Bagnani's Contract an Albatross?

[A_wildstabatanything]

If you guys think Hedo is overpaid, then I don't know what you guys were expecting (other than perhaps better 4th quarter performances). He's currently down 2.7 points, 1.1 assists and 0.9 rebounds from last year. He's shooting a career best from the field and from beyond the arc as well as averaging a career best in blocks per game.

If the Raps were primed to contend for the next 3-4 years no one would complain about his contract. However, in a rebuilding situation Hedo becomes a major obstacle. It may be impossible to trade him and get away from it cleanly.

[magani]

Bargnani is not the problem... if you want to point fingers point it at the franchise player.

We don't have one.

I will go back to Hindsight Boulevard when I first joined this board. The first thread I started was titled, "Bosh is not and will not be a franchise player". I still feel the same way today. Has 7 years been enough to prove that ultimately Bosh is more of a problem than Bargnani. Bosh is supposed to be a leader and at least make this team respectable by his mere presence. Bosh is supposed to exhibit toughness. He's a finesse jumpshooting big who plays very weak defensively. He wants to be paid the maximum for all these great individual accomplishments, right? I think Bargnani is further down the totem pole in terms of what I'd define as an albatross for this team.

[Nostradunkus]

His contract is the best we have, 50 mil-5 years for a center who gives you 19+ppg is a bargain in this league, understand that guys like Anderson Vaerajo on CLE are making what Bargnani makes. Its a great contract, he just doesn't fit the center position beside Bosh, we need a defensive center to compliment Bargnani, or a banger to compliment Bosh.

To be fair, I think Bargnani's numbers might be a little inflated on a this team that stubornley tries to go with a outside shooting big at the starting C spot. Maybe Andrea couldnt sustain such a ppg without severly impacting the teams defense / rebounding / and team chemistry like we see now. 19ppg from outside shooting would be a luxury to have however, but not after basic needs are met first like defense and rebounding, especially from the position you need it most.

Even Kapono could average 20ppg if Colangelo started him, gave him the green light to shoot and sacrificed all our D so he could look somewhat useful. We have to remember Bargnani was handed everything on a platter, he didnt have to work for his starting spot,if it werent for the guy infront of him being traded, or our coach fired he wouldnt of made the starting lineup on his own.

[Jose_Matador]

His contract is the best we have, 50 mil-5 years for a center who gives you 19+ppg is a bargain in this league, understand that guys like Anderson Vaerajo on CLE are making what Bargnani makes. Its a great contract, he just doesn't fit the center position beside Bosh, we need a defensive center to compliment Bargnani, or a banger to compliment Bosh.

To be fair, I think Bargnani's numbers might be a little inflated on a this team that stubornley tries to go with a outside shooting big at the starting C spot. Maybe Andrea couldnt sustain such a ppg without severly impacting the teams defense / rebounding / and team chemistry like we see now. 19ppg from outside shooting would be a luxury to have however, but not after basic needs are met first like defense and rebounding, especially from the position you need it most.

Even Kapono could average 20ppg if Colangelo started him, gave him the green light to shoot and sacrificed all our D so he could look somewhat useful. We have to remember Bargnani was handed everything on a platter, he didnt have to work for his starting spot,if it werent for the guy infront of him being traded, or our coach fired he wouldnt of made the starting lineup on his own.

I agree with this except for the Json Kapono part, but I assume you were exaggerating lol ?

[Schad]

If you guys think Hedo is overpaid, then I don't know what you guys were expecting (other than perhaps better 4th quarter performances). He's currently down 2.7 points, 1.1 assists and 0.9 rebounds from last year. He's shooting a career best from the field and from beyond the arc as well as averaging a career best in blocks per game.

It's not his production, it's his age and the size of the contract...he was overpaid from the second the ink dried. It was just a matter of whether overpaying was worth it, with the chief benchmark being whether he improved the team enough to keep Bosh in the fold.

[Nostradunkus]

His contract is the best we have, 50 mil-5 years for a center who gives you 19+ppg is a bargain in this league, understand that guys like Anderson Vaerajo on CLE are making what Bargnani makes. Its a great contract, he just doesn't fit the center position beside Bosh, we need a defensive center to compliment Bargnani, or a banger to compliment Bosh.

To be fair, I think Bargnani's numbers might be a little inflated on a this team that stubornley tries to go with a outside shooting big at the starting C spot. Maybe Andrea couldnt sustain such a ppg without severly impacting the teams defense / rebounding / and team chemistry like we see now. 19ppg from outside shooting would be a luxury to have however, but not after basic needs are met first like defense and rebounding, especially from the position you need it most.

