Official RJ Barrett Thread

[Airmiess]

A lot of the discourse could be condensed if posters had the ability to understand nuance and not just look at every performance in a vacuum.

[mad-man]

RJ's TS% is up to 54.6, not too far off from league average for guards and wings now who range from 55.5-57% at those positions.

Volume scoring below league average isn't going to help us develop a high-end offense.

The assisted 2's are now up to 37.8% from 29% at one point while his efficiency has also gone up since. It's looking like he probably can be an efficient player when he has another creator out there to share the burden like Scottie. IQ coming back should only help him out.

When he is supported by others and not creating everything, that's our best look for him, yes. That's a big part of why he was so dramatically different last year versus previously in New York or to date this season. So it's something we should continue to support. More of RJ in the corner will be good, too. He's WELL below his average there in terms of proportion of his shots, and that isn't helping him at all.

How are you a mod of a basketball forum? You're a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) **** lol.

He was injured to start the year and was likely facing more focused defences without Scottie and IQ over that same stretch.

He's still young - what 24? lol. He's had stretches of performing like we're seeing right now. Let the kid breathe you animals

Personal Attack. Warned.

[tsherkin]

He was injured to start the year and was likely facing more focused defences without Scottie and IQ over that same stretch.

He's still young - what 24? lol. He's had stretches of performing like we're seeing right now. Let the kid breathe you animals

Read what I've written, not what you want to see.

I have been waiting for the team circumstance to get back to what it was last year so that we can see what RJ looks like with proper support around him. The passage you quoted was a positive, yet you've hit me with a personal attack and acted like I kicked your dog.

Try again, and do better.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If he's a better player playing off better guys, maybe Raps should acquire at least 1 more of these better guys?

They've got one injured right now. And the good news is RJ has played with that player for years.

[tsherkin]

If he's a better player playing off better guys, maybe Raps should acquire at least 1 more of these better guys?

They've got one injured right now. And the good news is RJ has played with that player for years.

Yeah, having Quick AND Scottie back at the same time has been something missing badly from this season, and not just for RJ. Then add Gradey on top of that? It does reinforce that we need to give Barrett some more time to understand his value on this particular squad. He seems to respond well when we're able to get him slashing off-ball more than directly attacking as POA ball-handler. And it neuters a bunch of his skill deficiencies, too.

[Scase]

He was injured to start the year and was likely facing more focused defences without Scottie and IQ over that same stretch.

He's still young - what 24? lol. He's had stretches of performing like we're seeing right now. Let the kid breathe you animals

Read what I've written, not what you want to see.

I have been waiting for the team circumstance to get back to what it was last year so that we can see what RJ looks like with proper support around him. The passage you quoted was a positive, yet you've hit me with a personal attack and acted like I kicked your dog.

Try again, and do better.

If RJ floats around 60% TS% with a proper lineup that's awesome, what concerns me is what happens when that full lineup isn't healthy. If you have 3 key players in your offence, 1 guy going down is rough, but if 1 guy going down also causes the other guy to start playing poorly, then that's a disproportionate impact to your team that is caused by overreliance on a flawed player.

If we want to be pie in the sky and look at Scottie/RJ as our Tatum/Brown, we can't overlook how one guy being missing crushes the other guys ability to perform. Tatum without Brown maintains the same efficiency (88 game sample size), Brown without Tatum actually increases his efficiency by about 3% TS (32 game sample size). RJ with Scottie is 61% TS% (30 games) but without him it's 55.8% (20 games).

The point of having 2 high level parts of your offence, is that they don't get worse when one is out, but rather you just suffer the loss of that one player. But without Scottie, you're suffering the loss of close to two players, this is the major limitation we run into. And this isn't even RJ specific, this is just any team offence. Injuries happen, and missing players will always impact things negatively, but that's got potential from being a really good team to a bad team just losing one guy. RJ is 11-19 with Scottie, and 5-15 without him, granted this doesn't take into account how injured the lineups were, and a bunch of other variables that are hard to isolate, but that's pretty huge.

We'll need more data on it for sure, but there's already signs that it's not a good result.

[tsherkin]

If RJ floats around 60% TS% with a proper lineup that's awesome, what concerns me is what happens when that full lineup isn't healthy. If you have 3 key players in your offence, 1 guy going down is rough, but if 1 guy going down also causes the other guy to start playing poorly, then that's a disproportionate impact to your team that is caused by overreliance on a flawed player.

I hear you. But we only have one of the interesting players back right now, and RJ seems to be responding. It could be coincidence, but the style changes and passing support and such increasing coinciding with his improved efficiency is at least intriguing to consider. I dunno that we want to throw a parade about it, but if we're looking for positive signs, then we should acknowledge them when they show. Just don't treat it like gospel, you know?

