Raptors attempting to trade up in the draft

[youreachiteach]

The flipside of that argument is that you are wasting another year of Barnes opportunity to win. It's one thing to decide that what they have done isn't working and then decide to tank in a strong draft--but there is no reason to cut their legs out from under them before they even start for a player in the draft who will probably not be competitive on Scottie's timeline (in terms of winning over the next few years).

Part of convincing him to stay will be the team's effort in trying to surround him with talent. I very much doubt IQ, Scottie or Barrett would be in favor of this. Even Jakob has said he's good being here as long as we try. Another year of tanking devalues our assets even more than they are--which will make it hard to get better through trades, our most likely avenue to improvement. It would be great to get Scottie another star, but I think they would feel the team is at least owed a shot before it is detonated again, right after they have gone through major reconstruction not half a season ago.

[WuTang_CMB]

The flipside of that argument is that you are wasting another year of Barnes opportunity to win. It's one thing to decide that what they have done isn't working and then decide to tank in a strong draft--but there is no reason to cut their legs out from under them before they even start for a player in the draft who will probably not be competitive on Scottie's timeline (in terms of winning over the next few years).

Part of convincing him to stay will be the team's effort in trying to surround him with talent. I very much doubt IQ, Scottie or Barrett would be in favor of this. Even Jakob has said he's good being here as long as we try. Another year of tanking devalues our assets even more than they are--which will make it hard to get better through trades, our most likely avenue to improvement. It would be great to get Scottie another star, but I think they would feel the team is at least owed a shot before it is detonated again, right after they have gone through major reconstruction not half a season ago.

Raps will "try" to win next season as they always do but big picture, they know it's likely another development season.

I don't think they are bottom 5 bad unless they get a bunch of injuries .. but they are likely 30-35 wins next season, sitting with a top 10 pick for 2025' ... similar to Utah this season

they have below average defense, no depth and a 2nd year coach. That's a recipe for the lottery.

[Drakeem]

But Darko said in an interview that they were happy the pick conveyed because it's a weak draft and next year will be better. Now all of a sudden they want to trade up into the lottery?

I mean, both can be true? They might rather keep their pick for next year and value that draft more than this one, but still want to have a higher pick in this draft?

[SHFT]

The flipside of that argument is that you are wasting another year of Barnes opportunity to win. It's one thing to decide that what they have done isn't working and then decide to tank in a strong draft--but there is no reason to cut their legs out from under them before they even start for a player in the draft who will probably not be competitive on Scottie's timeline (in terms of winning over the next few years).

Part of convincing him to stay will be the team's effort in trying to surround him with talent. I very much doubt IQ, Scottie or Barrett would be in favor of this. Even Jakob has said he's good being here as long as we try. Another year of tanking devalues our assets even more than they are--which will make it hard to get better through trades, our most likely avenue to improvement. It would be great to get Scottie another star, but I think they would feel the team is at least owed a shot before it is detonated again, right after they have gone through major reconstruction not half a season ago.

Barnes is 100% signing his max rookie extension regardless of our team record.

Sent from my SM-G991W using RealGM mobile app

[islandboy53]

Darko emphasized the drafts after 2024 as the ones Toronto has interest in. So, at some point we need to consider bottoming out without alienating the entire fanbase. Zach Edey could provide enough interest for average fans to watch the Raptors during a down year. It will be rough but worth giving him the opportunity to play to see if he can .

The best way to position us for one of Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or Nolan Traore is to part ways with Jakob Poeltl. He doesn't make Toronto contenders, but he does make us a stronger defensive team that equates to unnecessary wins. I'd be afraid of us threatening for a play-in spot.

Now, Toronto could roll the dice and hope Edey falls to them at 19 or they can make a trade to move up and package Poeltl with 19 and 31 like Vecenie proposed. Now it may seem like a reach, but we know that Portland, Utah and LA all have had him in and have some level of interest and all have higher picks than Toronto.

Is Poeltl worth more than a 9 pick? If you want to win now, probably yes, but no one can see him as a long-term option in Toronto given his age and offensive limitations. Does it look bad when we gave up so much to acquire him? Absolutely, but now is the time to undue past mistakes.

Toronto saves money long-term, you stay bottom five bad and you develop a young Canadian player. A guy like Kennard coming back is good because he has a team option for next season so we can just walk away from the money like Bruce Brown if we wanted to. Both guys could be tradeable even right before the start of the 2024 offseason. You keep them, they are both good vets that have zero impact on winning but are good culture guys.

Brown and Kennard both have team options for 24/25 which need to be exercised by the 28th and 29th, respectively. They can only be traded if their options are picked up.

[youreachiteach]

Yeah, it depends what they add. If they add a backup 5, a backup 1 and a SF, I'd say they were playin/off caliber. That is a lot to get, but not impossible by any means. Hopefully if what they have acquired looks bad early on, they pull the plug early.

[youreachiteach]

The flipside of that argument is that you are wasting another year of Barnes opportunity to win. It's one thing to decide that what they have done isn't working and then decide to tank in a strong draft--but there is no reason to cut their legs out from under them before they even start for a player in the draft who will probably not be competitive on Scottie's timeline (in terms of winning over the next few years).

