Starting SF Graham or Moon

Ted Lasso · Post #21 » by **Ted Lasso** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 am

Bryans_Collar wrote:Ron Paul

Hassan, then?

vinzanity · Post #22 » by **vinzanity** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:41 am

Neither. JK should start at the 3 imo.

Buyaka · Post #23 » by **Buyaka** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:42 am

Joey gets my vote. Heck, I'll even consider Adams over the Moon we are seeing now.

garbage time · Post #24 » by **garbage time** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:44 am

From of what I seen so far, Graham.

bakafool · Post #25 » by **bakafool** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:48 am

Where's the option for Joey Crawford?

Kosta · Post #26 » by **Kosta** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:48 am

what a joke. Parker came out the last two pre's before this one and stunk it up and nobody was saying much. Moon although 27-28 is still a sophomore in the NBA, remember that. Smitch is just trying to get Graham some minutes so he can hopefully be a contributor off the bench, he did miss half the pre also. Jamario is the starter and I think he's been told that already, he'll be ready for the season. Some of you guys would honestly rather see Joey Graham start? Have you forgotten the last 3 seasons? Jamario was GREAT for us all of last year, give the guy the benefit of the doubt here. We know what he can do in real game play, Joey never provided even half of what Jamario brought on a consistent basis for us last season, never.

The vote is 30 to 9 for Joey??? :lol:

HighOctane · Post #27 » by **HighOctane** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:52 am

Jason Kapono. All the doubles head towards JO and Bosh and that means a happy Kapono.

jepjep · Post #28 » by **jepjep** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:53 am

if hassan continues his good play with the starters just like tonight... then Moon is the 12th man in this team. Joey needs to connect on his jumpshots because it's all there for him. he took 2 and missed to start the game and took 1 and missed at the start of the 3rd... Hassan was quite steady tonight and very active.... So Hassan's good play tonight just made Smitch job more difficult... but for my money, I'd settle for joey then hassan and then moon. For the backup PG, I'll take solomon for now and let ukic work out his jitters for a while.

vinzanity · Post #29 » by **vinzanity** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:55 am

HighOctane wrote:Jason Kapono. All the doubles head towards JO and Bosh and that means a happy Kapono.

Yeah, I really think that's the way to look at it, although it'd be nice if JO can also operate down low instead of occasionally floating around the perimeter. Once he knows where he has to be to get the ball, that should create more shots from the perimeter and it would not surprise me to the very least that JK goes from "worst to first" (metaphorically speaking, after hearing a lot of y'all talk smack about his game).

Kosta · Post #30 » by **Kosta** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:56 am

jepjep wrote:if hassan continues his good play with the starters just like tonight... then Moon is the 12th man in this team. Joey needs to connect on his jumpshots because it's all there for him. he took 2 and missed to start the game and took 1 and missed at the start of the 3rd... Hassan was quite steady tonight and very active.... So Hassan's good play tonight just made Smitch job more difficult... but for my money, I'd settle for joey then hassan and then moon. For the backup PG, I'll take solomon for now and let ukic work out his jitters for a while.

Rapcity_11 · Post #31 » by **Rapcity_11** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:57 am

jepjep wrote:if hassan continues his good play with the starters just like tonight... then Moon is the 12th man in this team. Joey needs to connect on his jumpshots because it's all there for him. he took 2 and missed to start the game and took 1 and missed at the start of the 3rd... Hassan was quite steady tonight and very active.... So Hassan's good play tonight just made Smitch job more difficult... but for my money, I'd settle for joey then hassan and then moon. For the backup PG, I'll take solomon for now and let ukic work out his jitters for a while.

Really man? Really??

AlvinWilliams_fan · Post #32 » by **AlvinWilliams_fan** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:58 am

jepjep wrote:if hassan continues his good play with the starters just like tonight... then Moon is the 12th man in this team. Joey needs to connect on his jumpshots because it's all there for him. he took 2 and missed to start the game and took 1 and missed at the start of the 3rd... Hassan was quite steady tonight and very active.... So Hassan's good play tonight just made Smitch job more difficult... but for my money, I'd settle for joey then hassan and then moon. For the backup PG, I'll take solomon for now and let ukic work out his jitters for a while.

green font? :dontknow:

Raptor_Jesus · Post #33 » by **Raptor_Jesus** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:03 am

i voted for both because it let me.

NUNBETTA · Post #34 » by **NUNBETTA** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:09 am

The difference is effort and defense. If Joey can match Moon's defensive ability, he starts. It's a rather bleak situation, regardless of who you choose. I will say, though, that when Joey is playing well, he's easier to fit into the concept of our offense than Moon is, because Joey doesn't take bad shots, and for all of his limitations, he's learned how to be quasi effective in two areas: mid-range pull up jumper, and driving on the baseline.

Offensively, Moon hasn't figured out how to be effective. He makes the occasional open 3-pointer, but save that, he offers nothing offensively.

If Joey can keep from getting blown by on defense, he'll end up being the more effective of the two players.

Having said all of that, I've still never had any faith in Joey.

inrapscity · Post #35 » by **inrapscity** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

rudy fernandez. lol

i'm hating these options. BC needs to trade for a nice wing.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #36 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:51 am

I think for most of us we had J. Moon penciled in as the starting SF before preseason. I still would like to think it is Moon, but I'm not so sure anymore. Moon was pretty good for us last year, but Joey Graham has played pretty well recently and tonight looked pretty good w/ Bosh and O'Neal than Moon did. Granted this Lakers game is the only one I have seen, nonetheless though Graham has put up good numbers so far this preseason. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it just might be Joey G...

