[Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade

[johanliebert]

Music to my ears most of this board isnt ready to accept the fact he and barnes can't co-exist. They can be effective if pascal is the primary ball handler but theres a change of guard coming.

[KL78192020]

Wouldn’t you say that since he has played the point, he has looked his best?

I don’t see him relinquishing that role.

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

I think to whole debate about who should play the point is missing the mark.

The team wants to have several offensive initiators. 5 if they could. Guys that can create advantages then move the ball to the right spots. The more you have the better.

That also means the players receiving those initial pass outs have the ability to move the ball if required.

The fan debate about which of Scottie or pascal or Fred should run the point is only being had here. I suspect the FO and coaching staff see it differently. Balanced attack with the initiator changing depending on match ups. Game to game and possession to possession.


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Ya you could see it in the playoffs. Whoever gets the rebound runs with it, no need to get it to a specific player per se. Although I feel like with FVV out there Siakam and Barnes feel more obligated to get it to him. Without in they were all running it up when they got a chance.

[Steelo Green]

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

There will never be a Kawhi type deal.

[macNcheese3]

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

There will never be a Kawhi type deal.

It was a rare occurrence, and there were literally no reports on it.

[SHFT]

Has to be a killer deal. If Goldenstate gives us all their young guns i'd do it like Kuminga, Wiseman Moody and poole

Id prolly do a Kuminga/Poole for Siakam deal right now if it was offered ...It just makes sense for both teams timelines much more...Siakam would keep Curry/Klay/Draymond hunting titles on their last legs while we get Kuminga to pair with Barnes and Poole who is a 22 year old sharpshooter/Scorer but tbh i doubt Warriors would do the deal sadly as they prolly want to make Poole their next Curry and Kuminga to be their prospect for the future to pair with him.

Lol oh my goodness thank sweet baby Jesus that Masai is who he is.

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[Badonkadonk]

Music to my ears most of this board isnt ready to accept the fact he and barnes can't co-exist. They can be effective if pascal is the primary ball handler but theres a change of guard coming.

"Pascal and Barnes" can't co-exist has been debunked so many times on this board that I'm not even going to bother reposting the articles and analysis. Go look up Samson Folk's work if you really want to understand why that's false.

Just as importantly, Barnes was specifically praising Pascal by the end of the season, and he was clearly having the biggest positive influence on the rook.

[Steelo Green]

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

There will never be a Kawhi type deal.

It was a rare occurrence, and there were literally no reports on it.

There were. A week or two before we were the favs. Haynes, Windy and Vegas had us being the loudest rumblings.

[macNcheese3]

There will never be a Kawhi type deal.

It was a rare occurrence, and there were literally no reports on it.

There were. A week or two before we were the favs. Haynes, Windy and Vegas had us being the loudest rumblings.

I just can't remember that far back.

[Pointgod]

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

That’s not really 4 quarters though. The Kawhi move was a once in a life time move, it took an unusual set of circumstances to make that happen and the fact that we won a championship makes it worth it because Kawhi ended up walking. We’ve seen what the price for a superstar is. Multiple draft picks, win now pieces and assets. Anthony Davis, Paul George, both Harden trades, we see what the asking price is and I’m not 100% sold that it’s always worth it, even if we keep Siakim in the deal.

I’m not opposed to trading Fred or GTJ either for the right trade. Also we don’t have to trade any of them and we can see how the team develops before Scottie is up for his extension. I think we’re in an enviable position where we can be competitive with a lot of room to grow.

[douggood]

It was a rare occurrence, and there were literally no reports on it.

There were. A week or two before we were the favs. Haynes, Windy and Vegas had us being the loudest rumblings.

I just can't remember that far back.

vegas has us favorites and i couldnt believe it, we were in conversations according to media but were never favorites there, raptors were considered to be doing due diligence etc.