Even Kapono could average 20ppg if Colangelo started him, gave him the green light to shoot and sacrificed all our D so he could look somewhat useful. We have to remember Bargnani was handed everything on a platter, he didnt have to work for his starting spot,if it werent for the guy infront of him being traded, or our coach fired he wouldnt of made the starting lineup on his own.

I agree with this except for the Json Kapono part, but I assume you were exaggerating lol ?

No im dead seriouse. If Kapono had the coddling of a GM like Brian hed definately be close to a 20 ppg player. Hes put up a few 20+ point games on his own already as a Raptor and was starting to develope a viciouse pump fake and pentrate/dish game until BC pulled the plug. Only downside would be that Raptors would give up so much D they'd be last in the league.

[Marz]

As it stands, this team has no contracts that can be considered an "albatross". At the end of the season however, there is the possibilty that we gain an albatross contract of 130+ million for a non-franchise player that would cripple this teams' flexibility for the next six seasons. I really hope Bosh leaves, either for nothing or in a sign-and-trade, because I know he wouldn't even consider taking a penny less than the max, and he's no Lebron or Wade, he doesn't have "it".

You want to know what an albatross is? think Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand. Bargnani at 10 million an albatross? Cmon, give me a break.

[Avenger]

I don't think he's an albatross, you can still sell him with the age and potential argument. Chicago, Milwaukee, Philly, Memphis, OKC, LAC, NY are a few teams i think that would take on his salary.

[Jose_Matador]

No im dead seriouse. If Kapono had the coddling of a GM like Brian hed definately be close to a 20 ppg player. Hes put up a few 20+ point games on his own already as a Raptor and was starting to develope a viciouse pump fake and pentrate/dish game until BC pulled the plug. Only downside would be that Raptors would give up so much D they'd be last in the league.

First of all we are already the worst defensive team in the league baring no major injuries. Secondly I'm gonna disagree with your Kapono theory and sure most on this board would agree that Kapono does not have the tools to be a 20 ppg scorer night in and night out, you are missing the fact that teams have scouting reports and can close in on Kapono all game which would pretty much render him useless, feature or player or not. Simply put Jason Kapono is too inept offensively to be a 20 ppg guy, being a lights out shooter doesn't enable you to put up star numbers if shooting is all you can do, his ball handling is horrid, he can't penetrate, he has no inside game...your post is just ridiculous.

[FTW]

To be honest, even though I feel that Bosh is far and away a superior player in almost every facet of the game, I'm more open-minded about trading him and building around Bargs at the 4.

Why? Mainly Bosh's $18-21 million a year for the next 5+ years at the PF position, as opposed to Bargs' $10 million. The savings are significant; enough, in my mind, to spring for a true post player in that type of scenario, and even have enough left over for a little extra at the guard/wing position.

Of course, the time to do that might've been last year; not sure about Bosh's trade value right now, because GMs aren't going to give up important pieces when Bosh could just leave at the end of the year. And a sign-and-trade means that Bosh would probably have to "OK" the team first, which rules out getting players like Andrew Bogut, Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol, etc. etc.


But really, you know why I probably wouldn't mind doing that? Because Bargs seems (to me) to be the sort of defender that Bosh often has trouble with; long, very quick, and a good man defender. So it would be less likely (again, to me) for Bosh to come back here and blow up all over us and make me feel terrible about making that choice.


(Of course, it would probably be a 15 points on low percentages, 22-rebound game for Bosh if Bargs were to stay at C after he left... so we definitely need that post C )

FTW!

[Nostradunkus]

No im dead seriouse. If Kapono had the coddling of a GM like Brian hed definately be close to a 20 ppg player. Hes put up a few 20+ point games on his own already as a Raptor and was starting to develope a viciouse pump fake and pentrate/dish game until BC pulled the plug. Only downside would be that Raptors would give up so much D they'd be last in the league.

First of all we are already the worst defensive team in the league baring no major injuries. Secondly I'm gonna disagree with your Kapono theory and sure most on this board would agree that Kapono does not have the tools to be a 20 ppg scorer night in and night out, you are missing the fact that teams have scouting reports and can close in on Kapono all game which would pretty much render him useless, feature or player or not. Simply put Jason Kapono is too inept offensively to be a 20 ppg guy, being a lights out shooter doesn't enable you to put up star numbers if shooting is all you can do, his ball handling is horrid, he can't penetrate, he has no inside game...your post is just ridiculous.

