Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year

[orbesnet]

For some reason I see him in a Lakers uni.

Good for him. He played his heart out for the Raps.

[Wo1verine]

I'd match that $22M without even thinking twice personally.

He'd be overpaid but at least we retain a very solid asset that will continue to contribute for us in a major role.

[Ackshun]

I'm conflicted.

Aside from the ability to hit the 3 and his pesky defense (depending on the opposing players size), I haven't really been a fan of FVV and his inefficiency. That said, losing a contributor that we groomed from day one hurts. But he ain't worth 20 million.

Would have been a bit easier if he made the all star team, MIP award, an ALL NBA Defense team, Olympic team or something.

All he really has on his resume is - played a great round x 1.5 last year. That's about it.

[Inklink]

That's about the max I'd want the Raps to spend on him.

[OAKLEY_2]

I'm conflicted.

Aside from the ability to hit the 3 and his pesky defense (depending on the opposing players size), I haven't really been a fan of FVV and his inefficiency. That said, losing a contributor that we groomed from day one hurts. But he ain't worth 20 million.

Would have been a bit easier if he made the all star team, MIP award, an ALL NBA Defense team, Olympic team or something.

All he really has on his resume is - played a great round x 1.5 last year. That's about it.

According to Masai Fred is a priority. They would pay him 22 in a heartbeat.

[Steelo Green]

There’s no hard cap but there is a soft one so teams when trying to save money to sign other guys will likely not try to trade for a Fred who isn’t even a top 15 PG.

Hell is he top 20?

22 mil for a not star player is too much when other players of his caliber are making something in the 15-17 mil range.

Brogdon gets 20+, Rozier is 19ish and so is Dragic, Teague. Some of the guys getting a few mil less like Rubio or Bledsoe are also closer to 30 and/or signed their max contract when the cap was lower like Reggie Jackson.

I do think 22M+ would be an overpay, but you could still move him for an asset.

Brogdon is a lot better than Fred, Rozier is overpaid but still a lot less than 22, Dragic is doing magical things.

Teague isn't tradeable/is a negative asset.

[Steelo Green]

Keep in mind Schroder was also 2 years away from unrestricted free agency when he signed his extension. All things being equal and notwithstanding China/Covid impact on the cap, you'd expect VanVleet to get more. "Negative" production relative to salary isn't a static measurement when there's no hard cap. He's young enough that I think there would still be a market for him at 20+ million, so unless there's someone better out there Toronto could actually sign instead, you might as well keep him. Same goes for Ibaka somewhat.

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There’s no hard cap but there is a soft one so teams when trying to save money to sign other guys will likely not try to trade for a Fred who isn’t even a top 15 PG.

Hell is he top 20?

22 mil for a not star player is too much when other players of his caliber are making something in the 15-17 mil range.

Can we afford to lose him tho? Its really only a hit if we can do something better with that cap space. Raps in 18' had like 80 million tied up to Derozan, Lowry and Ibaka. They were able to still make get rid of one of those contracts, and make another trade for a rotation player. Even their championship roster had like $77 million just for Lowry Ibaka and Gasol

At the number you can, and I wouldn't mind pushing a bit of a reset and getting back into the draft. We are lacking in talent big time and I don't think Fred at 20+ mil is going to be a great contract. 55 mil for Fred+Pascal is bad IMO

[UneducatedFan86]

I mean, yes, Masai said that Ibaka and Fred are priorities (in Fred's case, a big priority) but he didn't sound like someone who was going to sell the farm (or in this case, buy the farm) to keep them here. So I really believe that Masai would love to keep them but it really comes down to how much it takes and how much it would hinder any type of flexibility for 2021. I mean, the fact that he brought up 2021 in this press conference was more telling than saying Ibaka and Fred are priorities.

Also, let's contrast his statements about Lowry and Pascal last Sept:

""No question," Ujiri told reporters about Lowry's situation being different because of his longtime contributions leading up to last season's NBA championship. "He definitely deserves that. There's legacy status for him."

He added there's already been discussions with Siakam's agent: "Whether it's going to be this fall or this summer, he's definitely someone we're going to keep here (long-term).""

I know the situations are different (winning a championship vs losing in the 2nd round) but Masai has never been one to shy away from being vocal and speaking his mind. This press conference reminds me of the 2015 presser, where we let Lou Williams walk due to not wanting to overpay and keeping 2016 flexibility.

Two quotes from that presser:

"Studying the money in 2016, our flexibility. It’s a good time for us, that’s the best way to put it. Putting ourselves in good position."
— Ryan Wolstat (@WolstatSun) April 28, 2015

"It's very important that our franchise and our team becomes relevant. We feel like we're getting there, that we can attract some players."
— Eric Koreen (@ekoreen) April 28, 2015

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

At 22 it's a quick match, maybe they don't and we get a deal.

It's the Knicks either way, it's not much of a landing spot.

[brownbobcat]

Brogdon is a lot better than Fred, Rozier is overpaid but still a lot less than 22, Dragic is doing magical things.

Teague isn't tradeable/is a negative asset.

