Masai: "Scottie isn't a shot maker right now but that will grow. You build around him for his winning mentality"

[brownbobcat]

I think the problem is that people think your best player, has to be your best or natural scorer.

Scottie can probably average 25 points, on high efficiency, but that's not the goal right now.

Why do you think he can average 25ppg on high efficiency? He’s never been an efficient player in his 4 year career.

I mean, where's the evidence he can even average 20 on high efficiency?

Listen, I'm rooting for the guy and I think it's possible , but making excuses about "that's not the goal right now" is pure copium.

[tsherkin]

I am saying they will likely lessen his USG but he's unlikely to go from around 20 ppg to 12-14 ppg right away even if that ends up being his more ideal offensive role on a contending team. They will lessen the load for him but it won't be that drastic most likely, he will probably still be scoring around 16-18 ppg next season.

Oh yeah, I don't expect them to totally tank his usage right away. It's going to be a pickle anyway, because if we reduce it too much, we'll lose some of his playmaking. But here's the deal. If we drop him down to 13 FGA/g (3.7 FGA/g fewer than this season) and nothing changes, he's gonna be a 16.6 ppg scorer already, at about 56.4% TS. Which still sucks. And that's actually assuming he matches the career-high 2FG% he set as a rookie (54.3%), shoots 30% from 3, 78% from the line AND draws at .300 FTr, which would be a career-high as well. And that STILL leaves him 1.1% below current league average.

We need him to be league-average, but he's so bad at basically everything that it's a problem for us. It gets him closer, I guess, and there is a point where we're gonna have to tolerate his inability if we intend to exploit his playmaking... but that playmaking is also going to get cannibalized some when Ingram gets here, so... I guess the hope is that between BI, RJ, maybe a decent draft pick and hopefully improvement from Gradey, he'll outperform those specifics.

But I have fairly limited faith in Scottie at this point. And those projections are not favorable at all.

[MiamiSPX]

I think the problem is that people think your best player, has to be your best or natural scorer.

Scottie can probably average 25 points, on high efficiency, but that's not the goal right now.

So basically he could be a top 10 player if we wanted, but we are just saving it for the future? The number of guys who are averaging over 25PPG on high efficiency is a single-digit number, and it's some of the best players in the world.

[Raps in 4]

Delusional.

[Raps in 4]

I think the problem is that people think your best player, has to be your best or natural scorer.

Scottie can probably average 25 points, on high efficiency, but that's not the goal right now.

Lowry was our best player without being the top scorer, but he was still an efficient and aggressive scorer when needed to be.

Scottie is basically Draymond Green right now. We need way more from him as a former 4th overall pick and the supposed franchise player.

[tsherkin]

I think the problem is that people think your best player, has to be your best or natural scorer.

Scottie can probably average 25 points, on high efficiency, but that's not the goal right now.

Lowry was our best player, but he was still an efficient and aggressive scorer when needed to be.

Scottie is basically Draymond Green right now.

But not as good at passing OR defense. Which, to be fair, isn't a big dig because Draymond is actually excellent at both of those things.

[TorontoBarneys]

You're helming a team that's playing in a foreign country compared to literally every other team in the NBA, has a marked history of being unable to attract potent free agents, cannot keep their stars around for long, especially through trades, and you decide that you would rather not maximize the one avenue you have of having as solid of a chance as anyone of getting a star: the top of the lottery. The one avenue where you have the chance to bring in a potential star from day 1 and acclimate them to your city and country for at least 7 years of control.

This logic will never compute for me, and you have to seriously be gargling this dude's junk butter if you are still fully bought in regarding his "vision" (he's coasting and has none). Thank you for helping engineer our first chip, now enjoy your annual $20 milly until the big bad white racist Ed Rogers forces you out, or something.

[ConSarnit]

hes not a shot maker because he takes too long of shots and too often...if he cut more and drove it more and posted up more for closer looks his shot making ability would be a lot better

He’s not shown the ability to do these things though. Maybe cutting and even that’s questionable. The years where his cut frequency has been “decent” the results/efficiency have been poor. The years where he’s be efficient his frequency was very low. He can’t beat people off the dribble so his drive game is limited. He’s never been above 50th percentile in post-ups in any season.

For Barnes to become efficient from the play-types you’ve listed he would need to radically change the way he plays. I don’t see how he ever becomes a real driving threat. He should be better at posting up because of his strength but the numbers have been poor year after year.

Barnes plays like a wing (who cannot shoot) and the things we want him to do to up his efficiency he’s never really been good at either. If Barnes doesn’t improve his shooting he’ll have to radically change his play style to reach above average efficiency. When you have 4 years of a guy taking lots of jumpers it’s usually because he doesn’t have any other options.

