Shams: KAT to the Knicks

[ForeverTFC]

Calling KAT a quality though flawed starter is kinda wild. Randle is clearly a tier below KAT, so adding sweetner is pretty understandable. Evidently DDV wanted out and the pick is pretty worthless, so it's a pretty solid return.

Eh, I guess subjective. Neither KAT or Randle make the RealGM top 30 while Siakam has been a mainstay. I want to be clear that I think both are below Siakam and consensus on this forum (on the GB) agrees with me.

With that said, DDV wanting out is irrlevant. OG also wanted out. Point remains that KAT has a claim for the worst contract in the league. In my opinion, our return was “better”.

With that said, I will again say that I think Siakam is a more valuable player than both and therefore I still think we should have gotten more for Siakam.

The real GM top 30 means quite literally nothing lol. This entire forum is dominated by the Raps board, so that is unsurprising. Personally, I think KAT is a tier above both Randle/Siakam whom of which I consider to be the same level of player, but I can understand different people value different skills.

But ultimately we are in agreement, that our return was not very good and should have been better.

It’s a poll of fans who are in the 90th+ percentile in terms of following the NBA. We can quibble about placement any given year, but when one player consistently makes the list and the others consistently don’t, it’s a pretty consistent narrative. Also, Siakam is not on the Raptors this year and was still voted in.

You are welcome to your opinion of course. But your opinion does not follow the majority here.

[Scase]

Eh, I guess subjective. Neither KAT or Randle make the RealGM top 30 while Siakam has been a mainstay. I want to be clear that I think both are below Siakam and consensus on this forum (on the GB) agrees with me.

With that said, DDV wanting out is irrlevant. OG also wanted out. Point remains that KAT has a claim for the worst contract in the league. In my opinion, our return was “better”.

With that said, I will again say that I think Siakam is a more valuable player than both and therefore I still think we should have gotten more for Siakam.

The real GM top 30 means quite literally nothing lol. This entire forum is dominated by the Raps board, so that is unsurprising. Personally, I think KAT is a tier above both Randle/Siakam whom of which I consider to be the same level of player, but I can understand different people value different skills.

But ultimately we are in agreement, that our return was not very good and should have been better.

It’s a poll of fans who are in the 90th+ percentile in terms of following the NBA. We can quibble about placement any given year, but when one player consistently makes the list and the others consistently don’t, it’s a pretty consistent narrative. Also, Siakam is not on the Raptors this year and was still voted in.

You are welcome to your opinion of course. But your opinion does not follow the majority here.

And Siakam no longer being on the Raptors means what exactly? People still glaze over him and FVV on these boards, it doesn't matter. The point is that the Raptors board is the most popular by a WIDE margin, and that absolutely has an impact on the results.

Ultimately at worst you can argue they are all right in the same range as each other.

[DreamTeam09]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

[XTC]

Calling KAT a quality though flawed starter is kinda wild. Randle is clearly a tier below KAT, so adding sweetner is pretty understandable. Evidently DDV wanted out and the pick is pretty worthless, so it's a pretty solid return.

Eh, I guess subjective. Neither KAT or Randle make the RealGM top 30 while Siakam has been a mainstay. I want to be clear that I think both are below Siakam and consensus on this forum (on the GB) agrees with me.

With that said, DDV wanting out is irrlevant. OG also wanted out. Point remains that KAT has a claim for the worst contract in the league. In my opinion, our return was “better”.

With that said, I will again say that I think Siakam is a more valuable player than both and therefore I still think we should have gotten more for Siakam.

The real GM top 30 means quite literally nothing lol. This entire forum is dominated by the Raps board, so that is unsurprising. Personally, I think KAT is a tier above both Randle/Siakam whom of which I consider to be the same level of player, but I can understand different people value different skills.

But ultimately we are in agreement, that our return was not very good and should have been better.

KAT definitely peaked higher than Pascal, but he's been on the down swing for awhile now.

The past two seasons here are their stats. For fun let's add Randle into the mix aswell.

