2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[God Squad]

We really wasting breath on Danny Wolf at 9? If he's there in the second, cool.

[God Squad]

These scrimmages are awful lol. But I'll admit Pettiford is doing pretty good. But his defense has still been suspect.

[Psubs]

The (really) long boi's with 2025 stats.


C Coward, 6'5.25 height w/o shoes, 7'2.25 wingspan, 8'10 standing reach, 213 lbs, 21.7 years old, G/F
33.0 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7.0 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.7 BLK, 0.8 STL, .557 FG (10.2 ATT), .400 3PT (5.0 ATT), .839 FT (5.2 ATT), .700 TS, 9.3 BPM, 22.1 USG

Y Lendeborg, 6'8.5 height w/o shoes, 7'4 wingspan, 9.0'5 standing reach, 234.6 lbs, 22.7 years old, F
33.6 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 11.4 REB, 4.2 AST, 1.8 BLK, 1.7 STL, .522 FG(12.3 ATT), .357 3PT(1.9 ATT), .757 FT(5.5 ATT), .592 TS, 11.2 BPM,23.9 USG

R Fleming, 6'8.25 height w/o shoes, 7'5.25 wingspan, 9'1.5 standing reach, 232.4 lbs, 20.9 years old, F/C
31.3 MIN, 14.7 PPG, 8.5 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.5 BLK, 1.4 STL, .531 FG (10.1 ATT), .390 3PT (4.5 ATT), .743 FT (2.9 ATT), .638 TS, 7.7 BPM, 21.2 USG

Is Coward like and older Coulibaly?

[nowayguy]

If anyone wants to be an optimist, here are the player types that have been major steals in the Raptors draft range over the past ten years:

Guards with good size (6'5 or 6'6 in shoes) and indicators they'll be shooters at the NBA level:
- Devin Booker (13th overall)
- Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (11th overall)
- Tyler Herro (13th overall)
- Tyrese Haliburton (12th overall)
- Jalen Williams (12th overall)

Big men with strong overall production/statistics and questions about their jump shot:
- Domanatas Sabonis (11th overall)
- Alperen Sengun (16th overall)

Elite athletes at their position:
- Bam Adebayo (14th overall)
- Donovan Mitchell (13th overall)

---

The commonality, as obvious as it might seem, is that they're all comfortable making plays with the ball in their hands. Prior to the draft, I would argue Adebayo and Booker didn't show many of these flashes in college. However, it was pretty clear Year 1 that Booker and Adebayo were capable in this area, so teams could have potentially figured this out during private workouts. This box would have been checked for the other players ahead of the draft.

---

Who meets one of these profiles and will potentially be there when the Raptors pick?

Pre-injury Jakucionis - This is a tough one because we don't really know how much was the injury versus teams figuring him out. His shot diet is weird (lots of step back threes) so there's a possibility he could have been closer to 40% from 3 with better shot selection. The free throw percentage and 3 volume are good. Lots of turnovers but he's made his fair share of plays as a ballhandler. Consistent chatter that his athleticism will hold him back, which we heard about SGA and Booker in their draft years.

Derik Queen - The production is strong, even if he's 20, but maybe not enough to overcome the issues he'll face at the next level. His athleticism and size are big question marks, bigger then Sengun who slid to 16 and Sengun's draft year was light years better. He's very comfortable with the ball in his hands so he checks that box. Probably needs to be a better shooter at the next level to make his game work but the form is kind of poo poo right now and will hurt his ability to hits threes consistently at the next level.

Collin-Murray Boyles - Similar situation to Queen. Strong production and statistics but he's not tall enough to be a regular center in the NBA. It would be a miracle if he becomes a league-average jump shooter and he probably needs to be if we're projecting him to be a future star. I personally hesitated putting him on the list because I'm not sure he's a big man at the next level but there's a lot to like in terms of the production.

Noa Essengue (???) - I don't know if he's quite an elite athlete or has the ball handling chops but I suspect this could be figured out in private workouts. He's a positive assist to turnover guy in a men's league and has some impressive length.

[niQ]

These scrimmages are awful lol. But I'll admit Pettiford is doing pretty good. But his defense has still been suspect.

How's Yang doing?

[BoyzNTheHood]

These scrimmages are awful lol. But I'll admit Pettiford is doing pretty good. But his defense has still been suspect.

How's Yang doing?

Bigs are barely touching the ball. Yang wasn’t too noticeable. If I wasn’t looking for him I wouldn’t take a second look.

[OakleyDokely]

The (really) long boi's with 2025 stats.


