PG: Raps lose to the Nets

[sbsat]

Seriously. Do people not remember last season when we lost to KD and a bunch of role players to fall 2 games below .500 in mid-December? We've been even less healthy to this point in the season and we've been playing better than last year when we nearly won 50 games. This season is far from over.

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

This team does not look very different from last year (high variance, fvv has stunk, offensive struggles, hyper active defense). In expectation we should see a first round exit again which is disheartening. I actually think like last year we will finish with a decent record but does anyone actually think we can be successful in the playoffs? Doesnt look like any player has elevated their game modulo pascal and in my opinion thats a good reason to be frustrated as a fan. Hoping for a needle moving trade at the deadline.

[mdenny]

And vice versa? Those who continually find something negative to say about Barnes every game but conveniently say nothing about FVV who has been brutal for the majority of the season?

This take can also use some balancing to be honest.

Should we do the numbers?

Before we count them i bet the dengrating fred posts outnumber the denigrating scotty posts by a factor of 10 to 1. What do you think the ratio is? Want to make a gentlemen's bet?

Why are you attempting to draw a clearly false equivalence?

And let's be clear about what constitutes a "denigrating post": calling someone a name, being overly negative without nuance, being dismissive, calling into question their character, using childish puns of their govt name, etc.

I bet it's more like 20 to 1.

Yup, kind of like making up faking injuries. Talking about their character by saying they're immature using that strawman to make that distinction. Again, all this is completely different from what any player on the team has said and strangely about the one player on the team that teammates have actually had glowing things to say about. Very bizzare.

I never said anything about the number of posters on both sides being equal. Barnes is 21, and FVV is 28 and a veteran so I would expect FVV to get way more criticism, as we already know what the player is by now and it's not getting better. The point is there are posters on both sides, and it's kind of ironic that you're the one commenting here about this because quoting you alone is enough to make my point.

Lol at this "both sides" false equivalence. If it's a 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 ratio it's clearly not a "both sides" issue as you asserted.

If you are conceding that it's a 10 to 1 ratio or greater....then reread your post and correct what you said.

Whatever i said that annoyed u about scotty. Imagine a group of 10 to 15 ppl making 50 posts about it EVERY day....and then referring to you as a "boy" or a "stan" if you disagree.

And note...I have not referred to you as such and I have not spammed this board with 100s of posts per day trashing a player ever. My assertion abput scotty was not overly negative. I gave him props for playing with heart and guts when we were down big.

You are making a false equivalence. Straight up and down.

Noone is a hater or a troll because they say something negative abput a player. They are haters and trolls by function of frequency and compulsive spamming. If you make denigrating posts about a player more than 20 or 30 or 50 times per day...you are an internet troll and you're here to derail the board and play the whole tired "u mad bro" game that little boys enjoy.

[Potential]

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road

What a great post

[Los_29]

And vice versa? Those who continually find something negative to say about Barnes every game but conveniently say nothing about FVV who has been brutal for the majority of the season?

This take can also use some balancing to be honest.

Should we do the numbers?

Before we count them i bet the dengrating fred posts outnumber the denigrating scotty posts by a factor of 10 to 1. What do you think the ratio is? Want to make a gentlemen's bet?

Why are you attempting to draw a clearly false equivalence?

And let's be clear about what constitutes a "denigrating post": calling someone a name, being overly negative without nuance, being dismissive, calling into question their character, using childish puns of their govt name, etc.

I bet it's more like 20 to 1.

Yup, kind of like making up faking injuries. Talking about their character by saying they're immature using that strawman to make that distinction. Again, all this is completely different from what any player on the team has said and strangely about the one player on the team that teammates have actually had glowing things to say about. Very bizzare.

I never said anything about the number of posters on both sides being equal. Barnes is 21, and FVV is 28 and a veteran so I would expect FVV to get way more criticism, as we already know what the player is by now and it's not getting better. The point is there are posters on both sides, and it's kind of ironic that you're the one commenting here about this because quoting you alone is enough to make my point.