KAT
21.4/8.3/3.9/0.7/0.6
50.1/39.9/87.4
TS 63.1%
PER 18.8
BPM 2.7

Pascal
22.9/7.4/5.0/0.8/0.4
50.7/33.4/75.5
TS 58.3%
PER 20.0
BPM 2.5

Randle
24.7/9.7/4.4/0.6/0.3
46.4/33.4/76.6
TS 57.7%
PER 19.8
BPM 3.0

Like I said KAT definitely peaked higher when he was younger, but his play has been on the downswing for awhile, and Pascal/Randle have been out producing him the last couple years. KAT's value is his shooting, and his ability to play the 5, but I'm not so sure he's better than either player at the moment. I do think he's a better fit on the Knicks just because they lack shooting, and KAT has shown the ability to play the 5.

[Scase]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

Yeah, cause it's trolling to discuss trade packages about players similar to trade packages for players we traded away for peanuts.

Maybe if you stopped trying to defend everything the FO does, you'd realize not everything is "trolling Masai". Doubtful though.

[ForeverTFC]

Eh, I guess subjective. Neither KAT or Randle make the RealGM top 30 while Siakam has been a mainstay. I want to be clear that I think both are below Siakam and consensus on this forum (on the GB) agrees with me.

With that said, DDV wanting out is irrlevant. OG also wanted out. Point remains that KAT has a claim for the worst contract in the league. In my opinion, our return was “better”.

With that said, I will again say that I think Siakam is a more valuable player than both and therefore I still think we should have gotten more for Siakam.

The real GM top 30 means quite literally nothing lol. This entire forum is dominated by the Raps board, so that is unsurprising. Personally, I think KAT is a tier above both Randle/Siakam whom of which I consider to be the same level of player, but I can understand different people value different skills.

But ultimately we are in agreement, that our return was not very good and should have been better.

KAT definitely peaked higher than Pascal, but he's been on the down swing for awhile now.

The past two seasons here are their stats. For fun let's add Randle into the mix aswell.

KAT
21.4/8.3/3.9/0.7/0.6
50.1/39.9/87.4
TS 63.1%
PER 18.8
BPM 2.7

Pascal
22.9/7.4/5.0/0.8/0.4
50.7/33.4/75.5
TS 58.3%
PER 20.0
BPM 2.5

Randle
24.7/9.7/4.4/0.6/0.3
46.4/33.4/76.6
TS 57.7%
PER 19.8
BPM 3.0

Like I said KAT definitely peaked higher when he was younger, but his play has been on the downswing for awhile, and Pascal/Randle have been out producing him the last couple years. KAT's value is his shooting, and his ability to play the 5, but I'm not so sure he's better than either player at the moment. I do think he's a better fit on the Knicks just because they lack shooting, and KAT has shown the ability to play the 5.

Yup. There is also the defensive side of the ball where Siakam, despite regressing some there, grades out a tier at minimum above both.

It will be interesting to see if Thibs puts KAT back into the drop. He’s an awful drop big.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The real question is whether KAT will out perform Koloko this year. Obviously Ulrich Chomche will have a better year than Towns, but it's the KAT/Koloko matchup that will be the one to watch.

[DreamTeam09]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

Yeah, cause it's trolling to discuss trade packages about players similar to trade packages for players we traded away for peanuts.

Maybe if you stopped trying to defend everything the FO does, you'd realize not everything is "trolling Masai". Doubtful though.

It's a totally different situation based on salary structure.
Minnesota made the deal this yr, Pascal is on a max contract this year, the same contract they just got off of because their roster is unsustainable from a financial standpoint. Seeing how their franchise is currently in litigation for sale..

Yeah so continue on bashing the organization based on hypotheticals that aren't even realistic & look at me like I'm the weird one when the original post everyone is responding to mentions Masai in trolling manner
Randle is on a 1+1

[Scase]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

Yeah, cause it's trolling to discuss trade packages about players similar to trade packages for players we traded away for peanuts.

