WT: Giannis Antetokounmpo's Future With Bucks 'The Elephant In The Room' In NBA

[CazOnReal]

Lillard just tore his Achilles. Raptors better be offering anyone on their roster for Giannis this summer.

Just so they can be in the same spot as the Bucks are now but with 10 years lacking pick control for us vs 5 for the Bucks right now?

Like, I don't know how anyone gets the thought through their head that we should trade for Giannis when the assets to get him would put us in the same spot: Lacking assets, lacking depth and with a potentially grumpy Giannis who doesn't even have history with the team to potentially convince him to stay despite being stuck in non-contention.

Have no hope and be a treadmill team without a superstar vs. Adding a generational player and trying to figure it out around him

Hmm yeah it’s a real tough one

"No hope" like we aren't still rebuilding, retooling or whatever term you want to go with.

Hi fallacy, how are you doing?

We are literally a lottery team this season. You can't be a treadmill team when you haven't even gotten on one, and this team hasn't been on one for about a season and a half.

And again: There is no "figuring it out" when Giannis is only under contract for 2 more years (3rd year is a player option) and just to outbid other teams you're going to be left barren barring incredible luck in this year's lottery. You have Giannis and you're stuck with what little would be left.

Frankly, even if we do luck out i'd value the 9 or so years with Flagg or Harper where we could very easily pivot to a superstar trade while retaining some manner of depth than 2 with Giannis where we'd be left barren if he does leave us.

[ItsDanger]

Warriors makes sense for him. Don't think money works though.

[CazOnReal]

Warriors makes sense for him. Don't think money works though.

Draymond would have to be included, at minimum. Also Kuminga's S+T would have to be somewhere above $25 million for at least Year 1.

[Randle McMurphy]

Just so they can be in the same spot as the Bucks are now but with 10 years lacking pick control for us vs 5 for the Bucks right now?

Like, I don't know how anyone gets the thought through their head that we should trade for Giannis when the assets to get him would put us in the same spot: Lacking assets, lacking depth and with a potentially grumpy Giannis who doesn't even have history with the team to potentially convince him to stay despite being stuck in non-contention.

Have no hope and be a treadmill team without a superstar vs. Adding a generational player and trying to figure it out around him

Hmm yeah it’s a real tough one

"No hope" like we aren't still rebuilding, retooling or whatever term you want to go with.

Treadmilling is the term I want to go with because it’s the only accurate depiction of what the front office is doing with this roster right now.

I’ll take the superstar and actually have a chance at contending some time again in my lifetime, thanks.

[tdotrep2]

you'd have to hope milwaukee is super high on scottie, or else we have little chance.

[CazOnReal]

Have no hope and be a treadmill team without a superstar vs. Adding a generational player and trying to figure it out around him

Hmm yeah it’s a real tough one

"No hope" like we aren't still rebuilding, retooling or whatever term you want to go with.

Treadmilling is the term I want to go with because it’s the only accurate depiction of what the front office is doing with this roster right now.

I’ll take the superstar and actually have a chance at contending some time again in my lifetime, thanks.

1. This roster has been together for, like, a year due to massive turnover from prior year's makeup of the team. Treadmill once again does not apply in this situation and it's bad faith to argue otherwise.

2. The current evidence would suggest that you're not contending with Giannis and a barebones roster...aka. reality. This isn't the early 00s where a star can carry a bunch of nothing to a Finals a la Tim Duncan in 03, you need depth and supporting pieces that compliment a star. Adding Giannis to this team doesn't make them a contender, it just makes you the current Bucks sans-injured Lillard.

3. This is even assuming you have the best offer for Giannis which there's reason to believe Toronto will not.

[anotherhomer]

Warriors makes sense for him. Don't think money works though.

make sense for giannis but not bucks

bucks most logical choice is okc

[CPT]

You can be a treadmill team in the lottery. You can also be a treadmill team in the playoffs.

Treadmill is a bit of a catch-all, but I take it to mean going nowhere. By that definition, I would call this a treadmill team. Yeah, the team is young and should improve, but the ceiling still looks pretty low.

Some lottery luck would help, but otherwise, we're going to need a move like this to be relevant again.

I understand if people think we'd get outbid. We probably would. Our asset base isn't that deep. However, I don't really understand the people who think we shouldn't try, or fiercely disagree with the hypothetical. Ironically, I'd understand if fans OKC and Houston, two of the teams who could easily outbid us, would prefer to see how things go with their young cores, but what exactly are we hanging on to that we would pass up a chance at Giannis?