Fred is an undrafted player. Scottie is the 4th overall pick. You can't compare the two.

[Clutch0z24]

I don't think its about the losses or wins...Even when we win games i think most people here see the writing on the wall for this team or at least i do....And if your a GM like Masai im sure he sees it as well....Team is just not that good, Not well balanced, Lacks offensive firepower in a league where that is crucial, Lacks the proper bigs to matchup against certain teams, Lacks 3 point shooting, Lacks any kind of depth since we have about 6 G-League type talent at the end of our bench....Just not a very good put together team....Sure we have a few good players but every team has that and then some...

pretty much. Precious Banton flynn Koloko isn't some high quality prospects.

I've heard some say they should perhaps not be treated too differently from Scottie Barnes and are perhaps the same level of general quality.

Well than that makes low expectations for Barnes....Barnes is clearly the best prospect we have...

But tbh this team has way too many young players who are still yes at a g-league type level and need years of development to be apart of teams that can actually win anything....

That is another reason i find this team so weird and what Masai is trying to do....We have a team full of young players who are not really ready to be solid contributors to a playoff team but yet hes trying to win still with a few vets + 2 aging players in FVV/Siakam at the helm...

Our whole team OG/Siakam/FVV/Thad/Porter Jr are the only vets on this team with proper playoff experience ....Rest are still babies in the NBA or have not much experience in a playoff setting....Just a weird balance of players...

That is why i can see a total rebuild coming sooner rather than later....Once this team has a few more 1st round exits we will be at the point Siakam/FVV have to be offloaded for as many assets as we can get....And Barnes/OG become the future and we build around them 2....

Just makes the most sense...Thats a reason id rather just start the process now while Siakam/FVV can give us the most value in return...We could get potentially 7-9 First round picks in total for both players if we played it right and a few decent young prospects....Id rather that than flame out in the playoffs the next 2 years and have a broken down FVV who is untradeable and a older Siakam who won't bring back as much value as he could now....

[Mr Fitzhume]

Seriously. Do people not remember last season when we lost to KD and a bunch of role players to fall 2 games below .500 in mid-December? We've been even less healthy to this point in the season and we've been playing better than last year when we nearly won 50 games. This season is far from over.

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

Great post, but how about the opposing team’s (especially the 17 playoff-level team) injured players who missed the games against us?

Just for the context that matters.

[mdenny]

Nick nurse is a fred stan. Masai is a fred stan. Raptors organization, all fred stans. William Lou is a fred stan. Alvin williams is a fred stan. Samson folk is a frd stan. All raptors media...fred stans.

[TRik]

I know better, I know better. Look at me, I know better. I know better, I know better. Please respect me and think I’m cool.

[pingpongrac]

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

This team does not look very different from last year (high variance, fvv has stunk, offensive struggles, hyper active defense). In expectation we should see a first round exit again which is disheartening. I actually think like last year we will finish with a decent record but does anyone actually think we can be successful in the playoffs? Doesnt look like any player has elevated their game modulo pascal and in my opinion thats a good reason to be frustrated as a fan. Hoping for a needle moving trade at the deadline.

Again, we're barely a quarter of the way through the season and we haven't been healthy since the first 5 or so games while we've played a very tough schedule overall. Did many people foresee us winning nearly 50 games and Siakam looking like a top 10-15 player last season after we started 9-13? Because that's what happened. We went on to win about 2/3 of our games the rest of the way (~55-wins over a full season) even with pretty big injuries to FVV/OG because we started to get a bit more consistent good health and play less inexperienced players (Banton, Bonga, Champagnie, Flynn, etc.) while gaining chemistry on both ends as the year went on. I expect something similar will happen this season with Koloko getting less minutes in the new year while newer guys (like Porter and Juancho) become more acclimated and our top rotation players become more and more cohesive together defensively. So far, our defence has been a mixed bag, just like it was earlier in the season last year. We'll look elite one night (like against the Cavs on Monday) then completely discombobulated the next.