[Clutch0z24]

Has to be a killer deal. If Goldenstate gives us all their young guns i'd do it like Kuminga, Wiseman Moody and poole

Id prolly do a Kuminga/Poole for Siakam deal right now if it was offered ...It just makes sense for both teams timelines much more...Siakam would keep Curry/Klay/Draymond hunting titles on their last legs while we get Kuminga to pair with Barnes and Poole who is a 22 year old sharpshooter/Scorer but tbh i doubt Warriors would do the deal sadly as they prolly want to make Poole their next Curry and Kuminga to be their prospect for the future to pair with him.

Lol oh my goodness thank sweet baby Jesus that Masai is who he is.

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I love Siakam don't get me wrong and i think Siakam is one heck of a player but...We have Barnes now....Barnes needs to be given the Keys soon and we have to start building around him with the right players....I think Barnes/Siakam can play together if we make some changes in the lineup but it has to be either OG/Siakam that has to go....Cause OG/Siakam/Barnes all play basically the same Position/Style and all 3 will want a starting role on the team....

Siakam/Barnes OG/Barnes would work but all 3 together just doesn't considering all 3 are not sharpshooters from 3 and none of them really have elite shot making ability it hurts our ability to make plays on the offensive end...

Now for me between OG/Siakam i am more willing to give up Siakam in that scenario since he would bring back more our way and i feel OG is still only 24 years old has another step in his game...

Poole/Kuminga would be great additions to the team to fit our timeline with Barnes ....Poole 22, Kuminga 19, Barnes 20, GTJR 23, OG 24....I think it just makes more sense long term...Also Poole is developing into something special and is showing he can play in big situations in the playoffs....

But anyways i doubt Warriors would do the deal anyways

[Pointgod]

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

When they traded Ellis, Curry was shut down while they tanked. iirc Bogut was also out for the year at that point. Might have been to just change the tone from soft offense to defense and give rookie Klay some more touches. That was when Mark Jackson took over and was trying to turn them into a defensive oriented team.

Doesn't seem like Masai's MO at all, if you look at his history of building winners. Every name he's traded was for an upgrade in talent, from Ross to JV to DeMar. I guess we would be surprised if he traded Pascal for a downgrade, because he's never done something like that.

We see those type of moves all of time. A team will move a veteran player to get the ball in the hands of a high potential young player. I’m not saying that we absolutely have to or we should, just that it’s a possibility.

I’d say that the JV trade is a good example of downgrade from a talent and youth stand point for fit and defence. JV just had a monster year with the Pelicans and Gasol is retired. I still loved that trade at the time because even though Gasol’s shelf life was limited he just added a needed dimension that JV didn’t provide.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We see those type of moves all of time. A team will move a veteran player to get the ball in the hands of a high potential young player. I’m not saying that we absolutely have to or we should, just that it’s a possibility.

I’d say that the JV trade is a good example of downgrade from a talent and youth stand point for fit and defence. JV just had a monster year with the Pelicans and Gasol is retired. I still loved that trade at the time because even though Gasol’s shelf life was limited he just added a needed dimension that JV didn’t provide.

I wasn't disputing that teams will move off a guy to make room for an up-and-comer, just that Masai has never done it. You could argue maybe Rudy Gay, but they were looking to blow it right up and trade the other guys in the core after that. Lowry was next and DeMar felt he would be dealt soon after. So if the Raptors really suck next year, then sure, Siakam might be on the market. I just doubt that Masai would be proactively looking to balance things out by moving on from his core.

They traded JV's future potential for Gasol's present utility, but that's different. That would be like trading OG for Marcus Morris, or something like that.

[brownbobcat]

I wasn't disputing that teams will move off a guy to make room for an up-and-comer, just that Masai has never done it. You could argue maybe Rudy Gay, but they were looking to blow it right up and trade the other guys in the core after that. Lowry was next and DeMar felt he would be dealt soon after. So if the Raptors really suck next year, then sure, Siakam might be on the market. I just doubt that Masai would be proactively looking to balance things out by moving on from his core.