[Raps in 4]

You're helming a team that's playing in a foreign country compared to literally every other team in the NBA, has a marked history of being unable to attract potent free agents, cannot keep their stars around for long, especially through trades, and you decide that you would rather not maximize the one avenue you have of having as solid of a chance as anyone of getting a star: the top of the lottery. The one avenue where you have the chance to bring in a potential star from day 1 and acclimate them to your city and country for at least 7 years of control.

This logic will never compute for me, and you have to seriously be gargling this dude's junk butter if you are still fully bought in regarding his "vision" (he's coasting and has none). Thank you for helping engineer our first chip, now enjoy your annual $20 milly until the big bad white racist Ed Rogers forces you out, or something.

I'm willing to wait and see who Masai picks in this draft. If he doesn't find a superstar (and he probably won't, given how late we'll be picking), I'm ready to move on from him. The dude has clearly lost the plot.

[ConSarnit]

I think the problem is that people think your best player, has to be your best or natural scorer.

Scottie can probably average 25 points, on high efficiency, but that's not the goal right now.

Lowry was our best player, but he was still an efficient and aggressive scorer when needed to be.

Scottie is basically Draymond Green right now.

But not as good at passing OR defense. Which, to be fair, isn't a big dig because Draymond is actually excellent at both of those things.

I’m of the belief that Barnes has to be able to play C if his shooting doesn’t come around. If he doesn’t I’m not even sure he’s a positive contributing player.

For a player of Barnes skills he has to provide good-very good rim protection or I don’t really see what his role is on a good team. If I try to remove bias would I be very high on Barnes if he were on another team? I doubt it. Non-spacing, inefficient PF who is very good defensively isn’t a role that really exists in a high level team. Draymond was able to play C and defend at an elite level. Barnes isn’t there yet. Draymond also played with 2 top 5 shooters of all time which mitigated his lack of scoring/spacing. He also never made the max. If we were playoff bound I would be very confident our offense would collapse given the Barnes/Poeltl pairing and its complete lack of shooting.

[Scase]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:

“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

Meh, it was a session in front of STH and he had to be in his salesman mode. I've always taken this to simply mean he's our best player right now, which is not untrue. Like you said yesterday, he's not an idiot....it will become "this is Player X's team" if and when we find said better player.

What was notable to me is that this is, I believe, the 3rd time he has candidly said that we need "that 2nd player" or a "running mate" for Scottie.

When isn't he though? Masai is always trying to sell the on court product, and that's his job, what he says should always be taken with a massive grain of salt.

The "2nd player" comments are just obvious, Scottie is the most talented (ceiling) player on the roster, but he's not good enough to pull this team based on his talent alone. The problem is, that Masai always thinks that finding that "2nd player" can be done just as easily in the low lotto or trading for, when history says otherwise.

The problem is you need to find those players before you try to exit a rebuild.

You're helming a team that's playing in a foreign country compared to literally every other team in the NBA, has a marked history of being unable to attract potent free agents, cannot keep their stars around for long, especially through trades, and you decide that you would rather not maximize the one avenue you have of having as solid of a chance as anyone of getting a star: the top of the lottery. The one avenue where you have the chance to bring in a potential star from day 1 and acclimate them to your city and country for at least 7 years of control.

This logic will never compute for me, and you have to seriously be gargling this dude's junk butter if you are still fully bought in regarding his "vision" (he's coasting and has none). Thank you for helping engineer our first chip, now enjoy your annual $20 milly until the big bad white racist Ed Rogers forces you out, or something.

The thing that aggravates me the most about this mentality isn't that they think that the other avenues are good/bad rouotes to take, but that the absolute and unequivocal strength of this FO is drafting, and they refuse to lean into it.

The supposed face of the team and "that guy" is a guy they drafted 4th, finding a Siakam/FVV a decade ago is not a sign you don't need high lotto picks, it just reeks of ego.

[tsherkin]

I’m of the belief that Barnes has to be able to play C if his shooting doesn’t come around. If he doesn’t I’m not even sure he’s a positive contributing player.

For a player of Barnes skills he has to provide good-very good rim protection or I don’t really see what his role is on a good team. If I try to remove bias would I be very high on Barnes if he were on another team? I doubt it. Non-spacing, inefficient PF who is very good defensively isn’t a role that really exists in a high level team.

If we start running him at the 5, we're essentially giving up on anything but defense and rebounding from him... at which point, we're better off chasing a real center, IMHO.

Draymond was able to play C and defend at an elite level. Barnes isn’t there yet. Draymond also played with 2 top 5 shooters of all time which mitigated his lack of scoring/spacing. He also never made the max. If we were playoff bound I would be very confident our offense would collapse given the Barnes/Poeltl pairing and its complete lack of shooting.

Yes, they were able to run Draymond at the 5 in those specific lineups with 2 of the ATG shooters in league history working their mojo. They had elite team-level defense and incredible shooting. And then later, also Kevin Durant. They also often fielded Andrew Bogut or Javale McGee for 15 or 20 mpg to help bolster their interior presence. And then they tried Cousins, which almost worked. Then they went back to like Draymond, OPJ, Wiggins and GPII. But yeah, Draymond's general lack of scoring punch worked out specifically because of Golden State's insane talent wealth.

