RealGM

10giz wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:

PrinceAli wrote:Pretty sure Cleveland sees Mobley as untouchable. Much like we see Scottie as untouchable right now

The only guy that could potentially be attainable from Cleveland is Allen but with how he’s been playing, idk if even that’s possible

If we’re targeting a legit Center, Turner is probably the most realistic in terms of being a difference maker, fitting with our timeline and structure, and if the Pacers continue to suck they’ll probably be willing to move him

Yeah, Turner only has this year and next year's left, so his price should really be going down, and we do have a same contract in Dragic and also Boucher or Achiuwa as tradeables we would need less with Turner around, so maybe this is possible.

Khem Birch literally put up better numbers starting for us last year than Turner did.

WE DON'T NEED SHOT BLOCKING CENTERS.

WE ARE LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN BLOCKS.

YET, WE ALLOW THE 2ND LEAST POINTS IN THE PAINT.

WE ALSO ALLOW THE 2ND FEWEST FGA AT THE RIM.

WE DO NOT NEED A CENTER. WE'RE ALREADY AN ELITE DEFENSIVE TEAM EVEN INSIDE.

I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

Indeed wrote:

10giz wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:
Yeah, Turner only has this year and next year's left, so his price should really be going down, and we do have a same contract in Dragic and also Boucher or Achiuwa as tradeables we would need less with Turner around, so maybe this is possible.

Khem Birch literally put up better numbers starting for us last year than Turner did.

WE DON'T NEED SHOT BLOCKING CENTERS.

WE ARE LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN BLOCKS.

YET, WE ALLOW THE 2ND LEAST POINTS IN THE PAINT.

WE ALSO ALLOW THE 2ND FEWEST FGA AT THE RIM.

WE DO NOT NEED A CENTER. WE'RE ALREADY AN ELITE DEFENSIVE TEAM EVEN INSIDE.

I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

Great points. Sorry for the caps I wasn't trying to yell.

I think the goal of the offence is to minimize opponents FGA as much as possible which our current chaos unit is doing very well and should do even better with the return of Siakam and Barnes.

My question is, what difference are we really looking at as we're already allowing the 4th fewest PPG.

ruckus wrote:With the noose tightening around New Orleans in regards to Zion, how likely do you think they panic and try and move Ingram for help?

I personally don't think the noose is tightening around them at all.

They have a very solid core of young talent and although Zion could want out, he has zero leverage in the situation. Should NOLA agree to move him however, they could get quite a haul in return without having to give up Ingram.

All of that being said - should they decide to move Ingram, we don't have anyone better to offer so I can't see them sending him here.

Rapsfan07 wrote:

ruckus wrote:With the noose tightening around New Orleans in regards to Zion, how likely do you think they panic and try and move Ingram for help?

I personally don't think the noose is tightening around them at all.

They have a very solid core of young talent and although Zion could want out, he has zero leverage in the situation. Should NOLA agree to move him however, they could get quite a haul in return without having to give up Ingram.

All of that being said - should they decide to move Ingram, we don't have anyone better to offer so I can't see them sending him here.

I just dont see them in a good spot. BI is great, but Zions injury issues are a huge red flag. There other young talent is NAW who is solid, and Trey Murphy who we will have to see what happens. I dont see how this is ever a respectable defense with Zion, Graham and Valanciunas getting big minutes.

This is Zions 3rd season and they may be worse then last year

Indeed wrote:

10giz wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:
Yeah, Turner only has this year and next year's left, so his price should really be going down, and we do have a same contract in Dragic and also Boucher or Achiuwa as tradeables we would need less with Turner around, so maybe this is possible.

Khem Birch literally put up better numbers starting for us last year than Turner did.

WE DON'T NEED SHOT BLOCKING CENTERS.

WE ARE LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN BLOCKS.

YET, WE ALLOW THE 2ND LEAST POINTS IN THE PAINT.

WE ALSO ALLOW THE 2ND FEWEST FGA AT THE RIM.

