Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[Raps in 4]

Absolutely cooked if we’re giving up the 9th pick for Durant.

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcasm along with 11 people sarcastically liking it.

I have made a few threads regarding the insanity of pick valuation.

So I demand that someone tells me what they think is a reasonable outcome from a 9th selection in a draft.

By "reasonable outcome" please name a current player that has been in the league for at least 6 years....that you think would represent the average outcome from the 9th selection in a draft.

Here's a hint: Jacob poetl is a player that represents a HIGHER quality outcome than the average 9th overall selection.

I can prove it to everyone but I've already done it multiple times.

It's a rather simple exercise. Take the 9th overall picks from 2010 to 2020 and take the 5th best player. Then tell me we are "cooked" for trading that player for Durant.

At some point in time....the video game and fantasy league ppl should have a seperate board from the basketball people.

Durant is 37 years old. He tore his Achilles a few years ago. At best, you're getting a top-20 player for a year. It's beyond idiotic to trade a top-10 pick for that kind of short-term production.

[SFour]

I don't see how giving up 2 starters plus the 9th pick makes sense for a 37 year old KD that doesn't even want to play here...I don't see it happening.

Once you give up Poeltl and the 9th pick Raptors will have no starting or backup center....it will be a nightmare. Even if they're receiving a center back in the trade they won't be anything special, probably backup worthy at best.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Absolutely cooked if we’re giving up the 9th pick for Durant.

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcasm along with 11 people sarcastically liking it.

I have made a few threads regarding the insanity of pick valuation.

So I demand that someone tells me what they think is a reasonable outcome from a 9th selection in a draft.

By "reasonable outcome" please name a current player that has been in the league for at least 6 years....that you think would represent the average outcome from the 9th selection in a draft.

Here's a hint: Jacob poetl is a player that represents a HIGHER quality outcome than the average 9th overall selection.

I can prove it to everyone but I've already done it multiple times.

It's a rather simple exercise. Take the 9th overall picks from 2010 to 2020 and take the 5th best player. Then tell me we are "cooked" for trading that player for Durant.

At some point in time....the video game and fantasy league ppl should have a seperate board from the basketball people.

It's one year of an old Kevin Durant. Players fall off the cliff dramatically around this age, so yeah, dumb move. We're also a 30 win team giving up multiple rotation players for Kevin Durant. The #9 pick may not be that valuable. but it's the wrong move at the wrong time for the wrong person. He doesn't want to be here, and hasn't been relevant as a winner since he left Golden State.

[S.W.A.N]

That's what it looks like but their desire is seemingly real. Maybe they think that 9+Yak+RJ/IQ for KD+29 is worth the one year rental and headache of an unhappy KD

Yup. Teams know our history and can't pretend we won't pull the trigger on a potential rental.

I'm a little queasy at the package required to get Durant...Which probably means its a fair trade.

But I honestly think this won't matter Miami will buckle and put Ware in the deal. They need this trade. And Houston holds all the cards they can make a deal any time they want.

That all said. I'm looking at free agent centers. Do we want Clint Capela or Luke Kornet??

Of those two, Kornet. But I think Kornet will have a somewhat robust market even though he'd be a pretty low-end starting C and Capela is probably best as a reserve at this point

Either way that team ain't competing for anything, so it again begs the question, why throw all your eggs into this basket? I guess it makes sense from a commercial aspect but if you're doing moves just to sell a bunch of jerseys without consideration for on-court value, you've become the 2000s Knicks

I think we have enough assets to make a secondary move for another big. Dick or Ochai should get you a decent big man.

Even if we just got one decent level starting C and had Scottie, Boucher, Rookie doing the backup minutes it would be a championship level team on paper.

Quickley Shead
Ingram Walter (one of Dick or Ochai)
Durant Battle
Scottie Mogbo Boucher
Claxon/Capela or Mark Williams/Day-ron Sharpe etc etc.

I would have to believe that if you make the Durant move you've already made calls to see what you can get to fill out the roster. But you'd have a 3 year window (assuming health isn't a factor) where you have a legit championship window.


Not saying we should do it, but I can see a path.

[ArthurVandelay]

PHX: RJ, Poeltl, #9
Heat: KD, #39, #52
Raptors: Wiggins, Slo-Mo, Ware, Jovic, #20, #29

I think I'd do that. Wiggins fits the roster better than Wiggins. Raptors in a better cap situation. 3 years of Ware on a rookie deal. Jovic is extension eligible and can shoot. Can continue to add depth with 20 and 29.

I think PHX does it. I doubt Heat do.

This might be the worst trade I've ever seen proposed on here.