Also, I think it's safe to say OG has elevated his game too. He is playing at a DPOY level (or at the very least All-Defence) while putting up 19/6/2 on 57 TS% so far.

[Clutch0z24]

Lost a road game to KD and Kyrie in early December. Trade everyone, fire the coaching staff and front office.

The Sky is falling!

I don't think its about the losses or wins...Even when we win games i think most people here see the writing on the wall for this team or at least i do....And if your a GM like Masai im sure he sees it as well....Team is just not that good, Not well balanced, Lacks offensive firepower in a league where that is crucial, Lacks the proper bigs to matchup against certain teams, Lacks 3 point shooting, Lacks any kind of depth since we have about 6 G-League type talent at the end of our bench....Just not a very good put together team....Sure we have a few good players but every team has that and then some...

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ZHHighlights

I guess Zion can't rebound ....Your takes are pretty bad....15 Rebounds...Not too bad...

[pingpongrac]

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

Great post, but how about the opposing team’s (especially the 17 playoff-level team) injured players who missed the games against us?

Just for the context that matters.

G1: Cleveland missed Garland for the second half
*G2: Brooklyn was missing Harris+Curry+Warren
G3: Miami had no worthwhile absences
G4: Miami was missing a suspended Martin
G5: Philly had no worthwhile absences
*G6: Philly was missing Embiid
G7: Atlanta was missing Bogdanovic (no GP yet)
G8: San Antonio was missing Johnson+Vassell
G9: Dallas had no worthwhile absences
G10: Chicago was missing LaVine+White
G11: Chicago was missing White
G12: Houston had no worthwhile absences
G13: OKC had no worthwhile absences
G14: Indiana was missing Duarte
G15: Detroit was missing Cade
G16: Miami was missing Bam+Herro
G17: Atlanta was missing Bogdanovic again
G18: Brooklyn was missing Curry+Warren
G19: Dallas had no worthwhile absences
G20: Cleveland was missing Allen+Love
*G21: New Orleans was missing Ingram+McCollum
*G22: Brooklyn was missing Simmons

Generally we have been on the wrong end of injury absences this year. And when the opposition has had key players miss time, we have ended up losing most of those games (Sixers, Pelicans, Nets, etc.) anyway. It's not like we're just feeding off injured or weak teams. We've been a good team aside from a few letdown games (2nd Philly game and OKC) and the last 2 games.

[Mr Fitzhume]

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

Great post, but how about the opposing team’s (especially the 17 playoff-level team) injured players who missed the games against us?

Just for the context that matters.

G1: Cleveland missed Garland for the second half
*G2: Brooklyn was missing Harris+Curry+Warren
G3: Miami had no worthwhile absences
G4: Miami was missing a suspended Martin
G5: Philly had no worthwhile absences
*G6: Philly was missing Embiid
G7: Atlanta was missing Bogdanovic (no GP yet)
G8: San Antonio was missing Johnson+Vassell
G9: Dallas had no worthwhile absences
G10: Chicago was missing LaVine+White
G11: Chicago was missing White
G12: Houston had no worthwhile absences
G13: OKC had no worthwhile absences
G14: Indiana was missing Duarte
G15: Detroit was missing Cade
G16: Miami was missing Bam+Herro
G17: Atlanta was missing Bogdanovic again
G18: Brooklyn was missing Curry+Warren
G19: Dallas had no worthwhile absences
G20: Cleveland was missing Allen+Love
*G21: New Orleans was missing Ingram+McCollum
*G22: Brooklyn was missing Simmons

Generally we have been on the wrong end of injury absences this year. And when the opposition has had key players miss time, we have ended up losing most of those games (Sixers, Pelicans, Nets, etc.) anyway. It's not like we're just feeding off injured or weak teams. We've been a good team aside from a few letdown games (2nd Philly game and OKC) and the last 2 games.

