Raptors should announce retiring Vince Carter's jersey soon

[Chuck Everett]

I wonder if Vince went into the HOF as a Net or Mavericks player would that change anyone's perception here.

[SharoneWright]

Only if he begs on his knees at centre court.

[Scase]

Cmon, forget it.

It’s like having a smoking hot girlfriend who you loved so much… but then she cheated on you.

You don’t put her in your will.

Sure, you’ll think back on that time she gave you a BJ while overlooking Niagara Falls, but you won’t tell your grandkids about it.

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I think the rest of this thread needs to be these absurd analogies.

[xAIRNESSx]

I remember how gutted I was when the VC trade went down. I didn’t even know who Eric Williams was and he was supposed to be the best player we were getting.

I never really had resentment towards Vince. No other players embraced the city like him and DeMar did. I’m glad the majority of Raptors fans have moved past hating on VC too.

[rarefind]

I remember how gutted I was when the VC trade went down. I didn’t even know who Eric Williams was and he was supposed to be the best player we were getting.

I never really had resentment towards Vince. No other players embraced the city like him and DeMar did. I’m glad the majority of Raptors fans have moved past hating on VC too.

I mean Alonzo Mourning was the best player in the deal. It was pretty well understood that he was never going to play here, though. Eric and Aaron Williams has to be the saddest haul for one of the best players in the league at the time albeit him being disgruntled.

Good thing we drafted Joey Graham with one of the two FRP's we received.

[CazOnReal]

I feel, in these divisive times, we should all come together and watch some of Vince's Raptors highlights:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[carlosey]

The dude is literally telling you Toronto is in his heart. The general audience is warm on VC so it's definitely a when not an if.

[NinjaBro]

I remember how gutted I was when the VC trade went down. I didn’t even know who Eric Williams was and he was supposed to be the best player we were getting.

I never really had resentment towards Vince. No other players embraced the city like him and DeMar did. I’m glad the majority of Raptors fans have moved past hating on VC too.

I mean Alonzo Mourning was the best player in the deal. It was pretty well understood that he was never going to play here, though. Eric and Aaron Williams has to be the saddest haul for one of the best players in the league at the time albeit him being disgruntled.

Good thing we drafted Joey Graham with one of the two FRP's we received.

I remember how gutted I was when the VC trade went down. I didn’t even know who Eric Williams was and he was supposed to be the best player we were getting.

I never really had resentment towards Vince. No other players embraced the city like him and DeMar did. I’m glad the majority of Raptors fans have moved past hating on VC too.

I mean Alonzo Mourning was the best player in the deal. It was pretty well understood that he was never going to play here, though. Eric and Aaron Williams has to be the saddest haul for one of the best players in the league at the time albeit him being disgruntled.

Good thing we drafted Joey Graham with one of the two FRP's we received.

What's really not talked about enough here is how much Vince tanked his own trade value the days and months up until the trade. Babcock has always gotten the heat for the mediocre return but no GM at that time gave a better offer. If you were a GM at that time and you saw:

1. Vince quiting on his team during games in the season
2. Tipping off opposing teams about what plays your team is going to run
3. Going to your graduation on the day of a game 7 playoff elimination game against a formidable opponent in the Allen Iverson's 76ers, a 56 win team led by 33ppg Iverson
4. During that elimination game going 6 for 18 for a mediocre 20pts, played tired and looked like trash and got torched by Iverson
5. Admitted to ESPN that he was winded during the game. ESPN asked Chris Childs if he had a problem with Vince flying to his graduation on the day of the game 7, Child responds with "no comment"

So let me ask you this, if you were a GM at time and saw Vince quiting on his team in real time, being snippy with his own fans telling the media he isn't dunking anymore, his general lack of interest and commitment to his own team, you as the GM are you really going to break the bank with multiple first picks and blue chip prospects for this guy? There was a lot of risk for the team trading for him. Carter was averaging 15ppg at that time for the raptors, the year before he was averaging 24.

Calling Vince one of the best players at the time is also questionable. Carter had some very high highs (dunk contest) but also low lows. Fun first couple of years but generally trash afterwards.

GMs talk to scouts and people around the league. Leo was on air during games after Carter was traded that Carter would come to training camp completely out of shape, laughing on the bench when your team is losing. If we are looking at it from today's eyes no GM is going to give a you a Paul George haul in SGA and multiple first round picks for a player that looks like he's mentally checked out, averaging 15ppg.







"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[DelAbbot]

Cmon, forget it.

It’s like having a smoking hot girlfriend who you loved so much… but then she cheated on you.

You don’t put her in your will.