C Coward, 6'5.25 height w/o shoes, 7'2.25 wingspan, 8'10 standing reach, 213 lbs, 21.7 years old, G/F
33.0 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7.0 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.7 BLK, 0.8 STL, .557 FG (10.2 ATT), .400 3PT (5.0 ATT), .839 FT (5.2 ATT), .700 TS, 9.3 BPM, 22.1 USG

Y Lendeborg, 6'8.5 height w/o shoes, 7'4 wingspan, 9.0'5 standing reach, 234.6 lbs, 22.7 years old, F
33.6 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 11.4 REB, 4.2 AST, 1.8 BLK, 1.7 STL, .522 FG(12.3 ATT), .357 3PT(1.9 ATT), .757 FT(5.5 ATT), .592 TS, 11.2 BPM,23.9 USG

R Fleming, 6'8.25 height w/o shoes, 7'5.25 wingspan, 9'1.5 standing reach, 232.4 lbs, 20.9 years old, F/C
31.3 MIN, 14.7 PPG, 8.5 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.5 BLK, 1.4 STL, .531 FG (10.1 ATT), .390 3PT (4.5 ATT), .743 FT (2.9 ATT), .638 TS, 7.7 BPM, 21.2 USG

Is Coward like and older Coulibaly?

He appears to be more fluid than Coulibaly and a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hands.

[HolyMage110]

Just watching more Carter Bryant tape and man he oozes a lot of potential. Would love to see the raptors somehow getting him

[ciueli]

How, all fair options, all fit a need, those are pretty rational from a fanbase perspective actually lol

Yea, I'd say it's fairly similar to a poll (albeit with less options) we had on realgm.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2448667

Masai always goes against the grain. It won't be who fans want.

Masai's draft history to 2023:

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/masai-ujiri-complete-nba-draft-trade-history-raptors/ztucupkdc1iayfdvoszg7bwo

Add Gradey and Ja'Kobe since then and he has 11 first round picks total to his credit.

Looking at those, Masai very clearly has a type, that's players with size and really long arms. Kenneth Faried, Bruno Caboclo, Delon Wright, Jakob Poeltl, Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby, and Scottie Barnes all fit this type and these are some of the biggest successes that Masai has had in the draft with the exception of Bruno. It's a draft strategy that has rarely failed him in the first round.

Looking at the remaining first round picks (Evan Fournier, Malachi Flynn, Gradey Dick, Ja'Kobe Walter) we see that 3 out of the 4 players who didn't fit Masai's fantastic physicals profile had 3 point shooting as a major strength (Fournier, Flynn, and Dick). The lesson here is that when a fantastical physical specimen is not available in the range Masai is picking, he will usually pivot to a player who is a shooter or shows strong potential to be a top level shooter at the next level, it's even arguable Ja'Kobe Walter could be viewed this way even though he only shot 34.1% from 3 in college he was attempting 6.3 3s per game which indicates he would stand a good chance to develop into a shooter at the next level.

So the idea that Masai always "goes against the grain" doesn't seem to be accurate, it's fairly bankable that he will draft a player with great physicals as he's very much a wingspan = success type drafter, barring that he will look to players who are shooters but still with good size who should have been drafted higher but weren't, the only first round pick where Masai drafted an undersized player in the first round was one of his few missteps (Malachi Flynn).

If Khaman Maluach is off board (the obvious physicals pick at 9), look for Masai to pivot to a player who still has good size for his position but is undervalued, the obvious choice here would be Kasparas Jakucionis who has fallen a bit in projections due to injuries, but it's also possible he could look to a player like Carter Bryant as a 3+D wing even though he is projected to go later. Obviously Kon Knueppel also fits the secondary profile if he drops to 9, it would be a similar pick to Gradey Dick.

[Yallbecrazy]

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?t=KjiIh8nVg1nBo41AdnTHSQ&s=19

CMB is probably the one I'm most wary of drafting. "They're just everything I feel like I can fit into." Fit into where? We have Barnes and Mogbo...

Agreed but he's gotta say that right? He's still trying to get drafted at the end of the day.

But yeah, I've never liked CMB. Unless there's something I'm not seeing with him, he projects to be a tweener that's too small to play full time C but doesn't shoot well enough to play on the perimeter.

I'm thinking Kidd-Gilchrist ish and we saw how that worked out.

Super hard pass for me.

MKG had a 7.7 BPM while on an undefeated national championship team, just barely above Doron Lamb for 3rd on the team.
CMB's bpm is 11.9 and the next closest on the team was 4.1. He also played against much better players as the SEC was much weaker back then and not the single greatest conference in college basketball history.