Despite not being high on the present or future roster, make no mistake, any halfway reasonable trade would leave us in a much better situation than Milwaukee. It's not going to end well there. They have an old team and no picks - they can't even bottom out and rebuild. They're likely to make some kind of rebuild-on-the-fly move rather than a total teardown. It's not going to work, but that's pretty much the only option they have.

[Los_29]

Have no hope and be a treadmill team without a superstar vs. Adding a generational player and trying to figure it out around him

Hmm yeah it’s a real tough one

"No hope" like we aren't still rebuilding, retooling or whatever term you want to go with.

Treadmilling is the term I want to go with because it’s the only accurate depiction of what the front office is doing with this roster right now.

I’ll take the superstar and actually have a chance at contending some time again in my lifetime, thanks.

Team has their lottery pick. They are in a good position to add a good young talent to the roster.

Treadmill teams are defined as teams that are stuck in the middle with an aging, expensive core. Not for young teams in line to get a good draft pick.

I’d easily make an offer for Giannis. But if you’ve been following basketball the past few years, these trades have not had a high success rate. You need depth to win and trading all of your depth to get a player like Giannis could leave you with too many holes to fill. He’s also on the wrong side of 30 and relies on heavily on athleticism.

[bluerap23]

You can be a treadmill team in the lottery. You can also be a treadmill team in the playoffs.

Treadmill is a bit of a catch-all, but I take it to mean going nowhere. By that definition, I would call this a treadmill team. Yeah, the team is young and should improve, but the ceiling still looks pretty low.

Some lottery luck would help, but otherwise, we're going to need a move like this to be relevant again.

I understand if people think we'd get outbid. We probably would. Our asset base isn't that deep. However, I don't really understand the people who think we shouldn't try, or fiercely disagree with the hypothetical. Ironically, I'd understand if fans OKC and Houston, two of the teams who could easily outbid us, would prefer to see how things go with their young cores, but what exactly are we hanging on to that we would pass up a chance at Giannis?

Despite not being high on the present or future roster, make no mistake, any halfway reasonable trade would leave us in a much better situation than Milwaukee. It's not going to end well there. They have an old team and no picks - they can't even bottom out and rebuild. They're likely to make some kind of rebuild-on-the-fly move rather than a total teardown. It's not going to work, but that's pretty much the only option they have.

You can't make up your own definition of treadmill. It is what it sounds like, staying in the same place. Given that our win total has been in significant fluctuation over the last 5 years and the team has been changing directions - it is not a treadmill. If we win around 30 games next season you'll have a case. 2013-2018 was much more of a treadmill.

[mdenny]

"No hope" like we aren't still rebuilding, retooling or whatever term you want to go with.

Treadmilling is the term I want to go with because it’s the only accurate depiction of what the front office is doing with this roster right now.

I’ll take the superstar and actually have a chance at contending some time again in my lifetime, thanks.

Team has their lottery pick. They are in a good position to add a good young talent to the roster.

Treadmill teams are defined as teams that are stuck in the middle with an aging, expensive core. Not for young teams in line to get a good draft pick.

I’d easily make an offer for Giannis. But if you’ve been following basketball the past few years, these trades have not had a high success rate. You need depth to win and trading all of your depth to get a player like Giannis could leave you with too many holes to fill. He’s also on the wrong side of 30 and relies on heavily on athleticism.

The one thing I'd suggest about giannis and aging is that he IS a genetic freak of sorts. Kinda like lebron. He also has one of those crazy disciplined lifestyles. I could see giannis' athleticism lasting far longer than the average player. I could see him continue to be a top 10 player for another 5 seasons easily. He's currently top 5 and he'll probably stay that way for 2 or 3 more seasons.

If the Raps hit on this draft pick they will have 6 quality starters. So 2 of them plus a prospect (one of gradey/walter/agbaji) plus picks/swaps would still leave us with depth. Almost certainly scottty plus another guy.

Suppose our pick is a point guard who plays amazing the first half of the season. Then Scottie + iq could be the package plus picks. Suppose we hit it out the park with a front court pick.....then maybe scotty + RJ + prospect + picks.

We could definitely be outbid by Houston and OKC if it got down to it. So we would need them to pass. But we'd probably be amongst the top 5 teams in the running.

