Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[Saciid11]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBfSsZRxrJ0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcZiOO6Mg2A[/youtube]

Hopefully he'll get better, poor guy.

We need to draft this guy, he'll fit in perfectly.

We already have Derozen, we don't need another project at the wing... either Anthony Davis or you draft more complete wings who can create on their own at the offensive end like Barnes or Lamb ...

[Saciid11]

There is a big difference between A Davis and JV

Davis is a shotblocking freak, at a level that can only come from a truly special vision and basketball IQ, like Duncan level smarts defensively. JV gets blocks because he has a length advantage over his league and is very active.

Davis is playing against teenagers, while Val is playing against grown men, and you're saying that Val is the one getting blocks because of his length advantage?

Davis is a stud, no doubt, but I don't see why you need to underrate Val's smarts - the kid has skill in spades.

They said the same thing about Darko, I take accomplished college player over any hyped European prospect... at the end of the day College prospects are safe pick while European prospect are 50/50 with exception of Gasol,and Dirk...

[Relentless88]

In the late first - second round, I like:

Crowder
Waiters
Kabongo
Wroten
D. Lamb
Moultrie
Fournier

IMO you take Wroten over Kabongo everytime. So far i've seen nothing on Myck game that I like, aside from speed.

I agree. I was just naming prospects in no specific order that I'm interested in.

Wroten is awful. I'd take Kabongo over Wroten 11 times out of 10.

[Dr Positivity]

There's nothing wrong with a player who primarily uses his physical tools to defend the basket

It's just that the biggest thing that makes Davis special is that he has a dominant defensive IQ and sense of controlling the game on that end (and while not flashy his offensive instincts are indicative of also a very very smart player) and that's just not JVal based on what we've seen IMO.

I could see JVal being like Joakim Noah defensively if he pans out. Which is an excellent thing to get at #5. But it's clear that there's a line in the sand between Anthony Davis and Noah's defense (and probably offense) that goes beyond physical tools and to me all indications are JVal is on the Noah side

[So Clutch]

There's nothing wrong with a player who primarily uses his physical tools to defend the basket

It's just that the biggest thing that makes Davis special is that he has a dominant defensive IQ and sense of controlling the game on that end (and while not flashy his offensive instincts are indicative of also a very very smart player) and that's just not JVal based on what we've seen IMO.

I could see JVal being like Joakim Noah defensively if he pans out. Which is an excellent thing to get at #5. But it's clear that there's a line in the sand between Anthony Davis and Noah's defense (and probably offense) that goes beyond physical tools and to me all indications are JVal is on the Noah side

I love how you lump these little blanket statements together so sneakily. Sure JVal may be closer to Noah's side defensively - and that's still a damn good defensive player. From what we've seen offensively, you have to be pretty special to not realize that Val will most likely be way better than Noah in most if not all aspects of the game offensively (save maybe passing).

[vaff87]

First of all, I'm not disputing that Davis is special. So let's set that aside. If we get to draft him, we should be ecstatic.

However, when you go on and on with your Jonas hoo haw, you lose me every time. The argument that he is kind of a Varajeo, strictly energy type is flat out nonsense. Varajeo doesn't have a shooting game or a practical post game. He's a mediocre free throw shooter with a poor mid-range game.

Varajeo came to the NBA at age 22, Jonas will arrive at age 20. At this stage, he's already more complete than Varajeo, but needs more strength and experience. You talk about nothing special in skill, but how do you define skill in a big? I mean seriously, the guy has nice, developing mid-range game. Is shooting not a skill? He's a significantly underrated passer. Is passing not a skill? He's got a developing post game. If good footwork for a big not a skill? If these are not skills, what is your definition?

I see something new from Jonas almost every game. Here's what I saw in the game on Friday against Minsk. At one point, I think it was in the third quarter, he posted up the opposing big man. Usually, he drives left and tries for a layup or hook shot. This time, however, he spun right and dunked the ball. When a postup big goes left and right with impunity, he's harder to cover, but it also makes it hard on a double team, because where do you provide the help. If you anticipate a move to the left, which is the higher percentage play because it also makes it harder for him to pass out to a teammate or get reposted, he can spin right, pretty well unmolested.

Now a lot of good NBA centers after a decade in the league don't have post up moves going both left and right. It's not easy. Just like lot of guards favour one hand over the other. That becomes part of team scouting report, i.e. "force him left, force him left"... For a 19-year-old postup player to be able to drive both left and right, and finish well, is a tremendous sign. Would you not call that skill?

Think I'm making this up? Well, here we go. At about 30 seconds, he drives left, at about a minute, he drives right. (In between, you get a nice rebound in traffic).

http://www.vtb-league.com/en/news/lietu ... -2006d.htm

There aren't too many 19 year olds playing against men his size who can do that.