2.5 stocks per 40 vs 3.7.

A worse assist to turnover ratio despite not being the focal point and being able to pass to AD for free assists.
There are so many indicators that CMB is going to be a star and fits perfectly in our system. The only worry is if he goes before #9.

Comparing MKG to CMB is just lazy and bad evaluating.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Just watching more Carter Bryant tape and man he oozes a lot of potential. Would love to see the raptors somehow getting him

Zona parking him in the corner and asking him to defend the oppositions best player, while simultaneously allowing Caleb Love to go full 2007 Kobe (by FGA only) should’ve been investigated. No wonder Carter said he’s all in for the draft. I wouldn’t take a second thought about returning to that dumpster fire either.

[islandboy53]

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[OakleyDokely]

If I had to guess right now, I think Carter Bryant or Essengue will be the pick.

[Yallbecrazy]

CMB is probably the one I'm most wary of drafting. "They're just everything I feel like I can fit into." Fit into where? We have Barnes and Mogbo...

He can play 20-25 minutes a game as a rookie, doubt anyone else we draft can do that. Poeltl plays 30 minutes, Scottie plays 36. That leaves 30 minutes at the 4/5 which he can fit into. He can't play with both, but can with one or the other. He is best in class in terms of providing rebounding which no one on our team can do and quick decision making that Darko's system requires.

I mean, isn't that why we have Mogbo though?

Do you like Mogbo? CMB put up better numbers in a real conference(not a mid major) and while being nearly three years younger. Comparing CMB to Mogbo is like comparing Gradey Dick to Ray Allen. They have similar styles, but one is significantly superior.

CMB can also create his own offense which Mogbo can't. I still get angry whenever someone ranks Queen over CMB, to me it defies logic. CMB is better at literally everything on the basketball court than Queen is and some things significantly so except for a tiny edge on free throw shooting to Queen.

[Johnston]

I sure hope not. There are will be high ceiling and high floor players available.

This is a fireable offense IMO.

??? lol how on earth can you say that's a fireable offense, no1 at 9 is a sure-fire stud, everyone has their pros n cons? What makes you Nostradamus here

I don't need to be.

I just need to know there are high ceiling and higher floor players available there.

Why would you say he's not a high ceiling player? Especially with how were we have developed players with the same archetype?

[mademan]

I think Bryant has more functional athleticism than Fleming but my goodness Fleming's measurements are insane. He might even be able to play some small ball 5 in the future

Fleming is just more useful for the Raptors right away and someone to put in at the end of games.

Walter - Agbaji - Mogbo - Scottie - Fleming SHUT DOWN DEFENSE!!!

I like Fleming a lot, but i see real potential offensively in Bryant that doesnt exist in Fleming. Fleming certainly has a higher floor though and i think is, at minimum, a starter or near starter level player while Bryant can certainly bust

[BoyzNTheHood]

I think Bryant has more functional athleticism than Fleming but my goodness Fleming's measurements are insane. He might even be able to play some small ball 5 in the future

Fleming is just more useful for the Raptors right away and someone to put in at the end of games.

Walter - Agbaji - Mogbo - Scottie - Fleming SHUT DOWN DEFENSE!!!

I like Fleming a lot, but i see real potential offensively in Bryant that doesnt exist in Fleming. Fleming certainly has a higher floor though and i think is, at minimum, a starter or near starter level player while Bryant can certainly bust

I’m good with either guy, but I’d be sad that we pass on whoever we pass on. If that makes sense…

[WuTang_CMB]

One thing's for sure - Raps are drafting a player with great length for their position. It's either going to be Jak, KM, CB, Fleming, Noa

[mademan]

Fleming is just more useful for the Raptors right away and someone to put in at the end of games.

Walter - Agbaji - Mogbo - Scottie - Fleming SHUT DOWN DEFENSE!!!

I like Fleming a lot, but i see real potential offensively in Bryant that doesnt exist in Fleming. Fleming certainly has a higher floor though and i think is, at minimum, a starter or near starter level player while Bryant can certainly bust

I’m good with either guy, but I’d be sad that we pass on whoever we pass on. If that makes sense…

For sure. Im a big fan of Traore. Im gonna be pretty upset if we pass him up, but i'd be upset to lose Bryant. But i also wouldnt mind getting Fleming.

[Mark_83]

Yang is a really interesting talent. He's got the size and the skill. I'm also impressed by the fact he can hold the basketball like a grapefruit. Those are huge hands, and they definitely give him an advantage.

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