[mtcan]

You can be a treadmill team in the lottery. You can also be a treadmill team in the playoffs.

Treadmill is a bit of a catch-all, but I take it to mean going nowhere. By that definition, I would call this a treadmill team. Yeah, the team is young and should improve, but the ceiling still looks pretty low.

Some lottery luck would help, but otherwise, we're going to need a move like this to be relevant again.

I understand if people think we'd get outbid. We probably would. Our asset base isn't that deep. However, I don't really understand the people who think we shouldn't try, or fiercely disagree with the hypothetical. Ironically, I'd understand if fans OKC and Houston, two of the teams who could easily outbid us, would prefer to see how things go with their young cores, but what exactly are we hanging on to that we would pass up a chance at Giannis?

Despite not being high on the present or future roster, make no mistake, any halfway reasonable trade would leave us in a much better situation than Milwaukee. It's not going to end well there. They have an old team and no picks - they can't even bottom out and rebuild. They're likely to make some kind of rebuild-on-the-fly move rather than a total teardown. It's not going to work, but that's pretty much the only option they have.

You can't make up your own definition of treadmill. It is what it sounds like, staying in the same place. Given that our win total has been in significant fluctuation over the last 5 years and the team has been changing directions - it is not a treadmill. If we win around 30 games next season you'll have a case. 2013-2018 was much more of a treadmill.

A treadmill team is a team that his hit its ceiling for success (either misses or fails to advance in the playoffs) for a few years in a row...IMO.

There are lottery treadmill teams like Charlotte and New Orleans. There are play-in/playoff treadmills like Atlanta and Chicago.

We did hit a ceiling with FVV/Pascal/OG as a core...so that was a treadmill for a few years. But then we traded them last season and retooled...so we are not now a treadmill nor will we be even by end of next season.

I hate how the term treadmill gets thrown around here.

[LoveMyRaps]

You can be a treadmill team in the lottery. You can also be a treadmill team in the playoffs.

Treadmill is a bit of a catch-all, but I take it to mean going nowhere. By that definition, I would call this a treadmill team. Yeah, the team is young and should improve, but the ceiling still looks pretty low.

Some lottery luck would help, but otherwise, we're going to need a move like this to be relevant again.

I understand if people think we'd get outbid. We probably would. Our asset base isn't that deep. However, I don't really understand the people who think we shouldn't try, or fiercely disagree with the hypothetical. Ironically, I'd understand if fans OKC and Houston, two of the teams who could easily outbid us, would prefer to see how things go with their young cores, but what exactly are we hanging on to that we would pass up a chance at Giannis?

Despite not being high on the present or future roster, make no mistake, any halfway reasonable trade would leave us in a much better situation than Milwaukee. It's not going to end well there. They have an old team and no picks - they can't even bottom out and rebuild. They're likely to make some kind of rebuild-on-the-fly move rather than a total teardown. It's not going to work, but that's pretty much the only option they have.

You can't make up your own definition of treadmill. It is what it sounds like, staying in the same place. Given that our win total has been in significant fluctuation over the last 5 years and the team has been changing directions - it is not a treadmill. If we win around 30 games next season you'll have a case. 2013-2018 was much more of a treadmill.

Spot on.

[sidsid]

Giannis will not be comparing his new team to a broken Dame with Kuzma as a sidekick. He'll be comparing it to his chip team and the promise of a healthy Dame.

Playing with BI and what is currently perceived as a bad contract in IQ Isn't going to be a winner. He'll just veto it. He's 30 yo and wants another chip.

Now had we traded Fred/Norm/Lowry for future picks when we drafted Barnes and tanked for a few years with Siakam/OG while taking on bad contracts for more futures, we'd be turning the corner with a war chest of assets and a solid basis to make a trade like this right around now.

The quick fix road we took means we're in the BI/Zion/Embiid level of guys who are attainable. High risk/reward gambles that few teams with a better asset base will touch (and players who don't, or may no longer have the clout to dictate destination).

[PushDaRock]

I'd say the most natural fit that suits both Giannis and the Bucks is probably the Rockets. If he's willing to go there, that's probably where he ends up barring OKC getting involved.

[ChaiSudle]

The wildcard in this debate is Giannis himself - he had a championship PG and then pushed his FO to go out and get Dame, who had never won anything. Hoop heads knew at the time that Jrue was a better PG, but Giannis wanted Dame. So Giannis might have some random, bad idea of where he thinks he can win. I'm in the skeptical camp though - I don't think Giannis makes sense for the Raptors because the price would be too high. I'd like to see the Raps keep their picks and keep growing, while keeping a medium term eye on SGA's availability in a few years.