The bad part is 9 + 39 for 20 + 29

Wiggins > RJ

Poeltl = Ware + Jovic

These are the types of returns we’d get on these guys. I’d be surprised if we could trade Wiggins for RJ straight up. Wiggins 3+D ability is probably in higher demand than RJ. Ware (15th pick) and Jovic (young guy with some upside) seems about right for a solid starting C. When we traded for Poeltl we were probably expecting to give up the 15th overall pick pick + flotsam (Birch).

Remove 39 from this trade and this deal isn’t that far off.

What about….

Raptors: Rozier, SLO-Mo, Ware, Jovic, #29
Heat: KD, #39, #52
Phoenix: RJ, Poeltl, #20


Rozier and SLO-Mo are trash contracts and both expiring. Miami going to need someone to guard perimeter but also have a big contract on hand on Wiggins for the next name to become available. I keep sending the 2nds to Miami because they are good at drafting and they will need cheap contracts to round out roster under apron(s).

Rozier becomes the new Dragic-Brown contract to be traded or bought out.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Raps' name is being used as leverage. As soon as Dame said no to Toronto, the Raps backed off right away. Suns can say they will deal him to whomever offers the best package, but that is not true at all. Durant scuttled the deal at the deadline to GS and will go to a desired destination. Suns just don't like the current offers and want them improved.

Look at Durant's desired list. It's obvious what he wants.

Kawhi didn’t want to go to the Raptors either. It didn’t cause them to back off.

Much different circumstances. Spurs were not even on speaking terms with him and had an internal edict to trade him anywhere but the Lakers. Kawhi also had no leverage due to an injury plagued season.

Durant is one of the greatest of all time. You don't trade him to where he doesn't want to go, and no team should trade for a disgruntled Durant. Let's also not forget this is the 2nd time in 2 years that he asks out. The minute the season has any semblance of going south, he's asking out.

And this is not me saying I wouldn't do it. I just remember after the Dame situation, Grange made a casual comment that the team was going to start chasing players who want to be in Toronto. He's mostly a clown, but he DOES get fed some information, and that comment was not his opinion.

We never backed off Dame. Bobby Webster said we offered the most we've ever offered for a player, but they had no idea that Portland was negotiating with Milwaukee.

[Clutch0z24]

Reading through this thread and seeing some of these offers some of you guys want is scary. I REALLY dont think theyd give up the 9th pick for a 37 year old Durant on the final year of his deal without getting something significant back. When we traded for Kawhi it was high rish high reward, this isnt a high reward and the price wed pay is even higher, it doesnt make sense.

Im not ruling out the possibility of trading 9 but we absolutely would ne getting something significant in return, KD aint it. Like always, we are being used as leverage, we offer a unique aspect when it comes to that. Americans dont typically want to leave the US so threatening them with Canada changes minds quickly, get used to it

I don't think anyone really in this thread is pro trade....But i think we are all just speculating on the trade package because from all reports it sounds like Masai is actually really interested in this and wants to get it done....And the report from guys in the know about us wanting to move IQ/RJ/Yak +9 is also involved....We are just speculating on what we are offering for KD...

If it were up to majority here Raptors would keep everything and go into next season as is with the draft picks....But we are not in control of the team Masai is and i think Masai is making offers around the league and the 9th pick is obviously our most attractive asset outside of Barnes....

[Brinbe]

Yup. Teams know our history and can't pretend we won't pull the trigger on a potential rental.

I'm a little queasy at the package required to get Durant...Which probably means its a fair trade.

But I honestly think this won't matter Miami will buckle and put Ware in the deal. They need this trade. And Houston holds all the cards they can make a deal any time they want.

That all said. I'm looking at free agent centers. Do we want Clint Capela or Luke Kornet??

Of those two, Kornet. But I think Kornet will have a somewhat robust market even though he'd be a pretty low-end starting C and Capela is probably best as a reserve at this point

Either way that team ain't competing for anything, so it again begs the question, why throw all your eggs into this basket? I guess it makes sense from a commercial aspect but if you're doing moves just to sell a bunch of jerseys without consideration for on-court value, you've become the 2000s Knicks

I think we have enough assets to make a secondary move for another big. Dick or Ochai should get you a decent big man.

Even if we just got one decent level starting C and had Scottie, Boucher, Rookie doing the backup minutes it would be a championship level team on paper.

Quickley Shead
Ingram Walter (one of Dick or Ochai)
Durant Battle
Scottie Mogbo Boucher
Claxon/Capela or Mark Williams/Day-ron Sharpe etc etc.

I would have to believe that if you make the Durant move you've already made calls to see what you can get to fill out the roster. But you'd have a 3 year window (assuming health isn't a factor) where you have a legit championship window.