WE DO NOT NEED A CENTER. WE'RE ALREADY AN ELITE DEFENSIVE TEAM EVEN INSIDE.

I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

I think the strategy is if there is a dominant C double and make them pass and get out of their offense and scramble to create chaos, which all of the length can get deflections. Also the length helps with defensive rebounding.

Psubs wrote:

Indeed wrote:

10giz wrote:
Khem Birch literally put up better numbers starting for us last year than Turner did.

WE DON'T NEED SHOT BLOCKING CENTERS.

WE ARE LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN BLOCKS.

YET, WE ALLOW THE 2ND LEAST POINTS IN THE PAINT.

WE ALSO ALLOW THE 2ND FEWEST FGA AT THE RIM.

WE DO NOT NEED A CENTER. WE'RE ALREADY AN ELITE DEFENSIVE TEAM EVEN INSIDE.

I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

I think the strategy is if there is a dominant C double and make them pass and get out of their offense and scramble to create chaos, which all of the length can get deflections. Also the length helps with defensive rebounding.

If we can defend the C without double, then the chances of deflections go higher, as you are guarding them one on one.

I mean offense either come from switch or double, which is why shooters are important even they can't create for themselves, so if we can eliminate the double, that our defense should be good.

Of course, the biggest challenge is finding a switchable and without double C, which is probably a dream for all NBA teams.

With Banton looking like a capable backup PG, Flynn is expendable.

Robert Covington is a rental (unless re-signed for the MLE). Trade Malachi Flynn (from Tacoma Washington) and Boucher (played at Oregon).

PG FVV - Banton
SG Trent - Svi
SF OG - Yuta
PF Barnes - Covington
C Birch - Precious

To me this is a Marc Gasol level trade. Sure JV like Flynn could play for many year for them but I think it's worth the trade.

Psubs wrote:

Indeed wrote:

10giz wrote:
Khem Birch literally put up better numbers starting for us last year than Turner did.

WE DON'T NEED SHOT BLOCKING CENTERS.

WE ARE LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN BLOCKS.

YET, WE ALLOW THE 2ND LEAST POINTS IN THE PAINT.

WE ALSO ALLOW THE 2ND FEWEST FGA AT THE RIM.

WE DO NOT NEED A CENTER. WE'RE ALREADY AN ELITE DEFENSIVE TEAM EVEN INSIDE.

I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

I think the strategy is if there is a dominant C double and make them pass and get out of their offense and scramble to create chaos, which all of the length can get deflections. Also the length helps with defensive rebounding.

Most of the time the C doesn’t even get to try a pass. Once they get the ball, Fred, Gary or OG are all over them and just strip him of the ball or force a jump ball. We just need whoever is guarding the C to hold the position far enough away from the basket long enough to give our perimeter players enough time to get to him. A rotation of OG, Scottie and Pascal can handle 90% of Cs in the league in this regard. If they struggle, we can bring in Birch or Precious.

In the chaos, the C who is often not a good passer often throws it away out of bounds or right to a defender.

When it doesn’t work, the other team gets an easy looking bucket. We need to learn to live with those because in the long run, the benefits of transition generated by the turnovers far outweigh the handful of easy rim buckets they get.

Gold Dragon wrote:

Psubs wrote:

Indeed wrote:
I am not sure those points lead to not have a shot blocking C
- We allow the 2nd least points in the paint
In turns, we are the highest in the league in allowing corner 3.
29.7% is the highest opponent corner 3 attempts in the league.
81% of 3s are assisted, which is bottom 10.

- We also allow the 2nd fewest FGA at the rim
Actually, we are 8th fewest with 22.8% FGA at the rim
We also allow the 1st fewest FGA regardless of distance, so the raw number doesn't really matter
However, opponent is shooting 69% at rim, which is bottom 10

What I think is, we have a defensive strategy in place to be top 10 defense, but the opponent shooting 69% at rim being top 10 means we can still make use of a shot blocking C.
It depends on matchup, where I can see a backup traditional C with drop coverage can help pushing our guards to be even more aggressive in trying to get steals.