[Scizzup]

The wildcard in this debate is Giannis himself - he had a championship PG and then pushed his FO to go out and get Dame, who had never won anything. Hoop heads knew at the time that Jrue was a better PG, but Giannis wanted Dame. So Giannis might have some random, bad idea of where he thinks he can win. I'm in the skeptical camp though - I don't think Giannis makes sense for the Raptors because the price would be too high. I'd like to see the Raps keep their picks and keep growing, while keeping a medium term eye on SGA's availability in a few years.

That version of the Bucks took its course. I wouldn't say trading for Dame was great but it wasn't bad either. jrue was a worse player, same with Khris. Bucks were already a suspect offense in the playoffs when they won and those 2 got worse/injured. I don't know if getting Giannis makes sense because even if you can get him you won't be able to put a team good enough around him with remaining assets. As we see in the new nba superstars needs support more than ever, the 3 point/shooting variance has made mid teams more competitive.

SGA is never going to be available especially for Raptors with how the league operates now. Only way is if he hasn't won a ring by 33 (when his next contract expires).

[raps95]

I’m not saying that we can’t be outbid by somebody but I would say that we won’t lose out because we don’t have enough attractive assets. Is our mix not exactly perfect for what the bucks are looking for compared to some other teams? Sure it’s possible. If they just want a mountain of picks, say, we won’t be able to beat the Thunder and whatever other team it is that’s stockpiled a bunch that I’m gapping on right now. And we might not have the highest end young, cheap talent compared to some others but I really feel we have enough good quality salary, quality cheap youth, and good draft assets that we should at least be able to have a puncher’s chance with anybody.

Salary matching
Can’t do the trade without a whole lot of money going back, so some mix of Scottie, Brandon, RJ, IQ, and Jakob would be required and they are all useful players. Maybe you could say IQ is slightly overpaid but he’s still good and with the cap going up his contract will get better as the years go by. No, none of them are stars on the level of Devin Booker or Donovan Mitchell (though I think Scottie and BI have a chance to be) but I don’t think a team with that level of star is going to be giving them up in a trade like this. So, I think we can be competitive with anybody in the league on this front. Now, if the bucks want nothing but expiring or close to expiring money then I will acknowledge we are at a bit of a deficit.

Young assets
Gradey, Jakobe, Jamal, Ochai, Mogbo should all have some degree of attractiveness. They aren’t the cream of the crop like a Paolo, Jalen, or Chet but we could go for quantity over quality in the pitch. Also, I think if the bucks got a player like one of those three they would have to cut back on their ask in the other areas so we could try to make up for a deficit here by beefing up one of the other areas.

Draft picks
We have all of our picks so we can be as flexible as anybody in this area. If we get Giannis added to this team I will give you that the value of our picks will go down because we should be pretty good but we do have the ace in the hole of this year’s pick. Assuming we don’t drop to ten or something we can offer up a high pick in a highly touted draft year. That’s something few other teams would be able to do since everybody else will be selling hope about future poor performance for their team and then lottery luck as well. Only six other teams could offer something better and of those I don’t think Giannis would want to go to any of them except the Sixers.

So, when you combine all three of those areas I think we can make a pretty compelling offer. Will it be the highest? Who knows, but I don’t think it won’t happen because other teams were able to put together A to A+ offers and we couldn’t get above a b- or something.

[JB7]

Warriors makes sense for him. Don't think money works though.

make sense for giannis but not bucks

bucks most logical choice is okc

GSW could separate it into 2 deals.

1st 4 team trade: Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Rockets send at least one of the Suns picks back to the Suns.
2nd trade: Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW, for Kuzma.

Bucks end up with Green, Jabari, Kuminga, Pods and GSW picks

[sidsid]

I'd say the most natural fit that suits both Giannis and the Bucks is probably the Rockets. If he's willing to go there, that's probably where he ends up barring OKC getting involved.

The least likely in my opinion. The most consistent and area with the most growth is in their defensive youth. Their offensive guys, outside of Sengun (who likes to spend his time in Giannis spots), are either raw, wild cards or showing bust. They're tailor made to get star gunners (the Booker/KDs) in those spots and relying on the defensive youth to do the dirty work.