Anatomize · Post #37 » by **Anatomize** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:28 am

It's still just preseason, some players don't show up until it really matters.

For some players, it's simply a measuring tool of the new skills they've worked on during the offseason. For other players, it's a shot at more playing time. For some, it's just a warm up for the real thing.

I don't think it does justice to any of our players to judge them on a game-by-game basis as many people here do.

Some here are now saying Hassan Adams is good after completely trashing him in days prior to today.

As for me, I voted for Graham, but that's simply because he oozes with potential. When Graham isn't over thinking the game and playing simple, he looks very solid. There are only a handful of guys that dunk as hard as him (stromile, r. gay) to name some.

Moon will show up, and continue giving us all the intangibles we had hoped for. I think someone really needs to teach Jose to quit relying on weakside and help defense and to simply man up his defender. When he plays on ball pressure he seems to be quite effective, I dislike seeing him automatically shade players to one side.

I've also grown tiresome of seeing us continue to utilize our PGs to double team in the box. Watch in the 2nd half video, Bynum is about 20 feet away from the basket posting up Bosh and we ran over to help out. Bynum is not a mid range threat, why are we doubling so far from the basket; it seems like our coaches really struggle with some simple concepts. For example, instead of simply telling Bargs to approach/meet Gasol at the high post with his hands up high to deny the pass, he runs at him with his hands down, likewise in the post which forced us to double team and allow Gasol to dish it inside to Luke Walton.

I wish I could just meet with Sam and point out some of these simple defensive concepts that would make us a ton better at defense.

Post #38 » by **JYD** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:37 am

Seriously? C'mon it's not even close, Moon is superior. Joey cannot guard wing players because he never had the footspeed to adjust from guarding the 4 to the 3, and his wingspan sucks so he can't make up for getting blown by like Moon can. I'd love Joey to carve out a niche bench role (ahead of Kapono and as a backup PF, for example), but Joey will never start over Moon because of any actual ability he has. It would take disciplinary reasons for Graham to ever start ahead of Moon. Graham is much more suited to taking advantage of other bench players.

S.W.A.N · Post #39 » by **S.W.A.N** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:41 am

Wham! wrote:Seriously? C'mon it's not even close, Moon is superior. Joey cannot guard wing players because he never had the footspeed to adjust from guarding the 4 to the 3, and his wingspan sucks so he can't make up for getting blown by like Moon can. I'd love Joey to carve out a niche bench role (ahead of Kapono and as a backup PF, for example), but Joey will never start over Moon because of any actual ability he has. It would take disciplinary reasons for Graham to ever start ahead of Moon. Graham is much more suited to taking advantage of other bench players.

No to be disrespectful but that is just wrong. Joey is an excellent athletic specimen whos problems are mental not physical. If he gets his act togeather this season there is absolutely no reason why he cannot be sucessful as the starting small forward. He has a better mid range jumper than moon, actually slashes to the hoop and while doesn't excel at rebounding and defense like moon he can still be above average in these categories.

It doesn't take a rocket scientest to figure this out. If good joey comes out for the next couple months then moon is on his way to the bench, where he belongs...(not a slam of moon, his defense and rebounding should almost be mandetory with kapono and bargs)

Kosta · Post #40 » by **Kosta** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:00 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Wham! wrote:Seriously? C'mon it's not even close, Moon is superior. Joey cannot guard wing players because he never had the footspeed to adjust from guarding the 4 to the 3, and his wingspan sucks so he can't make up for getting blown by like Moon can. I'd love Joey to carve out a niche bench role (ahead of Kapono and as a backup PF, for example), but Joey will never start over Moon because of any actual ability he has. It would take disciplinary reasons for Graham to ever start ahead of Moon. Graham is much more suited to taking advantage of other bench players.

No to be disrespectful but that is just wrong. Joey is an excellent athletic specimen whos problems are mental not physical. If he gets his act togeather this season there is absolutely no reason why he cannot be sucessful as the starting small forward. He has a better mid range jumper than moon, actually slashes to the hoop and while doesn't excel at rebounding and defense like moon he can still be above average in these categories.

It doesn't take a rocket scientest to figure this out. If good joey comes out for the next couple months then moon is on his way to the bench, where he belongs...(not a slam of moon, his defense and rebounding should almost be mandetory with kapono and bargs)

Is the limited action we've seen of Moon in pre enough to say he hasn't improved on his jumper and slashing game? He's said that he worked on it a lot over the summer, so I'll take his word for it. He's come out slow, but he's probably playing a little out of his comfort zone, trying to be more versatile on offense, which is not his game. When he focuses on defense, boarding and shooting only when he's open, he'll be fine and 3x better than Joey. He's a better defender on the inside and the perimeter, shot blocker, better on the break, he has a higher b-ball I.Q, he's a better passer and he started 72 games for us last season so he knows how to work with Bosh/Calderon/Parker already. I came into this season believing Jamario would get better and I'm going to stick by that, he can be a really good player for us and I have no doubt in my mind Jamario has earned himself a spot in the starting line-up just from last season, at least to start the year out. Joey gets nothing, he's started 3 pre season games and he's not even looked that good and now he deserves to start? Screw that.