The point of having 2 high level parts of your offence, is that they don't get worse when one is out, but rather you just suffer the loss of that one player. But without Scottie, you're suffering the loss of close to two players, this is the major limitation we run into. And this isn't even RJ specific, this is just any team offence. Injuries happen, and missing players will always impact things negatively, but that's got potential from being a really good team to a bad team just losing one guy. RJ is 11-19 with Scottie, and 5-15 without him, granted this doesn't take into account how injured the lineups were, and a bunch of other variables that are hard to isolate, but that's pretty huge.

We'll need more data on it for sure, but there's already signs that it's not a good result.

I think it depends on what you expect from them. If you think they're going to provide contention-level offense, then it's a clear weakness which is a potential problem. If you're looking to establish/build value for a possible trade, or just to build a quality team that'll be in the playoffs perennially and contending to go deeper in the EC postseason, then it's far more workable.

So the specific angle of examination does matter some, IMHO.

[mad-man]

Personal Attack. Warned.[/quote]

I'm not sure what's softer. You're insights on basketball or your personal grit lol.

Take a joke.

[Scase]

I hear you. But we only have one of the interesting players back right now, and RJ seems to be responding. It could be coincidence, but the style changes and passing support and such increasing coinciding with his improved efficiency is at least intriguing to consider. I dunno that we want to throw a parade about it, but if we're looking for positive signs, then we should acknowledge them when they show. Just don't treat it like gospel, you know?

Yeah IQ being out still is an unknown quantity for how that's going to look, but I can't say the signs with Scottie back aren't promising.

I think it depends on what you expect from them. If you think they're going to provide contention-level offense, then it's a clear weakness which is a potential problem. If you're looking to establish/build value for a possible trade, or just to build a quality team that'll be in the playoffs perennially and contending to go deeper in the EC postseason, then it's far more workable.

So the specific angle of examination does matter some, IMHO.

This is the crux of my criticisms. A lot of people see him as some long term successful piece, and that's where I staunchly disagree due to the stuff I've laid out above and before. What I've always advocated for, was keeping him around until a really good offer shows up (this is where the DD comparison is apt), and you move him + others to upgrade into a better player. Concentrating assets is an important part of team building, especially for us as no one ever signs here.

I still see the BBQ combo as capping out at a 1st round team that occasionally makes it to the 2nd round, but is never a threat to make it to the ECF without extenuating circumstances like injuries (think Pacers last year). And for some people that's good enough, but the point is always to reach contender status. A chip isn't the be all end all, but being a team that constantly flames out in the 1st/2nd round (like the DD led Raps) isn't my definition of success.

Now a lot can change from now into another handful of years, who we draft, how other guys grow etc. But assuming for incremental improvements, I don't see the ceiling much higher than a team that makes the playoff but is never a threat to anything. The treadmill Hawks teams from the late 2000's to 2010's would be the worst possible outcome, because at least they made the ECF, and we don't have someone like Trae to carry the team.

[tsherkin]

This is the crux of my criticisms. A lot of people see him as some long term successful piece, and that's where I staunchly disagree due to the stuff I've laid out above and before. What I've always advocated for, was keeping him around until a really good offer shows up (this is where the DD comparison is apt), and you move him + others to upgrade into a better player. Concentrating assets is an important part of team building, especially for us as no one ever signs here.

I still see the BBQ combo as capping out at a 1st round team that occasionally makes it to the 2nd round, but is never a threat to make it to the ECF without extenuating circumstances like injuries (think Pacers last year). And for some people that's good enough, but the point is always to reach contender status. A chip isn't the be all end all, but being a team that constantly flames out in the 1st/2nd round (like the DD led Raps) isn't my definition of success.

TBF, the DD-led Raps made an ECFs and from 2014-18 when they were in the playoffs, ran into a decent Nets team in a 7-game series, a Wizards team which ROFLSTOMP'd us, the title Cavs, the Cavs again, and the Cavs.

So evaluating the squad on the basis of how they dealt with Lebron when he was still relatively young and athletic isn't the greatest way to approach it.

I think at this point, it's clear we don't have a superstar unless something magical happens with Scottie. So distributed offense is what we've got to work with until and unless something else comes along. So we may as well own that. We're in a developmental phase right now, but Quick, Scottie, RJ the way he looks with passing support and Gradey doesn't sound like a bad squad at all if we can find a bench (and there are some signs here for that too).

Regardless, let's say the objective is to move RJ. We still need to find a way to help him look good in the process, which means finding out the best context and strategy of deployment. So the way we move forward seems fairly similar either way, no?

[LastNameEver]

He’s already one of the better players in the franchise’s history, but fans seem to be grading him on an unreasonable scale. He’s among the league leaders in several categories, but his true shooting efficiency needs to catch up due to the overuse he experienced at the start of the season.

[PushDaRock]

This is the crux of my criticisms. A lot of people see him as some long term successful piece, and that's where I staunchly disagree due to the stuff I've laid out above and before. What I've always advocated for, was keeping him around until a really good offer shows up (this is where the DD comparison is apt), and you move him + others to upgrade into a better player. Concentrating assets is an important part of team building, especially for us as no one ever signs here.