Part of convincing him to stay will be the team's effort in trying to surround him with talent. I very much doubt IQ, Scottie or Barrett would be in favor of this. Even Jakob has said he's good being here as long as we try. Another year of tanking devalues our assets even more than they are--which will make it hard to get better through trades, our most likely avenue to improvement. It would be great to get Scottie another star, but I think they would feel the team is at least owed a shot before it is detonated again, right after they have gone through major reconstruction not half a season ago.

Barnes is 100% signing his max rookie extension regardless of our team record.

Sent from my SM-G991W using RealGM mobile app

That depends when he signs it. He himself said he wants to win.

[YogurtProducer]

The flipside of that argument is that you are wasting another year of Barnes opportunity to win. It's one thing to decide that what they have done isn't working and then decide to tank in a strong draft--but there is no reason to cut their legs out from under them before they even start for a player in the draft who will probably not be competitive on Scottie's timeline (in terms of winning over the next few years).

Part of convincing him to stay will be the team's effort in trying to surround him with talent. I very much doubt IQ, Scottie or Barrett would be in favor of this. Even Jakob has said he's good being here as long as we try. Another year of tanking devalues our assets even more than they are--which will make it hard to get better through trades, our most likely avenue to improvement. It would be great to get Scottie another star, but I think they would feel the team is at least owed a shot before it is detonated again, right after they have gone through major reconstruction not half a season ago.

Barnes is 100% signing his max rookie extension regardless of our team record.

Sent from my SM-G991W using RealGM mobile app

That depends when he signs it. He himself said he wants to win.

HE is not turning down $150M or whatever it is to take the QO.

[youreachiteach]

I mean, probably, it's the first one...but opportunities are limited to improve. In the aggregate, would you rather make him upset by wasting a whole season for an asset that may or may not move the needle in a flat draft? It would be nice if we were guaranteed Cooper Flagg but that's not the way it works. We're probably too good to hit the very bottom anyway.

You realize that many star players have left us for less, right?

[Duffman100]

I mean, probably, it's the first one...but opportunities are limited to improve. In the aggregate, would you rather make him upset by wasting a whole season for an asset that may or may not move the needle in a flat draft? It would be nice if we were guaranteed Cooper Flagg but that's not the way it works. We're probably too good to hit the very bottom anyway.

You realize that many star players have left us for less, right?

I feel like we've worried about Barnes being upset way too much and we shouldn't be dictated any decisions on this. He hasn't earned that level of concern from us yet.

[youreachiteach]

He's not rookie Barnes anymore and he's clearly been given the keys to the franchise. I think we do have to care now.

[OakleyDokely]

I mean, probably, it's the first one...but opportunities are limited to improve. In the aggregate, would you rather make him upset by wasting a whole season for an asset that may or may not move the needle in a flat draft? It would be nice if we were guaranteed Cooper Flagg but that's not the way it works. We're probably too good to hit the very bottom anyway.

You realize that many star players have left us for less, right?

I feel like we've worried about Barnes being upset way too much and we shouldn't be dictated any decisions on this. He hasn't earned that level of concern from us yet.

That max Barnes will sign will ease the pain.

[Psubs]

I mean, probably, it's the first one...but opportunities are limited to improve. In the aggregate, would you rather make him upset by wasting a whole season for an asset that may or may not move the needle in a flat draft? It would be nice if we were guaranteed Cooper Flagg but that's not the way it works. We're probably too good to hit the very bottom anyway.

You realize that many star players have left us for less, right?

What makes Cooper Flagg better than Matas Buzelis? When I see their tapes, they look very similar.

Buzelis has already held his own in the GLeague. I guess age-wise Buzelis is 2 years older.

Watch on YouTube

[TRik]

He's not rookie Barnes anymore and he's clearly been given the keys to the franchise. I think we do have to care now.

100 percent. He’s basically our entire future at this point and we’ve fumbled his first few years. He and his agent see the same things we all see.

[HumbleRen]

He’s not declining an QO lol.

He’ll take the max rookie extension in a heart beat, the move nowadays is to accept the extension then request a trade a year or 2 down the line.

I don’t think we have to worry about Scottie leaving us. He’s not that caliber of player yet to dictate trade demands.

[Duffman100]

He’s not declining an QO lol.

He’ll take the max rookie extension in a heart beat, the move nowadays is to accept the extension then request a trade a year or 2 down the line.

I don’t think we have to worry about Scottie leaving us. He’s not that caliber of player yet to dictate trade demands.

Exactly. Make the right decisions for your team. Scottie isn't Lebron James.

He's a very good player with a very good ceiling. Not someone you cater your organizational decisions to. At least not yet.

[HumbleRen]

He’s not declining an QO lol.

He’ll take the max rookie extension in a heart beat, the move nowadays is to accept the extension then request a trade a year or 2 down the line.

I don’t think we have to worry about Scottie leaving us. He’s not that caliber of player yet to dictate trade demands.