Thanks! Except the 3rd game vs. Miami and the Pels one (and maybe Embiid’s absence), there are no serious opponent DNP’s, so it’s a good sign to win almost half of that 17 games against playoff-level teams.

This team screams for some consitency down the road - even from Nurse, because his rotations are too experimental at times…

[HoopAndTheHarm]

Meh...Ed Malloy reffing. I was expecting a loss but not as bad as it had gotten. Him, Tony Brothers and Natalie Sago seem to the unholy trio when Raps play.
One thing was clear, Nets had to play Durant and Irving HUGEEEE minutes to get this win. The dropoff is major when they aren't on the floor and even dependent upon who is on the floor with them.

[LastNameEver]

Glad my discernment is keeping me from watching, and instead doing more fulfilling things.

This team aint it, even if they get to round 2.
Either consolidate the redundant pieces or put together your best package and go for a difference maker.

[Sidthekid87]

We trip a little too much. We got 3 of the main 5 in pretty bad slumps ATM and it's really unfortunate, but it's all occurring at the same time. I actually like this team alot, and idc what anyone says, Siakam has legit looked like a Franchise guy this entire season. Scottie Freddie and Gary aren't going to stay useless much longer. Need one of them to get going ASAP. With the way Siakam is playing once these guys find there form, or atleast 2/3, the team will be fine. The difference between the road and home is the must worrisome issue for me ATM. Night and day so far.

[mihaic]

Difference in expectations though. Last season was a welcome surprise as expectations were low but we got ROTY Barnes, All Star FVV, and All NBA Siakam along with a 6 seed. Most optimistic fans thought play ins with many thinking a late lotto pick was more probable

Now the expectation is another top 6 Berth at minimum with the players building on their seasons from last year, but there's so much regression across the board besides Siakam and surprisingly OG.

Barnes massive struggling, FVV physically cooked, GTJ with a drop in defections/steals and in Nurses doghouse, Precious reverting to bad habits before suffering Injury.

Team as a whole is bottom 5 in jump shooting etc just a hard watch this year

Difference in expectations, yes...but context also matters.

First 22 games last season
- 9-13 (10 home / 12 away; 10 games vs lottery teams / 12 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 23 combined games missed from starters and 12 combined games missed from key bench players (Achiuwa, Birch, Boucher)
- 13th ranked ORTG and 24th ranked DRTG

First 22 games this season
- 11-11 (10 home / 12 away; 5 games vs lottery teams / 17 games vs playoff-level teams)
- 22 combined games missed from starters and 28 combined games missed from key rotation players (Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter)
- 16th ranked ORTG and 7th ranked DRTG

I get that these last two games have been embarrassing, but that shouldn't take away from how we played through the first 20 games. Overall, we're still playing fairly well considering our injury issues and tough schedule to this point. We are within .5 games (ahead or behind) of Philadelphia, Miami, Golden State, Minnesota and Dallas – all of which were expected to be closer to contending than us this season. Coincidentally, most of those teams are having similar issues as we are on the road; we are 3-9 on the road and Miami is 3-8 while Dallas (1-8) and Golden State (2-10) have been two of the worst teams in the entire league on the road.

Great post, but how about the opposing team’s (especially the 17 playoff-level team) injured players who missed the games against us?

Just for the context that matters.

You think this response was genious, eh?

Well of course the context matters. Read the post you respond to. Some of those teams mentioned also have underachieved and have a lower than expected record and results.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Putting it another way, the baseline competency of offenses has increased especially this season. The average TS% is around 57% and an average off rating is around 110-112.

Only OG and Pascal hit that average efficiency mark and the rest of the starters and guys that actually play don't even come close (GTJr, Scottie, Koloko, Fred, Dalano, Boucher) unless you think the 2 shots a game Juancho and Thad provide actually contribute anything.

We're the 16th offense but last in half court efficiency again, which just means its only a matter of time until the playoffs arrive and we get shutdown between the 2-3 zone and the other team doubling Pascal.