I think the strategy is if there is a dominant C double and make them pass and get out of their offense and scramble to create chaos, which all of the length can get deflections. Also the length helps with defensive rebounding.

Most of the time the C doesn’t even get to try a pass. Once they get the ball, Fred, Gary or OG are all over them and just strip him of the ball or force a jump ball. We just need whoever is guarding the C to hold the position far enough away from the basket long enough to give our perimeter players enough time to get to him. A rotation of OG, Scottie and Pascal can handle 90% of Cs in the league in this regard. If they struggle, we can bring in Birch or Precious.

In the chaos, the C who is often not a good passer often throws it away out of bounds or right to a defender.

When it doesn’t work, the other team gets an easy looking bucket. We need to learn to live with those because in the long run, the benefits of transition generated by the turnovers far outweigh the handful of easy rim buckets they get.

The 2nd half against NY, they barely even shot the ball. That was our MO. Imagine adding Barnes and Siakam now.

What can we get for Boucher?

PrinceAli wrote:What can we get for Boucher?

Im happy with a Terrance Davis/Matt Thomas return for him in a mid second rounder. We should have sold high on him at the deadline like Powell

Saul Goodman wrote:

PrinceAli wrote:What can we get for Boucher?

Im happy with a Terrance Davis/Matt Thomas return for him in a mid second rounder. We should have sold high on him at the deadline like Powell

Sadly Boucher's game is far from last year level. Let's give him a month or so to see if he can get it going... otherwise Yuta will be taking his minutes when he returns....

PrinceAli wrote:What can we get for Boucher?

maybe we can package him with Dragic as neutral salary for the right player (we'd have to add necessary picks/prospects depending on how good the returning player is). On his own, he isn't going to get us much outside of salary dumps.

Kingsway_fan wrote:

Saul Goodman wrote:

PrinceAli wrote:What can we get for Boucher?

Im happy with a Terrance Davis/Matt Thomas return for him in a mid second rounder. We should have sold high on him at the deadline like Powell

Sadly Boucher's game is far from last year level. Let's give him a month or so to see if he can get it going... otherwise Yuta will be taking his minutes when he returns....

Siakam will take both their minutes, lol. We should have sold high on Boucher. Now his value plummeted.

Mo. Bamba. Please.
This year, in the summer, whatever, I've just got a feeling that dude in our system could be special.

Gotta move Dragic and Boucher somehow.

Honestly I’m not that impressed with how Boucher is playing but I’d still give him a 3 year at 4 mill per deal to keep him around.

Watched Michigan's exhibition game and Moussa Diabate looked like he could be our 1st rounder next year. Great motor, enough size to develop into a center but quick and engaged enough to fit what we're doing defensively. As of now, he and Daimion Collins on Duke (who's rail thin so probably a 4) are the only "centers" I'd expect to go between 10 and 25 in the draft which is where we'll pick.

Dickinson has a great touch (has a right hook now which he didn't before) and will be the starting 5 for Michigan, and there's definitely some Jonas V to his game, but we don't have a 2nd rounder and he doesn't fit the direction we seem to be going at all. But if he or Cockburn go undrafted maybe we'll bring one in to be the 3rd center we went without this year as an undrafted free agent, though it's impossible to see either covering the ground Birch does and we hope Achiuwa will once/if he gets more active out there defensively.

I still like Paul Reed or even Bol Bol would be a fun project to replace Boucher.

HumbleRen wrote:Gotta move Dragic and Boucher somehow.

Woud Dallas trade Porzingis for Dragic, Boucher and top 4 protected 2021 1st pick?

PG FVV - Banton/Flynn
SG Trent - Svi - OG
SF OG - Barnes - Yuta
PF Siakam - Achiuwa- Barnes
C Porzingis - Birch - Achiuwa