Not saying we should do it, but I can see a path.

Yeah, I don't see it. An even deeper hole you're digging out of if it's IQ instead of RJ being included.

And I'm sure there would be follow-up moves but you're still trying to create a win-now contending team out of nowhere. And even that team you listed isn't competing with the best in the league, especially if you expect IQ to be your lead guard and expect him to hold up on the defensive end. And those bigs offer no long-range threat at all. It's a limited team. Maybe they win a single playoff round, if that.

[WuTang_CMB]

Houston doesn't have a centre to offer PHX and don't want to give up 27+29.
This would have been in the bag for HOU if they put #27 from PHX on the table .. along with #10 ... but they know PHX will implode by then so its tricky.

Houston has Phoenix’s No. 10 overall pick in this draft class and control of the Suns’ top selection in 2027 and 2029. Gathering some of those draft assets back in return for Durant would greatly appeal to Phoenix, league sources told HoopsHype.

Toronto has a decent package on the table with combo of IQ, Poeltl, RJ, #9

[Jadoogar]

Absolutely cooked if we’re giving up the 9th pick for Durant.

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcasm along with 11 people sarcastically liking it.

I have made a few threads regarding the insanity of pick valuation.

So I demand that someone tells me what they think is a reasonable outcome from a 9th selection in a draft.

By "reasonable outcome" please name a current player that has been in the league for at least 6 years....that you think would represent the average outcome from the 9th selection in a draft.

Here's a hint: Jacob poetl is a player that represents a HIGHER quality outcome than the average 9th overall selection.

I can prove it to everyone but I've already done it multiple times.

It's a rather simple exercise. Take the 9th overall picks from 2010 to 2020 and take the 5th best player. Then tell me we are "cooked" for trading that player for Durant.

At some point in time....the video game and fantasy league ppl should have a seperate board from the basketball people.

Durant is 37 years old. He tore his Achilles a few years ago. At best, you're getting a top-20 player for a year. It's beyond idiotic to trade a top-10 pick for that kind of short-term production.

People dramatically overrate draft picks, especially non-top 5 picks.
The most recent #9 picks: Edey (decent starter max), Taylor Hendricks (bust), Sochan (bench player), Davion Mitchell (bench player), Avidja (good starter), Rui Hachimura (decent rotation player), Kevin Knox (bust), Dennis Smith Jr (bust), Poeltl (good starters).

So out of the last 9, there's been 2 good starters and 0 allstars. I'm not even advocating for KD but even 1 year of KD is better than a full career of Davion Mitchell.

[MiamiSPX]

Kawhi didn’t want to go to the Raptors either. It didn’t cause them to back off.

Much different circumstances. Spurs were not even on speaking terms with him and had an internal edict to trade him anywhere but the Lakers. Kawhi also had no leverage due to an injury plagued season.

Durant is one of the greatest of all time. You don't trade him to where he doesn't want to go, and no team should trade for a disgruntled Durant. Let's also not forget this is the 2nd time in 2 years that he asks out. The minute the season has any semblance of going south, he's asking out.

And this is not me saying I wouldn't do it. I just remember after the Dame situation, Grange made a casual comment that the team was going to start chasing players who want to be in Toronto. He's mostly a clown, but he DOES get fed some information, and that comment was not his opinion.

We never backed off Dame. Bobby Webster said we offered the most we've ever offered for a player, but they had no idea that Portland was negotiating with Milwaukee.

I remember Bobby saying that, but I recall Grange and Lewenberg portraying it as we backed off once Dame was adamant about not going to Toronto. I won't swear by that one though, so I will defer to your recollection here. Kind of makes it worse then, IMO. They need to stop chasing guys that make it clear they want no part of the Raps.

[Yeezus_]

You guys are acting like acquiring KD means there won’t be other roster moves to win now.

[MiamiSPX]

Houston doesn't have a centre to offer PHX and don't want to give up 27+29.
This would have been in the bag for HOU if they put #27 from PHX on the table .. along with #10 ... but they know PHX will implode by then so its tricky.

Houston has Phoenix’s No. 10 overall pick in this draft class and control of the Suns’ top selection in 2027 and 2029. Gathering some of those draft assets back in return for Durant would greatly appeal to Phoenix, league sources told HoopsHype.

Toronto has a decent package on the table with combo of IQ, Poeltl, RJ, #9

For cap reasons, I think we need to move off one of IQ or RJ pretty soon. But man, after seeing his desired list, it's pretty obvious what he wants and they are things that a player can never get in Toronto (in fact it's the polar opposite, no pun intended).

[Yeezus_]

Absolutely cooked if we’re giving up the 9th pick for Durant.