Yes this start mirrors last year, but winning the majority of the games late in the season when a lot of teams have committed to tanking or shut guys down doesn't impress me.

[Andreas Orphan]

Very happy I didn't watch any of that game.

The current contempt ( he seems to trigger people in a way that few have. It's weird. The constant harping on his body is very, very strange) for Fred rivals the contempt for Siakam when he was slumping a few years ago. Hope he can pull a similar recovery. We need him to shoot well to be competitive. He's been terrible.

As for the money he makes, I hope he continues to make it, and then some. I have nothing against a kid who came from terrible circumstances and worked his ass off against every conceivable odd getting rich off the back of his work ethic. It's not like he's some scumbag employer or CEO exploiting people to get wealthy. Or some rich kid born into wealth piggybacking off an inheritance or trust fund. He's still in the top 1 percent, globally, of people in his field. He gives back to his community. He invests in where he's from.

I just find it strange that in a game where nearly everyone was terrible, the entire PG thread centers arounds Fred's height, weight, the money he makes, his wife, and how he needs to be gone.

I think this team is better than last years team. I still think they hit a groove and start winning some games soon.

[Andreas Orphan]

Putting it another way, the baseline competency of offenses has increased especially this season. The average TS% is around 57% and an average off rating is around 110-112.

Only OG and Pascal hit that average efficiency mark and the rest of the starters and guys that actually play don't even come close (GTJr, Scottie, Koloko, Fred, Dalano, Boucher) unless you think the 2 shots a game Juancho and Thad provide actually contribute anything.

We're the 16th offense but last in half court efficiency again, which just means its only a matter of time until the playoffs arrive and we get shutdown between the 2-3 zone and the other team doubling Pascal.

Yes this start mirrors last year, but winning the majority of the games late in the season when a lot of teams have committed to tanking or shut guys down doesn't impress me.

We need a wings who can breakdown defenses, get into the paint, and distribute. We have very little shot creation and too many guys who can't shoot.

I have no idea what Barnes is doing taking flat footed long twos out of the flow of the offense in 2022.

[JPriest]

Tonight was the 10th game in a row we have used a different set of starters. Unsurprisingly, we have been outscored by a total of 74 points (!!!) in the first quarter in those 10 games and we have had to fight back from early double-digit deficits numerous times. I know we've been dealing with a bunch of injuries and whatnot, but we need to stick to one starting lineup or these games where we just look completely disconnected for the first 6-12 minutes are going to keep happening.

Outside of that, both Scottie and FVV are going through a rough patch the last few games while Boucher has also been a non-factor off the bench. On the plus side, Siakam has been good since returning (22/8/4 in somewhat limited minutes at 32 MPG) even though it's clear he isn't at 100% while GTJ has been hooping off the bench. OG is still doing OG things and Juancho has been playing well over the last few weeks.

These last two games have been ugly and it's definitely concerning that we've fallen so far behind so early in the game due to our non-existent defence and effort. A complete team win/blowout against Orlando tomorrow then at the very least a competitive game against the Celtics would make me feel a bit better, but our lack of consistency this season is frustrating.

more than a rough patch man. he'll have a good shooting game once in a blue moon and loyalists will call for an apology, but his shooting numbers have been atrocious way more often than not and he brings pretty much nothing else if he's not hitting 3's. rather management actually follow through with their positionless plan and roll with a 6'7+ line up. it was beautiful basketball without FVV against the 76ers in the 2 games they won. likely would've been swept with him if he played all the games.

Beautiful basketball? We lost by like 50 points in game 6.

i said in the games the team won. did you not see the difference in how the team played without FVV? even friends who are casuals noticed the difference. they lost the last game after fighting hard to make it a series and after FVV"s presence put the team in a hole. 2-1 without FVV vs 0-3 with him. but yeah i guess you enjoy watching FVV struggling, bricking shots, being a **** overrated defender and being overall ineffective and detrimental to the team.