A lot better? I don't see that at all. And again, remember that Brogdon was a RFA - he would've gotten more on the open market. Point isn't whether Teague is worth it now, it's that he got his money based on the player he was at the time (and always was) - non All-Star, slightly better than average starting PG, maybe the 3rd guy on a good team. That's what Fred is and he's also only 26 - he'll get paid.

$3 mil/yr isn't the difference between a plus-value contract and an albatross.

I get the dilemma when you're looking at the overall commitment to guys who aren't stars - I don't think you can win long term spending half your dough on Pascal and Fred. However, that's a slightly different argument than whether you should sign them. I think many teams in the right situation would give us assets for a 15/7 high-IQ PG making $22 mil.

Siakam at $33 mil, on the other hand ... let's just hope he bounces back in the RS next year. I hated that deal at the time, thought it was totally unnecessary and that he should've been paid $80M/4 as a RFA. There was zero benefit to giving him the max early, other than making him feel good. If they had only overpaid $3M, it wouldn't have been the worst thing.

[PoundTown]

I’m completely fine with paying Fred 22 mil. He gets better every year. He has already surpassed the ceiling i put on him in year 2.

[OAKLEY_2]

I’m completely fine with paying Fred 22 mil. He gets better every year. He has already surpassed the ceiling i put on him in year 2.

I agree. Tyler Johnson is a sober reminder of the potential of this situation to be a retained asset on an overpay just to keep some value of the asset. Pat Riley made that move and he is no slouch. In Riley's case a calculated risk that kind of bombed.

[OAKLEY_2]

In other words risks cannot be feared especially when Freddy can step up in big momments.

[Par36]

Thanks for the memories Fred.

[Airball Salmons]

Serge and FVV are gonna return and get paid on short deals

[Chandan]

I'm conflicted.

Aside from the ability to hit the 3 and his pesky defense (depending on the opposing players size), I haven't really been a fan of FVV and his inefficiency. That said, losing a contributor that we groomed from day one hurts. But he ain't worth 20 million.

Would have been a bit easier if he made the all star team, MIP award, an ALL NBA Defense team, Olympic team or something.

All he really has on his resume is - played a great round x 1.5 last year. That's about it.

Yeah it's not like he can work on his short coming, which is his size. he will just continue to mask the problem better.

[mdenny]

Fred is gonna get 25 milly per year and we will pay for it. He is the most under-rated player on our team but other players and coaches know the deal. He's gonna be a winner his whole career. He makes winning plays.

[mtcan]

I think people are hung up on numbers as a reason. He averaged 17.6 ppg and 6.6 apg sharing the ball handling duties.

If perhaps Kyle moves on or takes on a lesser role and Fred's usage and responsibilities increase...it is not a reach that he can average 20+ ppg and 8 apg while still being a pest on defence and a steady presence. Those are prime Mike Conley type numbers and look at how much he is making.

I get it...Fred isn't a highly touted prospect with the pedigree of a lottery pick but to average almost 18 ppg and almost 7 apg in his first season as a full time starter. I don't think he has peaked yet.

[Syd-TK3]

I think people are hung up on numbers as a reason. He averaged 17.6 ppg and 6.6 apg sharing the ball handling duties.

If perhaps Kyle moves on or takes on a lesser role and Fred's usage and responsibilities increase...it is not a reach that he can average 20+ ppg and 8 apg while still being a pest on defence and a steady presence. Those are prime Mike Conley type numbers and look at how much he is making.

I get it...Fred isn't a highly touted prospect with the pedigree of a lottery pick but to average almost 18 ppg and almost 7 apg in his first season as a full time starter. I don't think he has peaked yet.

That's good and all but more points and usage usually means less efficiency and fred is already kinda low on that outside if his 3 point shooting.

[scopy]

if FVV signed with the Knicks, and he has a subpar year and the Knicks had another abysmal year, would Raptors fans who are on the pro-FVV side be happy he didn't resign?

I'm just curious, is FVV the product of our system (in terms of possibly inflated stats and extremely overplayed in Nurse's offense)

I've been thinking about this in general. Outside of a handful of guys who will be super successful where ever they go, the majority of the league require the right system that focuses on their strengths in order to thrive.

So many players bounce around and usually end up staying longer in a place where the style of play matches their skill set.
I mean look at Pascal and Serge and Fred under Casey? You would have a case to trade all of these guys under him.
Under Nurse, they were key pieces to winning a chip.

So to answer your question, yes Fred is definitely a product of the Raptors system. But, I think 90% of the players in the league are "system players" as well.

I think if he becomes a starter on the knicks, he will have decent numbers because well, theyre the Knicks. But in terms overall effectiveness I think he will be more exposed on the Knicks. (Doesnt really create his own shot, pretty easy to shoot over him, his drives will be less effective because he will be surrounded by less talented shooters to spread the floor, the help defence wont even be close to the Raptors, so when he gets burned its going to be way more noticeable.)

I hope he gets paid a ridiculous amount of money though and I hope he does better than I think he will. He's a great dude that wasnt drafted and was almost our finals MVP last year. Good luck to him whatever happens.