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcasm along with 11 people sarcastically liking it.

I have made a few threads regarding the insanity of pick valuation.

So I demand that someone tells me what they think is a reasonable outcome from a 9th selection in a draft.

By "reasonable outcome" please name a current player that has been in the league for at least 6 years....that you think would represent the average outcome from the 9th selection in a draft.

Here's a hint: Jacob poetl is a player that represents a HIGHER quality outcome than the average 9th overall selection.

I can prove it to everyone but I've already done it multiple times.

It's a rather simple exercise. Take the 9th overall picks from 2010 to 2020 and take the 5th best player. Then tell me we are "cooked" for trading that player for Durant.

At some point in time....the video game and fantasy league ppl should have a seperate board from the basketball people.

People love draft picks and prospects until they don’t become their high end outcome that was already unlikely.

[bballsparkin]

People dramatically overrate draft picks, especially non-top 5 picks.
The most recent #9 picks: Edey (decent starter max), Taylor Hendricks (bust), Sochan (bench player), Davion Mitchell (bench player), Avidja (good starter), Rui Hachimura (decent rotation player), Kevin Knox (bust), Dennis Smith Jr (bust), Poeltl (good starters).

So out of the last 9, there's been 2 good starters and 0 allstars. I'm not even advocating for KD but even 1 year of KD is better than a full career of Davion Mitchell.

The thing is it's not just #9. It's JP as well. The team doesn't even have a proper back up C. How do you fix that in order to field a competitive team around KD?

[S.W.A.N]

Of those two, Kornet. But I think Kornet will have a somewhat robust market even though he'd be a pretty low-end starting C and Capela is probably best as a reserve at this point

Either way that team ain't competing for anything, so it again begs the question, why throw all your eggs into this basket? I guess it makes sense from a commercial aspect but if you're doing moves just to sell a bunch of jerseys without consideration for on-court value, you've become the 2000s Knicks

I think we have enough assets to make a secondary move for another big. Dick or Ochai should get you a decent big man.

Even if we just got one decent level starting C and had Scottie, Boucher, Rookie doing the backup minutes it would be a championship level team on paper.

Quickley Shead
Ingram Walter (one of Dick or Ochai)
Durant Battle
Scottie Mogbo Boucher
Claxon/Capela or Mark Williams/Day-ron Sharpe etc etc.

I would have to believe that if you make the Durant move you've already made calls to see what you can get to fill out the roster. But you'd have a 3 year window (assuming health isn't a factor) where you have a legit championship window.


Not saying we should do it, but I can see a path.

Yeah, I don't see it. An even deeper hole you're digging out of if it's IQ instead of RJ being included.

And I'm sure there would be follow-up moves but you're still trying to create a win-now contending team out of nowhere. And even that team you listed isn't competing with the best in the league, especially if you expect IQ to be your lead guard and expect him to hold up on the defensive end. And those bigs offer no long-range threat at all. It's a limited team. Maybe they win a single playoff round, if that.

If you have Ingram and Durant and Scottie you aren't asking Quickley to do much offensively. He'll be off ball more than anything and that is a perfect role for him.


I still see your point of view. But the more I think about it the more I find interesting ways to make it work.

Like what if Scottie buys into playing C.
Quickley
Walter
Ingram
Durant
Scottie

Then you still have
Ochai
Shead
Battle
Boucher
Free Agent Center
Draft pick Center...

Man I hope Durant goes to Miami lol

[Zeno]

Not since rumours of the Jermaine O’Neal trade began to surface have I had such a feeling of impending doom…

[WuTang_CMB]

Houston doesn't have a centre to offer PHX and don't want to give up 27+29.
This would have been in the bag for HOU if they put #27 from PHX on the table .. along with #10 ... but they know PHX will implode by then so its tricky.

Houston has Phoenix’s No. 10 overall pick in this draft class and control of the Suns’ top selection in 2027 and 2029. Gathering some of those draft assets back in return for Durant would greatly appeal to Phoenix, league sources told HoopsHype.

Toronto has a decent package on the table with combo of IQ, Poeltl, RJ, #9

For cap reasons, I think we need to move off one of IQ or RJ pretty soon. But man, after seeing his desired list, it's pretty obvious what he wants and they are things that a player can never get in Toronto (in fact it's the polar opposite, no pun intended).

RJ is gone this off-season no matter what
they want to actually win lol

[James_Raptors]

I take every Raptor related click-bait rumor with 13 grains of salt.

[Asif16]

I just can't see IQ being included. The obvious package seems to be RJ + Poetl + 9 for Durant + 29.

We have depth in the SG position to off-set Barrett (Dick/Walter). Where as we dont have a legit PG behind IQ