PG: Leagues most selfish team loses again

[spykelee]

We need to get guys back and see what's up. I think the team at full health is respectable and decent to watch. THIS team, as is, is god awful to watch.

[DelAbbot]

You are all crazy if you think Masai & Bobby is trading FVV or Siakam this season.

How long a leash did Masai give Dwane Casey? He is going to be evaluation mode for a long time about FVV and PS fit next to Scottie Barnes and OG.

[mdenny]

I've said this long time ago. FVV and Pascal are the problem of the team. You're not going anywhere you're selfish, the only brightspot of the team this season is Scottie Barnes and OG.

I'm hoping we ship them both for a package during the season.

That’s ironic as OG is the most selfish player out of that group.

Let’s get away from the rhetoric this team isn’t going nowhere as the roster is constructed. Blaming the best players on a bad team is what nba media does not y’all who actually watch the games.

Pascal had like 5 or 6 assists tonight? Og averages about 1 per game for his career lol. It's a strange point.

I don't think that means OG is 'selfish". I dislike all these claims about guys' characters and pseudo-psychological projections. Some guys are better at passing than others. It's not because of personality traits.

[johanliebert]

yes you have to blame on everyone else, not FVV. obviously.

thats how a FVV-stan would argue about it, right?

/greenfont

No lol. But to continuously see the blame put on FVV is **** nauseating when he has clearly been our best player all season long. It doesn't matter if he has a bad, decent or great game. Every game/post-game thread is riddled with people making up BS about the play of FVV and Siakam.

Tonight FVV wasn't great at all, but he was solid in the first half when we literally couldn't get anything going (13 points on 5/10 shooting while the rest of the team scored a whopping 26 points on 10/33 shooting). In the entire 2nd half, FVV took 3 shots and had 1 turnover. He kept the game somewhat close in the 1st half then did exactly what people on this forum want in the 2nd half -- he deferred to Scottie a lot. Scottie had the ball in his hands in the 2nd half just as FVV and they both finished with 3 AST and 4 TOV, but one is the second coming of MJ and the other is apparently the worst PG in the league because of a few poor playmaking games where his teammates were pretty terrible at scoring the ball.

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It's just different expectations. FVV is trying to fill in Lowry's shoes, and he's obviously coming up short. People are just frustrated that he isn't the point guard we wanted him to be. It's not FVV's fault. He's just miscast at the moment. Doesn't change the fact that the half court offense is truly horrendous to watch under his command.

When this team struggled last season this board was quick to call Kyle washed and questioned why masai didn’t move him the moment kawhi left.

Fast forward a year later and Kyle is the holy grail? Fred’s just the best player and the fan base is more emotional than a soap operas target audience. If Kyle was here he’d catch all of the heat it’s how things go around here.

[Anticon]

This is a developmental year and they were missing 3 starters. If you re-adjust your expectations, you're able to see the big picture a little more clearly - Barnes is playing like he has superstar potential and that's a lot more important than any wins they get this season.

I mean, we absolutely nailed the draft. That's the most important thing. Who cares if we lose to Memphis on a Tuesday in December.

[HiJiNX]

I was at the game and let me tell you, FVV started off by letting other guys try to get their’s but after everyone started missing he decided he was gonna try to take over and he kept us in it for the first half. And everyone on this team but Yuta and Barnes are guilty of lack of ball movement.

[mdenny]

No lol. But to continuously see the blame put on FVV is **** nauseating when he has clearly been our best player all season long. It doesn't matter if he has a bad, decent or great game. Every game/post-game thread is riddled with people making up BS about the play of FVV and Siakam.

Tonight FVV wasn't great at all, but he was solid in the first half when we literally couldn't get anything going (13 points on 5/10 shooting while the rest of the team scored a whopping 26 points on 10/33 shooting). In the entire 2nd half, FVV took 3 shots and had 1 turnover. He kept the game somewhat close in the 1st half then did exactly what people on this forum want in the 2nd half -- he deferred to Scottie a lot. Scottie had the ball in his hands in the 2nd half just as FVV and they both finished with 3 AST and 4 TOV, but one is the second coming of MJ and the other is apparently the worst PG in the league because of a few poor playmaking games where his teammates were pretty terrible at scoring the ball.

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It's just different expectations. FVV is trying to fill in Lowry's shoes, and he's obviously coming up short. People are just frustrated that he isn't the point guard we wanted him to be. It's not FVV's fault. He's just miscast at the moment. Doesn't change the fact that the half court offense is truly horrendous to watch under his command.

When this team struggled last season this board was quick to call Kyle washed and questioned why masai didn’t move him the moment kawhi left.

Fast forward a year later and Kyle is the holy grail? Fred’s just the best player and the fan base is more emotional than a soap operas target audience. If Kyle was here he’d catch all of the heat it’s how things go around here.

Kyle can't score anymore. He wouldn't look good on this team either.

[Knucknbuc]

Again and I repeat who tf do you want them to pass to? This team has 3 nba players on it right now fvv siakam and Barnes that’s it. Everyone else just isn’t that good. Wtf do y’all expect??


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[SB4]

Raptors broadcasts constantly & conveniently bring up the injury excuse for the losses. It’s a factors but it’s nauseating to constantly hear. Grizz were without Ja too.

I mean that's true, but it's not equivalent. We are missing two starters, two of our best scorers, I would argue OG is our best player, and our best big who could be starting over precious. They are missing their best player.

It is what it is.

No doubt our guys have value and they are big pieces of what we do. Ja may only be one player (and their defensive efficiency is worse with him), but he’s undoubtedly their #1 option. It’s a trend with Raptors broadcasts I find. When they are down, they put up stats showing how we are the youngest team in the league (games played). It’s like they have in a card in their back pocket and they use it once a game when the team falls behind. The analysis of the game (post game) always resorts to the injury excuse.

