. He's certainly improved his skill as well, but still has some issues with creativity around the basket and driving to his left. Tonight will be a test against players who can match him physically and athletically. If he can still bring his A-game, it will show that he's really made progress.

Also totally agree on the ref cam gimmick. Nice as to see for a few seconds, but completely over-used and quite annoying. This is what happens when new techs become available -- people often feel the need to use them just because they are there regardless of how helpful they really are.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#30 » by polvosonic » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:28 pm

Been to all of the evening games this past week. Some really great performaces and interesting prospects.

Prediction on all tournament team:

Kolby White (USA)
Andrew Nembhard (Can)
Quentin Grimes (USA)
Francisco Caffaro (Arg)
Manny Miller (Can)

In my opinion, Caffaro is the best pro prospect in the tourney. Very high offensive IQ, amazing court vision and tremendous passer for a big.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#31 » by Hair Canada » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Well, unfortunately, the final was quite underwhelming. The US came ready for revenge and pumped up. Intensive defensively and really good offensively (Hurt, Grimes and Anthony were particularly great). Canada, on the other hand, had a really hard time against the length, physicality, and athleticism, but mainly was really disappointing defensively, with very lacklustre effort, especially in transition (very few fouls to stop the flow). So the final result in terms of winners was certainly not surprising (I wrote a couple of times here that a Canadian win would be a really big upset), but I was certainly hoping for a more competitive game.

It's tempting to say that things would look different if Barrett were around. To an extent, they surely would. But the reality is that the differences between Canada (and any other team) and the US on a good day are just too big. And unlike other teams, Canada plays the NBA game -- relying more on individual abilities (even Nembhard is primarily a P&R player) than team play. In this style of game, the US is just bigger, stronger, deeper, more athletic, more talented, and more skilled. So you need a really good day (especially from 3), plus the US falling asleep a bit to keep things interesting. It happened two years ago in the same competition and certainly last year in the U19 WC. But realistically, we can't expect it to be the case every time.

Stepping out to look at the bigger picture, team Canada had a fairly good tournament, and the most important take is that there are 3 or 4 players on this team that might grow up into future contributors to the senior Canadian team. Maybe I'll write some more on the individual performances later.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#32 » by CrookedJ » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:44 pm

Had a lot of fun at the bronze and gold games, the Argentina Peurto Rico game was great. Argentina had great guard play in the second half to take it. Giordano in particular was great.

Canada USA we just couldn't hang. Grimes and Anthony are amazing. Anthony celling is peak Derrick Rose IMO. Ie MVP ceiling. So athletic and slick with the ball. Dynamic finisher through contact. Several and 1s. Shooting form needs work. Great defender.

Grimes is just a great, strong wing player he was a man among boys against Canada.

Miller, Lawson and Tyrese Samuel we're our best. Nembhart had a meh game, we could do nothing in the PnR which certainly did not help.

Around the tournament saw Greg Anthony, Jay Triano, John Calipari, Rowan Barret, Nav Bhattia....Nav was the most popular!

OKC had a scout sitting in our section, and there were other scouts everywhere taking notes. Great facility. We got to sit 4th row midcourt for $25!





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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#33 » by Hair Canada » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:28 am

TOURNAMENT SUMMARY:

Some final impressions from the championship – this time an individual summary of the tournament, focusing on the Canadian rotation players:

THE GOOD

Andrew Nembhard. Nembhard was clearly the best player on the Canadian team and was rightfully selected to the tournament’s first team. Led the tournament in assists (almost 9 a game) and steals (almost 3 a game). Sixth in scoring. Will be a great college PG. Very smart player, really composed, and showed some nice weapons for the next level, including good mid-range game, a very nice step-back shot, and good outside shooting (40% from 3). His main weakness remains a mediocre physical profile (strength, athleticism, and length) from an NBA point of view. This was especially obvious in the game against the US, where the length and athleticism of the US opponents really bothered him and caused him to miss shots and lose quite a few balls. As a student of the game, he’ll get better and learn how to better deal with these. But it does limit his NBA potential once he gets there.

Emmanuel Miller. The most surprising player for Canada. Gave a really fantastic tournament, scoring (fourth in the championship) and rebounding (eighth) very well. Showed a much better touch around the basket than what I’ve seen from him before, and even shot some threes with a nice touch, although he’s still reluctant from range. Gives great hustle on both ends of the floor and can play some PF in small ball, as he did here, but will have a hard time doing this against bigger and more physical players. Like Nembhard (and the Canadian team as a whole), the game against the US was a bit of a reality check. He’s very right-hand dominant, and even when going to his left, insists to finish with his right, which often leads to turnovers and predictable shots that are easy to contest. Still, I didn’t think he was an NBA prospect prior to this tournament, but I can now see him developing into a 3-and-D energy player from the bench. Really reminds me in many ways of Abu Kigab, who had a very similar role last year on the U19 team that won the world championship. Kigab didn’t look so good last year in his freshman year at Oregon, so hopefully, Miller can do better when he gets to the NCAA in 2019.