Exactly. Make the right decisions for your team. Scottie isn't Lebron James.

He's a very good player with a very good ceiling. Not someone you cater your organizational decisions to. At least not yet.

Even Tatum wouldn’t be able to do that lol. There’s no way Masai would ever hand the reigns to a player in that fashion. Didn’t even flinch to Kawhi’s demands of getting PG/Westbrokk.

[Dalek]

Darko emphasized the drafts after 2024 as the ones Toronto has interest in. So, at some point we need to consider bottoming out without alienating the entire fanbase. Zach Edey could provide enough interest for average fans to watch the Raptors during a down year. It will be rough but worth giving him the opportunity to play to see if he can .

The best way to position us for one of Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or Nolan Traore is to part ways with Jakob Poeltl. He doesn't make Toronto contenders, but he does make us a stronger defensive team that equates to unnecessary wins. I'd be afraid of us threatening for a play-in spot.

Now, Toronto could roll the dice and hope Edey falls to them at 19 or they can make a trade to move up and package Poeltl with 19 and 31 like Vecenie proposed. Now it may seem like a reach, but we know that Portland, Utah and LA all have had him in and have some level of interest and all have higher picks than Toronto.

Is Poeltl worth more than a 9 pick? If you want to win now, probably yes, but no one can see him as a long-term option in Toronto given his age and offensive limitations. Does it look bad when we gave up so much to acquire him? Absolutely, but now is the time to undue past mistakes.

Toronto saves money long-term, you stay bottom five bad and you develop a young Canadian player. A guy like Kennard coming back is good because he has a team option for next season so we can just walk away from the money like Bruce Brown if we wanted to. Both guys could be tradeable even right before the start of the 2024 offseason. You keep them, they are both good vets that have zero impact on winning but are good culture guys.

Brown and Kennard both have team options for 24/25 which need to be exercised by the 28th and 29th, respectively. They can only be traded if their options are picked up.

Fair point. Toronto would need to know they have a deal before picking up the options. I think they probably should pick up both since we probably won't be spenders in this offseason.

[islandboy53]

Darko emphasized the drafts after 2024 as the ones Toronto has interest in. So, at some point we need to consider bottoming out without alienating the entire fanbase. Zach Edey could provide enough interest for average fans to watch the Raptors during a down year. It will be rough but worth giving him the opportunity to play to see if he can .

The best way to position us for one of Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or Nolan Traore is to part ways with Jakob Poeltl. He doesn't make Toronto contenders, but he does make us a stronger defensive team that equates to unnecessary wins. I'd be afraid of us threatening for a play-in spot.

Now, Toronto could roll the dice and hope Edey falls to them at 19 or they can make a trade to move up and package Poeltl with 19 and 31 like Vecenie proposed. Now it may seem like a reach, but we know that Portland, Utah and LA all have had him in and have some level of interest and all have higher picks than Toronto.

Is Poeltl worth more than a 9 pick? If you want to win now, probably yes, but no one can see him as a long-term option in Toronto given his age and offensive limitations. Does it look bad when we gave up so much to acquire him? Absolutely, but now is the time to undue past mistakes.

Toronto saves money long-term, you stay bottom five bad and you develop a young Canadian player. A guy like Kennard coming back is good because he has a team option for next season so we can just walk away from the money like Bruce Brown if we wanted to. Both guys could be tradeable even right before the start of the 2024 offseason. You keep them, they are both good vets that have zero impact on winning but are good culture guys.

Brown and Kennard both have team options for 24/25 which need to be exercised by the 28th and 29th, respectively. They can only be traded if their options are picked up.

Fair point. Toronto would need to know they have a deal before picking up the options. I think they probably should pick up both since we probably won't be spenders in this offseason.

Toronto only has an option on Brown. Memphis would need to pick up Kennard's option before they could trade him. Memphis is a 1st apron team if they keep him, or trade him for similar or greater salary coming back. Brown for Kennard, for instance, puts them right at the 2nd apron. Bottom line, they need to drop Kennard, get under the tax line, and operate from there.

[dkb964]

If everyone seems to think it was a bad idea knowing where it landed to the 8th pick for Poeltl why in the hell would the Grizzles trade the 9th pick and other assets for for him?

A thing called context is why...

For a rebuilding team like ours who was in deep in the lottery despite having most of their players available to them at the time of the trade and who was missing the Playoffs more often than not. Who also is nowhere remotely near contention with him on the roster. It didn’t and doesn’t make sense to have Poeltl who he himself said he didn’t want to be a part of a rebuild and now finds himself in that position when the franchise changed course on him…

For MEM on the other hand that has an obvious superstar, a budding young core in Bane & JJJ who are all closer to their primes, that had been in the Playoffs and was ascending and who added another good vet (Smart) with yet another good young player (GG) plus Poeltl’s addition will likely help them contend which makes TOTAL sense!

But somehow that evades you?!?

It makes way more sense for them to sign Hartenstein or Claxton and keep their lottery pick. But sonehow that evades you!?