[rapsincr]

i think scottie always has, and always will, expend too much energy on defense to be a high % shot maker. from everything i recall him saying i think he would prefer to be an impact defender than an impact scorer. watching him play i feel like he often hangs back and doesnt assert himself in the offense because he wants to be in position to get back on defense.

also, i think even shot to shot he rushes his mechanics and his shot doesnt look like a repeated motion still. and with how he pushes on defense with his build i think he doesnt have the stamina to play to his strengths on offense throughout a game.

just imo, could be wrong lol.

[djsunyc]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:

“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

is it b/c you don't think scottie is that type of player? he's describing a connective player that makes the team go. which i believe scottie is. as for shot maker, that doesn't mean he projects him to be a #1 option but a better scorer b/c we will have expectations next year so his shot diet will most likely change.

[tsherkin]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:

“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

is it b/c you don't think scottie is that type of player? he's describing a connective player that makes the team go. which i believe scottie is. as for shot maker, that doesn't mean he projects him to be a #1 option but a better scorer b/c we will have expectations next year so his shot diet will most likely change.

Mainly, it sounds like he has more faith in Scottie than makes sense to me. Maybe it's just him spinning PR, but "build around him," "that will develop" and stuff, I really don't love hearing him say things like that.

[djsunyc]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:



And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

is it b/c you don't think scottie is that type of player? he's describing a connective player that makes the team go. which i believe scottie is. as for shot maker, that doesn't mean he projects him to be a #1 option but a better scorer b/c we will have expectations next year so his shot diet will most likely change.

Mainly, it sounds like he has more faith in Scottie than makes sense to me. Maybe it's just him spinning PR, but "build around him," "that will develop" and stuff, I really don't love hearing him say things like that.

what i try to do is just take the macro of it - he likes scottie + yak so he wants them to be a part of it for now.

he likes darko so he wants him to be a part of it for now. and it sounds like they expect to win games next year. all the other stuff like "build around", etc - i just chalk all that up to PR.

proof will be in the pudding and if it's not working, he'll make moves. and his moves has been to add scorers (IQ + RJ + BI) which only lessens the scoring burden for scottie.

[Jerry Lucas]

I think the posters who don't even believe Scottie can be the 2nd best player on a contender anymore, need to start also calling out Masai on his continued disagreement with that assessment.

Exhitbit A:

On how long the rebuilding timeline has to be
“So yeah, if we get that second player, and one of your guys grows into being that guy, that’s how long it’s going to last. I’m not going to sit here and lie to people or tell them it’s going to last five years, because I want every shot or every chance at it. I’m going to tell you exactly what the reality is. As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.”

Exhibit B:

On the core of this team
“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

Can't have your cake and eat it too, because I'm seeing too much doubt in Masai's assessment of Scottie, but not enough criticism of Masai's assessment from these same posters.

[PushDaRock]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:



And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

is it b/c you don't think scottie is that type of player? he's describing a connective player that makes the team go. which i believe scottie is. as for shot maker, that doesn't mean he projects him to be a #1 option but a better scorer b/c we will have expectations next year so his shot diet will most likely change.

Mainly, it sounds like he has more faith in Scottie than makes sense to me. Maybe it's just him spinning PR, but "build around him," "that will develop" and stuff, I really don't love hearing him say things like that.

Realistically, what else is he supposed to say about a 23 year old he just gave a 5 year max contract to?

[TheGeneral99]

Can people at least admit that the arguments of Vanvleet and Siakam intentionally stifling his development were way overblown and wrong???

Scottie averaged 15ppg in his rookie season taking 13 shots a game while today he is averaging 20ppg taking 17 shots a game on reduced efficiency.

I remember a million threads back in 2021 of conspiracies that Fred and Siakam were trying to ruin Scottie's development and not giving him the ball enough.

[PushDaRock]

I think the posters who don't even believe Scottie can be the 2nd best player on a contender anymore, need to start also calling out Masai on his continued disagreement with that assessment.

Exhitbit A:

On how long the rebuilding timeline has to be
“So yeah, if we get that second player, and one of your guys grows into being that guy, that’s how long it’s going to last. I’m not going to sit here and lie to people or tell them it’s going to last five years, because I want every shot or every chance at it. I’m going to tell you exactly what the reality is. As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.”

Exhibit B:

On the core of this team
“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

Can't have your cake and eat it too, because I'm seeing too much doubt in Masai's assessment of Scottie, but not enough criticism of Masai's assessment from these same posters.

I'm not sure what exactly you want him called out on. If he says "we hope that will develop" instead of "that will develop", does that make you happier? Even those of us doubtful are hopeful that he develops his offensive game. Masai just gave him a 5 year max contract, he's not going to go picking at all his flaws in the media like we do on here.