They traded JV's future potential for Gasol's present utility, but that's different. That would be like trading OG for Marcus Morris, or something like that.

They traded Vasquez for Norm, traded Norm for GTJ. They let go of Lou Will and signed Cory Joseph. You could argue that they were more comfortable moving off Lowry because Fred was ready.

[wegotthabeet]

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

There will never be a Kawhi type deal.

You’re missing the point. If you want to land a potential top 5 talent you need to take a risk at some point. Kawhi was only available due to extenuating circumstances. Same thing applies to someone like Zion. You can’t tell me Barnes and Zion wouldn’t be the most exciting highest ceiling duo under 25 in the NBA.

[OakleyDokely]

All-stars are traded literally every year. It's just a matter of waiting for the right one to pop up in the trade market, making sure you've accumulated enough assets to make a deal and determining whether the assets required to acquire that star make sense.

[aroc23]

I have seen a few people now say that Siakam for Poole + Kuminga is a ridiculous trade for the Raptors. Have people not watched the Warriors?

Poole looks like he will be an all-star within the next 2 years. These playoffs he is averaging:

22 points, 6 assists and 3 rebounds in 33 minutes per game, with a 70% TS (!!)

He is not even 23 years old yet and was in the G League 2 years ago. This guy is a star in the making, such that the Warriors may not want to move him alone for Siakam.

To get Kumgina, who is still a teenager, who looks to be at worst a freak athlete combo forward who will be a nightly 18 / 8 with good defense, would be an insane get. Here are Kuminga's per 36 minute stats as a 19 year old:

20 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists on 51% FG and 34% from three

Oh by the way, Kumgina is locked into 6 million per year until 2025.

I have posted about this pipe dream of a trade a few times now so this will be my last for a while. I just need to point out how some people are really overvaluing Siakam. That said, I think Siakam for those 2 players right now makes the Warriors even better in the short term, so maybe there is hope.

[Jadoogar]

Remember when Woj was talking for weeks about Kawhi leaving Toronto for the Clippers and this whole board went after him saying he was a clown and didn't know what he was talking about/working for the Clippers management under balmers payroll lmaoo...Turns out he does know what hes talking about and is just more on the inside then anyone from this board....So i would take the words of a credible reporter whos more on the inside and prolly heard about discussions surrounding Siakam...

Don't go attacking reporters saying they know nothing when in fact they know more then any of us...Not saying Siakam will be traded but it sure is a possibility....And it could happen this offseason considering our timeline/rebuilding

This board thought it was a conspiracy against canada when Hollinger had the Raptors picking Barnes instead of Suggs. "american media doesn't want the raptors to be good?!?!?!"

I wouldn't trade Siakam for Gobert but i have no doubt Masai has listened to offers.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I wasn't disputing that teams will move off a guy to make room for an up-and-comer, just that Masai has never done it. You could argue maybe Rudy Gay, but they were looking to blow it right up and trade the other guys in the core after that. Lowry was next and DeMar felt he would be dealt soon after. So if the Raptors really suck next year, then sure, Siakam might be on the market. I just doubt that Masai would be proactively looking to balance things out by moving on from his core.

They traded JV's future potential for Gasol's present utility, but that's different. That would be like trading OG for Marcus Morris, or something like that.

They traded Vasquez for Norm, traded Norm for GTJ. They let go of Lou Will and signed Cory Joseph. You could argue that they were more comfortable moving off Lowry because Fred was ready.

Vasquez was awful that year. Williams was replaced. Norm was UFA and they wanted to get younger in a year where they had thrown in the towel. That's not the same thing. If Siakam is 34 and looking for 90 million and the Raptors are in the toilet, sure, Masai will move on from him. We're talking about imminent scenarios, where Masai would for some reason trade Siakam for a role player/pick package to hand the keys over to Barnes.

[WaltFrazier]

Masai made it quite clear the core is not being traded, especially Pascal, yet the rampant unfounded speculation of this thread rolls on