AJ Lawson. Really improved since his high school season. Scored the ball well (50% from the field; 44% from 3) and didn’t take many bad shots. Changed his 3-point shooting to a bit of a more flat-footed shot, which did well for his form and precision. Only played 4 full games, in which he scored almost 18 points a game. Also plays good defense (moves his feet well and is motivated) and is a good defensive rebounder. On the minus side, he’s still very thin, despite putting on some extra pounds, and will likely always have a skinny frame. Cannot finish well with contact against stronger players, which was really obvious against the US. Also didn’t pass the ball very well and doesn’t create much for others. More a SG than a CG, and he’ll need to get significantly stronger to compete with the opposition at that position. Clear NBA potential, but still has a long way to go.

Addison Patterson. A bit of an up-and-down tournament for Patterson, who is arguably the best NBA prospect in this team. Had a couple of weaker games, but mostly managed to have a positive influence and even had moments where he took over the game and showed his full potential. A really smooth player, with excellent handle, above the rim athleticism (had a couple of impressive poster dunks) and a lot of finesse on his finishes. This time around he also shot the ball much better from beyond the arc (39% for the tournament). Still has no mid-range game, and he’ll have to work on that to become a better offensive threat at the next level. I think he can also do even more in terms of passing and creating for others. Showed some nice flashes of that in Ste. Catherines. All in all, I liked what I saw, including on defense, where his effort level and awareness were much higher than before (As well as his general demeanor and attitude). Established himself as a top-20 player in the class of 2020 in North America. But I think he’ll eventually reclassify and become our best 2019 player.

THE BAD

Jaden Bediako started the tournament quite horribly, unable to score even from point blank and unable to keep up with anyone on defense. Improved a bit as the tournament progressed, but finished with a measly 38% from the field, although all shots were about two feet from the basket. Also often got blocked by smaller players. His big weaknesses (slow, no elevation, and quite clumsy) were fully revealed. A fairly good rebounder and shot blocker, who will still go to a D1 college and might still have a decent pro career due to his size (long and strong). But I think there’s no chance he’ll ever get to the NBA. Maybe in Europe.

Tyrese Samuel. Unlike Bediako, he does fit the modern game as an agile, lengthy, and athletic combo-forward. But although I didn’t have very high expectations from him (see preview), he still managed to disappoint. Was able to rebound fairly well and also had a few nice blocks and putbacks, reminding us of his potential. But he shot the ball really poorly (38% from the field) and looked really lost under the rim on the offensive end. Very poor touch and orientation around the basket, rushed shots, and showed a pretty weak feel for the game. Took bad decisions and lacked confidence. It might be that he’s on a down period right now, but despite the physical tools, he just doesn’t look like an elite player. Hopefully can turn things around going back to play in Canada for his last high school season next year.

THE EHH

Joel Brown. Showed more or less what I expected. A very good and energetic defensive presence and great speed and ball handling. But not much of an offensive threat. Plays a rushed game all too often, doesn’t finish well against length and has almost no outside game. Still a mid- to high-major NCAA prospect, but probably not much more than that.

Jahcobi Neath. Played 16 minutes a game. Shot the ball pretty well (39% from 3) and didn’t shy away from the ball. But his PG skills are quite mediocre at this point and he lacks a degree of creativity and finesse.

Wheza Panzo. Was okay from the bench. As I said in the preview, doesn’t do any one thing particularly well. A better defensive player at this point. His offense is quite rudimentary and in this tournament, he was especially weak on that side of the floor (less than 30% from the field). Did not play in the last two games due to injury.


Jevonnie Scott, Connor Vreeken, and Charles Bediako didn’t play enough to comment on their playing. Vreeken is a good 3-point shooter, but that’s about it. Bediako’s youth really showed throughout. Which makes the decision to take him over Ben Hendriks even stranger.


We'll see these guys next year in the 2019 U19 world championship, where hopefully they'll again be medal-contenders.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#34 » by CrookedJ » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:03 pm

Nice break downs, I can't comment on the whole tourney as the final was the only game I watched start to end.

Agreed for the most part. Samuel showed something against the US. His three pointer looked rough though, and his decisions to take were poor.

I had heard so much positive about Patterson, but he was terrible against USA. The box scores show only 2 TOs but my impression was almost every time he got the ball he was tunnel vision driving into a crowd, to almost entirely negative results. As a kid who turned 17 just this month, and playing against really good competition I will obviously cut him some slack for one game, but he was the weakest link in the final IMO.
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Re: U18 FIBA Americas in Ontario 

Post#35 » by Hair Canada » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:32 pm

CrookedJ wrote:Nice break downs, I can't comment on the whole tourney as the final was the only game I watched start to end.

Agreed for the most part. Samuel showed something against the US. His three pointer looked rough though, and his decisions to take were poor.

I had heard so much positive about Patterson, but he was terrible against USA. The box scores show only 2 TOs but my impression was almost every time he got the ball he was tunnel vision driving into a crowd, to almost entirely negative results. As a kid who turned 17 just this month, and playing against really good competition I will obviously cut him some slack for one game, but he was the weakest link in the final IMO.


Yes, he didn't have a good game against the US, but to be fair, no one did. At least he kept trying, which for me is an encouraging thing -- players who do not just disappear when the competition gets tougher. We'll have another chance to see Addison soon, this time against his age group in the U17 world championship. He should be even more dominant there. Mainly, I hope to see him keep the positive attitude even when he's the alpha dog.
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