Sure, you’ll think back on that time she gave you a BJ while overlooking Niagara Falls, but you won’t tell your grandkids about it.

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I think the rest of this thread needs to be these absurd analogies.

One ex-gf comparison thread for Vince and one for Kawhi

[LarSiN]

He's definitely hoping for it, but I'm not

[And1Skip]

The "He only led us to 47 wins" argument has nothing to do with his inability to lead that year. That year, they were 28-27 before trading Mark Jackson and Scorliss Williamson for Childs and JYD (and then making Alvin the starting PG). After that trade the Raptors were 19-8 and then won a round and took the #1 team in the East to 7 games and last shot. There definitely was a lot to cheer about and look forward to after that season. The next season, it was up and down again but they had just figured out the winning/contending formula which was to bring Hakeem off the bench, and then VC gets season ending injury.

Glen Grunwald was a terrible GM - making so many knee-jerk moves that made the team too old and unathletic. Yes, he was good at fixing his mistakes, but after that 2002 season, Grunwald no longer could fix his mistakes as just one after the other he kept making moves that didn't make the team any better. Alvin was also playing hurt with no cartilege in his knee and Keon Clark had "issues" that they didn't want to keep him. The only healthy part of their so called "nucleus" was MoPete and obviously that wasn't enough to be even a decent team. No Voshon Leonards, Milt Palacios, or Lamond Murray was able to make the team better while VC, Alvin (and later Rose) nurse their injuries.

[ThatClockWork]

Stop it with this map ****. The Raptors never had attendance problems before Vince or after. Getting attention from American media benefited the Raptors how? How many star players said to their agents, "I want to play with Vince. Get me to Toronto!"? Not one. Getting on the map means players want to come here. Players did not want to come here because of Vince. We are no more on the map than the Charlotte Hornets or the Portland Trailblazers.

Do you know this to be 100% fact?

This is what I cannot take seriously. Posts that include statements on things that person can never possibly know with absolute certainty.

You don't know that for sure. Contacts, extensions, timing, ownership willingness to spend are all major factors that go into recruiting top talent.

Which brings me back to: how do you PERSONALLY know no one wanted to come to Toronto to play with Vince?

"Because no one did" doesn't cut it at this point.

Every couple years someone has to dig up this Vince jersey retirement garbage so in the past I looked up our attendance. Our attendance was fine pre and post Vince.

So after almost 30 years you don't think that at player, just one, being interviewed about his career, wouldn't have mentioned an effort to go to Toronto to play with Vince. Look at Damian Lillard. He demanded to be traded to the Miami Heat. Name one player who made a public demand to come here. Name one player, who in his retirement, said he had wanted to come here.

So we're cherry-picking loose correlations and passing them off as definitive fact now? Also the burden of proof is yours to provide in this case, not mine.

Please answer my question directly. Do you have any evidence to point towards no players wanting to come to Toronto to play alongside Vince?

Its also not garbage. You could just let go of the hate lol.

[That point about Tristan and Corey ... I have no idea where that came from but ... alright?

That part was not directed at you specifically, but.... the "PUT US ON THE MAP" camp believe Vince inspired a generation of athletes to play hoops who would have otherwise chosen other sports, or joined Math Club.

If VC never existed tell me which major division 1 school Jamal Murray would be spiking volleyballs for?

STOP IT.

Basketball was on the rise, period.

You need to look up some player interviews man. If you bothered to even do a simple google search, you would find articles like this that debunk your narrative immediately.There are more references that can be pulled as well if you want to stand on this hill.

You are flat out incorrect. Not even in the ballpark. Welcome back to reality..

[lobosloboslobos]

I feel, in these divisive times, we should all come together and watch some of Vince's Raptors highlights:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

At a certain point memories become choices. We all carry around tons of baggage. Some we cling to some we abandon. I've been hanging on to my Vince hate for a long time, and all those videos and plenty of other memories about his committing the seemingly unforgivable sin of being the leader and quitting on his team are all plenty valid no doubt, but so are the good memories. So it becomes a choice. For me right now, for whatever reason, age probably, I'd rather remember the good times. For all the bs, I'd argue that VC is responsible for 2 if not 3 of the most iconic moments/images in basketball history, 2 while wearing a raptors uniform and the other when he was still a Raptor. I'd rather focus on those and reclaim them as a great part of our history.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[JShuttlesworth]

I remember how gutted I was when the VC trade went down. I didn’t even know who Eric Williams was and he was supposed to be the best player we were getting.

I never really had resentment towards Vince. No other players embraced the city like him and DeMar did. I’m glad the majority of Raptors fans have moved past hating on VC too.