I still see the BBQ combo as capping out at a 1st round team that occasionally makes it to the 2nd round, but is never a threat to make it to the ECF without extenuating circumstances like injuries (think Pacers last year). And for some people that's good enough, but the point is always to reach contender status. A chip isn't the be all end all, but being a team that constantly flames out in the 1st/2nd round (like the DD led Raps) isn't my definition of success.

TBF, the DD-led Raps made an ECFs and from 2014-18 when they were in the playoffs, ran into a decent Nets team in a 7-game series, a Wizards team which ROFLSTOMP'd us, the title Cavs, the Cavs again, and the Cavs.

So evaluating the squad on the basis of how they dealt with Lebron when he was still relatively young and athletic isn't the greatest way to approach it.

I think at this point, it's clear we don't have a superstar unless something magical happens with Scottie. So distributed offense is what we've got to work with until and unless something else comes along. So we may as well own that. We're in a developmental phase right now, but Quick, Scottie, RJ the way he looks with passing support and Gradey doesn't sound like a bad squad at all if we can find a bench (and there are some signs here for that too).

Regardless, let's say the objective is to move RJ. We still need to find a way to help him look good in the process, which means finding out the best context and strategy of deployment. So the way we move forward seems fairly similar either way, no?

That's why it's not even worth discussing, he's being treated as an important long term piece regardless in either scenario. If the right trade popped up, anyone is tradeable on this roster.

[tsherkin]

That's why it's not even worth discussing, he's being treated as an important long term piece regardless in either scenario. If the right trade popped up, anyone is tradeable on this roster.

Yeah, that's fair. I think ultimately we need to look at the present roster as what we've got and if some angel investor of a team wants to trade us a superstar, then there's that, and likewise for some other unforeseen but awesome deal.

But for now, these guys are here. So figuring out how to support them and best deploy them makes sense to me.

[MEDIC]

That's what is funny about some of these discussions. I don't see RJ being shipped out in the next 2 seasons, unless an unbelievable deal comes along to upgrade the team. While he is here, it is in the organizations best interest & the fans best interest for him to perform to the highest level possible. Just watch & enjoy the ride. RJ's success is the whole fan bases success.

[dballislife]

having quick and dick is gonna open up the driving lanes even more for rj to attack and hes always attacking, and his improved passing is gonna set them up for more threes...honestly these 3 compliment each other nicely

scottie looks like hes improving in all areas, man cannot wait until we healthy and see how they all play together

[nestea]

That's what is funny about some of these discussions. I don't see RJ being shipped out in the next 2 seasons, unless an unbelievable deal comes along to upgrade the team. While he is here, it is in the organizations best interest & the fans best interest for him to perform to the highest level possible. Just watch & enjoy the ride. RJ's success is the whole fan bases success.

Well said Medic

[DreamTeam09]

RJ 21-5-4 on 54%
Jdub 19-4-4 on 54%

Both 23 - Rgm board would have y'all believe these are two completely different players. Heck ppl will say Jdub better than Scottie.

[ATLTimekeeper]

RJ 21-5-4 on 54%
Jdub 19-4-4 on 54%

Both 23 - Rgm board would have y'all believe these are two completely different players. Heck ppl will say Jdub better than Scottie.

You got the stats wrong. Williams has been much better statistically this year and is a year younger. The guy who says WIlliams is a better defender than Scottie was out to lunch, though.

I can tell this thread is just going to go back and forth. RJ needs to be better on the road, period.

[ash_k]

That's what is funny about some of these discussions. I don't see RJ being shipped out in the next 2 seasons, unless an unbelievable deal comes along to upgrade the team. While he is here, it is in the organizations best interest & the fans best interest for him to perform to the highest level possible. Just watch & enjoy the ride. RJ's success is the whole fan bases success.

Eventually they(fans) will grow out of it as they are learning more about the game, going from "he is a throw-in" to "best as 6th man" to "1A/B/C to Scottie (and Gradey/IQ)" on a playoff team takes time to accept
It is starting to be a lot of 30pts game from him as a Raptor. He will figure out his road-play, he did score 37 in San Francisco at his 4th game as a Raptor.
4-6 with Scottie including that OT loss(eye injury) and that buzzer beater in Detroit

[PushDaRock]

RJ 21-5-4 on 54%
Jdub 19-4-4 on 54%

Both 23 - Rgm board would have y'all believe these are two completely different players. Heck ppl will say Jdub better than Scottie.

You got the stats wrong. Williams has been much better statistically this year and is a year younger. The guy who says WIlliams is a better defender than Scottie was out to lunch, though.

I can tell this thread is just going to go back and forth. RJ needs to be better on the road, period.

I'm guessing those stats are from last season and specifically RJ''s numbers as a Raptor.

I don't think it's that crazy of an opinion to think Williams is a better defender than Scottie considering he's been part of a top 4 and now the best defense in the NBA and is a key cog in it.