Maybe if you stopped trying to defend everything the FO does, you'd realize not everything is "trolling Masai". Doubtful though.

It's a totally different situation based on salary structure.
Minnesota made the deal this yr, Pascal is on a max contract this year, the same contract they just got off of because their roster is unsustainable from a financial standpoint. Seeing how their franchise is currently in litigation for sale..

Yeah so continue on bashing the organization based on hypotheticals that aren't even realistic & look at me like I'm the weird one when the original post everyone is responding to mentions Masai in trolling manner
Randle is on a 1+1

Randle my guy, Randle.

Him and Siakam are borderline the same player, both on expirings. Randle in no way is picking up that option, he is an expiring in every sense.

[PushDaRock]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

Never miss a good opportunity to dunk on Masai

[PushDaRock]

Minny wasn't trading Kat last yr so Pascal has to do with this how exactly? Cuz of a post that's ultimately about trolling the organization or Masai

Yeah, cause it's trolling to discuss trade packages about players similar to trade packages for players we traded away for peanuts.

Maybe if you stopped trying to defend everything the FO does, you'd realize not everything is "trolling Masai". Doubtful though.

Who did we trade away for peanuts?

[ForeverTFC]

Yeah, cause it's trolling to discuss trade packages about players similar to trade packages for players we traded away for peanuts.

Maybe if you stopped trying to defend everything the FO does, you'd realize not everything is "trolling Masai". Doubtful though.

It's a totally different situation based on salary structure.
Minnesota made the deal this yr, Pascal is on a max contract this year, the same contract they just got off of because their roster is unsustainable from a financial standpoint. Seeing how their franchise is currently in litigation for sale..

Yeah so continue on bashing the organization based on hypotheticals that aren't even realistic & look at me like I'm the weird one when the original post everyone is responding to mentions Masai in trolling manner
Randle is on a 1+1

Randle my guy, Randle.

Him and Siakam are borderline the same player, both on expirings. Randle in no way is picking up that option, he is an expiring in every sense.

It’s so obvious that you don’t watch the league or read anything. You realize a sizable portion of pundits think Minny won this deal right?

So clueless yet so confident. Its honestly bizarre.

[HangTime]

I think a Scottie/KAT duo would've been interesting

[Thaddy]

I think a Scottie/KAT duo would've been interesting

Any quality stretch 5 would make Barnes look better on offense. The defense would be a concern. We need a defensive stretch 5 that can protect the rim and play off ball. KAT would make us a playoff team but we wouldn't be a contender. That would be a fools gold move and I'm glad we didn't step in that direction.

[deeps6x]

DD shot 40% from 3 last year on 9 attempts which is actually solid.

But how are Gobert and Randle supposed to co-exist when neither can stretch the floor? I feel like they overall downgraded but maybe they can pick something up with the draft pick they acquired before the season starts.

That IS solid. What was DD's average 3 point % while he was a Raptor?

[douggood]

DD shot 40% from 3 last year on 9 attempts which is actually solid.

But how are Gobert and Randle supposed to co-exist when neither can stretch the floor? I feel like they overall downgraded but maybe they can pick something up with the draft pick they acquired before the season starts.

That IS solid. What was DD's average 3 point % while he was a Raptor?

DD in this context/thread is Donte devencizo, not demar derozan.

[alienchild]

DD shot 40% from 3 last year on 9 attempts which is actually solid.

But how are Gobert and Randle supposed to co-exist when neither can stretch the floor? I feel like they overall downgraded but maybe they can pick something up with the draft pick they acquired before the season starts.

That IS solid. What was DD's average 3 point % while he was a Raptor?

Donte Devincenzo

[Scase]

It's a totally different situation based on salary structure.
Minnesota made the deal this yr, Pascal is on a max contract this year, the same contract they just got off of because their roster is unsustainable from a financial standpoint. Seeing how their franchise is currently in litigation for sale..

Yeah so continue on bashing the organization based on hypotheticals that aren't even realistic & look at me like I'm the weird one when the original post everyone is responding to mentions Masai in trolling manner
Randle is on a 1+1

Randle my guy, Randle.