The game on November 24th, we had Trent but we’re without OG and Birch. They had Morant and we beat them on their home court. Now suddenly we are using the injury excuse with home court after beating that team a week ago?

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360096

[Scott Hall]

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[Tripod]

what does that say about them as nba players?

seems like every other game I hear "we just missed some open shots"

yes you have to blame on everyone else, not FVV. obviously.

thats how a FVV-stan would argue about it, right?

/greenfont

No lol. But to continuously see the blame put on FVV is **** nauseating when he has clearly been our best player all season long. It doesn't matter if he has a bad, decent or great game. Every game/post-game thread is riddled with people making up BS about the play of FVV and Siakam.

Tonight FVV wasn't great at all, but he was solid in the first half when we literally couldn't get anything going (13 points on 5/10 shooting while the rest of the team scored a whopping 26 points on 10/33 shooting). In the entire 2nd half, FVV took 3 shots and had 1 turnover. He kept the game somewhat close in the 1st half then did exactly what people on this forum want in the 2nd half -- he deferred to Scottie a lot. Scottie had the ball in his hands in the 2nd half just as FVV (if not more) and they both finished with 3 AST and 4 TOV, but one is the second coming of MJ and the other is apparently the worst PG in the league because of a few poor playmaking games where his teammates were pretty terrible at scoring the ball.

Fred's teammates would have higher S% if he passed it to open players instead of looking them off

[v1n5anity]

Barnes would be averaging 20 if Kyle was our PG. FVV taking way too many shots. Driving to the basket with 2-3 defenders on him instead of passing to the open guy.

Achiuwa sucks, wish we get rid of him sooner than later. Dude has a low BBIQ and just doesn't fit the team. I hate how he's given a good pass and instead of quickly dunking it decides to take a dribble or pump fake giving the defenders time to block his shot.

I know we're trading Dragic but I hope he's our PG now with FVV the one attending to "personal matters".

[Scott Hall]

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[PT416]

Trade Fred and Siakam for Chuck.
Matt and Chuck calling games with a lineup of Barnes/Trent/OG/Yuta/Birch



Season solved.

[Chandan]

Fred trying so hard to become Lowry lite is actually hurting this team a lot. Selfishness is not the right word to describe him, I think its self-centered. And it's one of the reasons why he's irking so many people now. Win or lose you can see that he makes it about himself.

[johanliebert]

Our defense is trending in the right direction, but it was still pretty bad in the first half. They just missed a lot of good looks. On offense we really miss Trent and OG's scoring these past few games.

To take the next step we need an upgrade at the 1 and 5. Or, we need to figure out who our best option at the 1 is. It might be Fred for now and he might continue to improve. Barnes isn't ready, Banton's not ready and Flynn can't shoot reliably enough.

That being said, I'm glad Flynn is getting more of an opportunity. Call me crazy, but I think he's a guy who's lost his way a bit and needs more of a green light, or just to know he can play through his mistakes. He needs to calibrate his shots and sometime he misfires which leads to an ugly miss, but if he can find his range within the game like Fred does at times he'll make them at a respectable clip.

I think we win these last two with Trent or OG playing. We've really been laboring on offense.

The only legit building blocks on this roster are Fred and Barnes. You can’t think 1/5 need an upgrade as if the rest of the roster is set.

There’s a weak front court, no athleticism in the backcourt and no bench to speak of. GTJ should really be the 6th man on this roster and hopefully a young guard can be found in the draft.

Guys like Flynn, banton and yuta have no business in the NBA but the scope is on the only legitimate starters on this team.

[Agimat]

Our defense is trending in the right direction, but it was still pretty bad in the first half. They just missed a lot of good looks. On offense we really miss Trent and OG's scoring these past few games.

To take the next step we need an upgrade at the 1 and 5. Or, we need to figure out who our best option at the 1 is. It might be Fred for now and he might continue to improve. Barnes isn't ready, Banton's not ready and Flynn can't shoot reliably enough.

That being said, I'm glad Flynn is getting more of an opportunity. Call me crazy, but I think he's a guy who's lost his way a bit and needs more of a green light, or just to know he can play through his mistakes. He needs to calibrate his shots and sometime he misfires which leads to an ugly miss, but if he can find his range within the game like Fred does at times he'll make them at a respectable clip.

I think we win these last two with Trent or OG playing. We've really been laboring on offense.

You're not crazy! Flynn definitely needs the assurance that he can play through mistakes. This is what couple of games now where he played a decent minutes? He played well defensively, offense can be better but dude needs some reps.
I'm confident he can run the team better than Vanvleet but not with him on the same floor!

[johanliebert]

Barnes would be averaging 20 if Kyle was our PG. FVV taking way too many shots. Driving to the basket with 2-3 defenders on him instead of passing to the open guy.

Achiuwa sucks, wish we get rid of him sooner than later. Dude has a low BBIQ and just doesn't fit the team. I hate how he's given a good pass and instead of quickly dunking it decides to take a dribble or pump fake giving the defenders time to block his shot.

I know we're trading Dragic but I hope he's our PG now with FVV the one attending to "personal matters".

Barnes is too raw offensively to average 20. Unless he he starts shooting 17-18 times per game.

Let’s be honest y’all used to say Kyle held JV back but now he’s an elite playmaker?

[Scott Hall]

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[Agimat]

Fred trying so hard to become Lowry lite is actually hurting this team a lot.

So much this, there's no flow in our offense with him on the floor!