I mean Alonzo Mourning was the best player in the deal. It was pretty well understood that he was never going to play here, though. Eric and Aaron Williams has to be the saddest haul for one of the best players in the league at the time albeit him being disgruntled.

Good thing we drafted Joey Graham with one of the two FRP's we received.

Worst trade of all time

[TorontoBaller]

Cmon, forget it.

It’s like having a smoking hot girlfriend who you loved so much… but then she cheated on you.

You don’t put her in your will.

Sure, you’ll think back on that time she gave you a BJ while overlooking Niagara Falls, but you won’t tell your grandkids about it.

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I don’t know, man.

Raps fans sitting here with the Chip still on our lips and VC never lead any team to the conference finals.

So your analogy is sh*t. I see what you’re trying to say, you just chose the wrong guy. Vince was a beautiful pure athlete, but not a winner. And he left in a huff like a little b*tch. Granted, raps management have blame in that. I’m a fan of his. He seems like a good human, he could really play. But there are lots of great guys who’ve worn raps jerseys.

I’m not for retiring his #.
I certainly not alone…

[ThatClockWork]

Cmon, forget it.

It’s like having a smoking hot girlfriend who you loved so much… but then she cheated on you.

You don’t put her in your will.

Sure, you’ll think back on that time she gave you a BJ while overlooking Niagara Falls, but you won’t tell your grandkids about it.

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I don’t know, man.

Raps fans sitting here with the Chip still on our lips and VC never lead any team to the conference finals.

So your analogy is sh*t. I see what you’re trying to say, you just chose the wrong guy. Vince was a beautiful pure athlete, but not a winner. And he left in a huff like a little b*tch. Granted, raps management have blame in that. I’m a fan of his. He seems like a good human, he could really play. But there are lots of great guys who’ve worn raps jerseys.

I’m not for retiring his #.
I certainly not alone…

I hope you'll be punching the air wildly between your tears if his jersey ends up being retired here.

[TorontoBaller]

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I don’t know, man.

Raps fans sitting here with the Chip still on our lips and VC never lead any team to the conference finals.

So your analogy is sh*t. I see what you’re trying to say, you just chose the wrong guy. Vince was a beautiful pure athlete, but not a winner. And he left in a huff like a little b*tch. Granted, raps management have blame in that. I’m a fan of his. He seems like a good human, he could really play. But there are lots of great guys who’ve worn raps jerseys.

I’m not for retiring his #.
I certainly not alone…

I hope you'll be punching the air wildly between your tears if his jersey ends up being retired here.

I'll never boo.
I'll simply shrug.
But shrug wildly!

[TorontoBaller]

I guess if we retire Vince, let's do Damon Stoudamire, Camby, Bosh, Andrea Bargnani, Kawhi, Kyle and Demar.

Anyone who made people come out and cheer for the team.

[DelAbbot]

Cmon, forget it.

It’s like having a smoking hot girlfriend who you loved so much… but then she cheated on you.

You don’t put her in your will.

Sure, you’ll think back on that time she gave you a BJ while overlooking Niagara Falls, but you won’t tell your grandkids about it.

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I don’t know, man.

Raps fans sitting here with the Chip still on our lips and VC never lead any team to the conference finals.

So your analogy is sh*t. I see what you’re trying to say, you just chose the wrong guy. Vince was a beautiful pure athlete, but not a winner. And he left in a huff like a little b*tch. Granted, raps management have blame in that. I’m a fan of his. He seems like a good human, he could really play. But there are lots of great guys who’ve worn raps jerseys.

I’m not for retiring his #.
I certainly not alone…

The championship might be a climax but Vince's highlights were the foreplay - and you don't forget those for that real hot one that got away

[Mikistan]

nah, it's more like that hot girl back in high school during summer camp, who decided to make a man out of you scrawny nerdy boy. Then she went back to dating jocks and you never saw her again.

It's a memory you will carry to your death bed.

I don’t know, man.

Raps fans sitting here with the Chip still on our lips and VC never lead any team to the conference finals.

So your analogy is sh*t. I see what you’re trying to say, you just chose the wrong guy. Vince was a beautiful pure athlete, but not a winner. And he left in a huff like a little b*tch. Granted, raps management have blame in that. I’m a fan of his. He seems like a good human, he could really play. But there are lots of great guys who’ve worn raps jerseys.

I’m not for retiring his #.
I certainly not alone…

The championship might be a climax but Vince's highlights were the foreplay - and you don't forget those for that real hot one that got away

The one that got away but still ended up alone with no family to call her own