Him and Siakam are borderline the same player, both on expirings. Randle in no way is picking up that option, he is an expiring in every sense.

It’s so obvious that you don’t watch the league or read anything. You realize a sizable portion of pundits think Minny won this deal right?

So clueless yet so confident. Its honestly bizarre.

Do you really need to be a dick to have a discussion? Pundits can think what they want, doesn't make me clueless because I'm capable of holding my own opinion instead of just regurgitating what others say.

Minny got worse, but they got off of a pending huge contract. The Knicks became a more serious contender. Winner or loser is purely perspective based. All those pundits said the JB contract was stupid and an overpay, but a few of us used our brains and realized that championship contention windows are small and sometimes you have to go all in.

The knicks are doing just that, maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but they gotta shoot their shot.

[deeps6x]

DD shot 40% from 3 last year on 9 attempts which is actually solid.

But how are Gobert and Randle supposed to co-exist when neither can stretch the floor? I feel like they overall downgraded but maybe they can pick something up with the draft pick they acquired before the season starts.

That IS solid. What was DD's average 3 point % while he was a Raptor?

DD in this context/thread is Donte devencizo, not demar derozan.

Damn, I was about to be impressed with his growth.

[kalel123]

You forgot the 3 1sts, Brown was just to match salary and maybe get another pick for him.

Correct, you are. And those picks ended up being 19th pick in 2024, projected to be one of the worst draft in years! Late pick in 2024 that ended up being Isiah Collier, projected #1 pick at one point, for UTAH f'ing JAZZ! And we got Agbaji AND re-signed Olynyk both of whom bombed like none other during summer plays. And last-but-certain-to-be-the-least... A mystery mid-to-low pick in 2026!

Did I mention Ja'Kobe Walter is now injured alongside Bruce Brown? Both of them come from the great Siakam tree, the garbage that keeps on giving~!

What great returns they are. So worthless.

Uh I was just correcting the other poster who stated we only got Brown for Siakam... Secondly, we don't know what Walter will turn out to be in the future, too early, and who cares if he's injured now, that has zero impact on whatever future value a rookie has. Also, there's no idea to know what we'll get with the Pacers '26 pick. I'm not saying the immediate value was great, but based on the rumors nobody was offering anything better, would you have preferred the hawks offer of Hunter, Griffin & a 1st, or how about Sac's offer of Barnes, Huerter & a 1st?

And I'm merely correcting you that adding the POS worthless picks, don't matter how many, doesn't make the return any better when chances are, Bruce Brown could very well be the best player when all's said and done. You can throw "oh you never know" BS as many times as you want, doesn't change the fact Ja'Kobe Walter's most likely projected path is as a middling role player. That's how things normally go for most 19th picks in any draft (i.e. if they stick at all) let alone one of the worse drafts that he's a part of. And that '26 Indiana pick? Would need some type of special dumb **** to not realize that's most likely going to be another 19th-ish pick waiting to happen barring disastrous injuries to some of Indiana's players seeing as how they retained Siakam and didn't lose any of their young prospects in the process of acquiring him. We really need to stop insulting each other's intelligence and get real about that pick. There's a very good reason Indiana was willing to give that up over any of their young propsects worth a damn.

I don't know if anybody was offering anything better and neither do you (last I checked, Randle/KAT trade never showed up on any rumor mill so don't need to be genius to figure the rumors aren't necessarily all it's cracked up to be). But even if that were true, that's because they decided to wait to the last minute to deal Siakam when his value was at its lowest. Should've dealt him a year earlier when it was crystal clear that flawed core was going nowhere fast instead of doubling down on it with Poeltl by mortgaging the future. Or even during the offseason. Logic and past/present examples (RANDLE) dictate: at that point, they would've gotten more value back and doesn't take much to be better than the garbage we got. But alas, they are delusional and slow to act until reality hits them right in the face and then some, which explains why Bruce Brown is still here deciding to heal on company time.