I agree with you. Kapono doesnt have the tools to be a 20ppg scorer night in and night out. He has scored 20+ point in a game before so he is capable of putting up those numbers. The only problem is no team would give him the opportunity every night to try to put up those numbers. But if they did, give him the opportunity and backed his chucking 100%, 18ppg isnt out the question for a shooter like Kapono, or any shooter for that matter, this is the NBA. The question just becomes how much defense you want to give up for offense.

[Test of Wills]

Bargnani is the worst possible fit for this team.

-He is not a true 'C', his natural position is PF and like T. Baker said he needs a defensive bruiser playing along side him

-Calderon cannot stay in front of his man, he's constantly being beat. Bargnani is a horrible help defender and he doesn't have that intimidation factor to alter shots consistently and is often too late to help.

-Not a good fit along side Bosh offensively and defensively. Not enough touches for him for us to see what he can really do.

If Bosh leaves, I have no real problem shipping Calderon away and building around Bargs. If we trade Bargs and Calderon, and Bosh leaves, this team is **** for a long, long time. I, for one, would like to take a stab at putting someone like Samuel Dalembert (overpaid, but only 2 years left on his deal, and being shopped - so we could try it out without handcuffing ourselves) beside Bargnani and letting Jack start.

Dalembert
Bargnani
Hedo
Belinelli
Jack

Jose/Amir/Reggie/Demar off the bench.

I'm really sick of the current core. I like Bargnani's contract and potential upside if the coaches would make a concerted effort to make him our primary scorer.

Building a team around Bargnani is probably the worst thing that can happen for fans and management. Andrea is not cornerstone/#1 option worthy.

If we trade both Calderon and Bargnani, we are going to receive assets back our way. Whether they're better than what we have right now is another story. If Bosh is going to bolt he could so but he has to remember that we have his bird right's and can offer him the fattest and juiciest contract. And perhaps Bosh leaving could be good for both sides. But I know BC is going to take advantage of that and do some kind of S&T or perhaps have the chance to deal him during the trade deadline. Ideally I would want all 3 gone. This core needs to be totally replenished.

If this team is still struggling around January BC has to work his magic and do deals like Bargs, Calderon and DeRozan for Martin, Thompson, Thomas and SAC 1st round pick which works on the trade checker. And have a month to field offers for Bosh something like Bosh and Evans for Noah, Hinrich and Jerome James. Boom. We have a few expirings in Wright and Jerome James. And we have a nice core.

Noah/Rasho/JJ
Thompson/Amir
Hedo/Marco
Martin/Wright
Hinrich/Jack

[McFurious1]

Building a team around Bargnani is probably the worst thing that can happen for fans and management.

And building a team around Bosh hasn't?

[djsunyc]

albatross?

jeez louise, zach randolph was traded twice in the last 12 months.

NO CONTRACT IS AN ALBATROSS.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Hedo's contract an Albatross.

The plot thickens. I like Hedo but damn that mofo is paid, and not used enough/ or properly. I would love to trade jose and bosh, for a solid defensive C and uptempo PG pick(s), then run the offense through Hedo and Bargs. (say lopez and harris)

This. If we can get Lopez for Bosh it would be a huge step forward in terms of balancing out the team and anchoring our defense. Bargs can move to the 4 where I think he can be fully utilized. Lopez already has impressive footwork and is the defensive presence in the paint that we sorely need. On top of this if we can get Harris, that significantly improves our perimeter D by having a quick PG that can stay in front of his man, reducing this over-reliance on help defense that is leading to these collapses.

[Jose_Matador]

Bosh+Calderon


for

Harris+Lopez+filler+pick

I would do this in a heart beat, but the problem is that BC wouldn't do this because Bosh and Jose together in a package's value is worth more than just Harris and Lopez, even though its a fair trade to us, in the real world there would be more pieces involved to make this work.

[TheBat]

Hedo has the worst contract by far. He looks old and tired this year. I can't even picture how bad it will get in 2-3 years. He's not Nash, he won't improve as the years go by. I'm starting to think Marion was a better fit. We had a good run with him last spring.

[FTW]

I can't imagine any scenario where the Nets give up Lopez and Harris for Bosh and Calderon. Any scenario not involving Chris Wallace as their GM, anyway.

Sorry.

[J Dilla]

For a C? Hell yeah. For a SF, it's perfect.

[Test of Wills]

Building a team around Bargnani is probably the worst thing that can happen for fans and management.

And building a team around Bosh hasn't?

In the 7 years Bosh has been on this franchise. And for the 5 he's been our franchise player, Bosh has surrounded by mediocre talent. We've had no defenders, bruisers or perennial All-Stars to play with Bosh. Name me one young quality talent that Bosh has played with that has the ability to show up on both sides of the floor.