Why are you arguing with him about Valanciunas? There's no point, he has his mind made up. Not everyone can be the great Meyers Leonard, y'know?

[dTox]

If the Celtics traded us Rondo for Bargnani I'd run naked down Bay Street and hump Colangelo's leg.

I didn't know you were an invisible children employee as well?

[fredericklove]

First of all, I'm not disputing that Davis is special. So let's set that aside. If we get to draft him, we should be ecstatic.

However, when you go on and on with your Jonas hoo haw, you lose me every time. The argument that he is kind of a Varajeo, strictly energy type is flat out nonsense. Varajeo doesn't have a shooting game or a practical post game. He's a mediocre free throw shooter with a poor mid-range game.

Varajeo came to the NBA at age 22, Jonas will arrive at age 20. At this stage, he's already more complete than Varajeo, but needs more strength and experience. You talk about nothing special in skill, but how do you define skill in a big? I mean seriously, the guy has nice, developing mid-range game. Is shooting not a skill? He's a significantly underrated passer. Is passing not a skill? He's got a developing post game. If good footwork for a big not a skill? If these are not skills, what is your definition?

I see something new from Jonas almost every game. Here's what I saw in the game on Friday against Minsk. At one point, I think it was in the third quarter, he posted up the opposing big man. Usually, he drives left and tries for a layup or hook shot. This time, however, he spun right and dunked the ball. When a postup big goes left and right with impunity, he's harder to cover, but it also makes it hard on a double team, because where do you provide the help. If you anticipate a move to the left, which is the higher percentage play because it also makes it harder for him to pass out to a teammate or get reposted, he can spin right, pretty well unmolested.

Now a lot of good NBA centers after a decade in the league don't have post up moves going both left and right. It's not easy. Just like lot of guards favour one hand over the other. That becomes part of team scouting report, i.e. "force him left, force him left"... For a 19-year-old postup player to be able to drive both left and right, and finish well, is a tremendous sign. Would you not call that skill?

Think I'm making this up? Well, here we go. At about 30 seconds, he drives left, at about a minute, he drives right. (In between, you get a nice rebound in traffic).

http://www.vtb-league.com/en/news/lietu ... -2006d.htm

There aren't too many 19 year olds playing against men his size who can do that.

Why are you arguing with him about Valanciunas? There's no point, he has his mind made up. Not everyone can be the great Meyers Leonard, y'know?

I know right? The all star Leonard with his athleticism and not so much anywhere else, all star!!!!

[nesta]

I had a dream...that Toronto picked Perry Jones

[Los Manos]

I had a dream...that Toronto picked Perry Jones

That's a nightmare man.

[gerrit4]

Call me crazy, but I'd happily use a top 10 pick on James Macadoo this year if he were to declare. He's starting to look more polished now, and he looks like a sure thing solid NBA player.

[sunny]

the draft board has been completely altered this weekend. Most top prospects had a disappointing week.

[Tough Tony D]

the draft board has been completely altered this weekend. Most top prospects had a disappointing week.

I agree, I'm dissapointed in almost all of them except maybe Beal.

[Brinbe]

That's why you don't draft/slot/prognosticate solely based on a few games. Take a look at the overall year. Christ, y'all have watched dozens of games of these guys and posted hundreds of times between all these draft threads. Don't be discouraged now, haha.

Davis
Drummond
Barnes
MKG
Lamb
Beal

We're in good shape to at least one of those guys, we should be pleased.

[ash_k]

I hope the MKG fans are seeing, how limited his offense is when the real pressure is on..

No range to speak off (and maybe it is just me but looks awkward with the ball in his hands)

He will be an energy player coming off the bench/ a hustler.


I cannot believe that he is ranked as the second best prospect in DX and Chad Ford...
Over Lamb and Barnes?? even Beal? Perry Jones?! really?!

[Tough Tony D]

That's why you don't draft/slot/prognosticate solely based on a few games. Take a look at the overall year. Christ, y'all have watched dozens of games of these guys and posted hundreds of times between all these draft threads. Don't be discouraged now haha

I agree, I didnt change my wishlist, just dissapointed in most of them. Its a time when you need to step up, and they aren't thus far.

[Brinbe]

That's why you don't draft/slot/prognosticate solely based on a few games. Take a look at the overall year. Christ, y'all have watched dozens of games of these guys and posted hundreds of times between all these draft threads. Don't be discouraged now haha

I agree, I didnt change my wishlist, just dissapointed in most of them. Its a time when you need to step up, and they aren't thus far.

Well, other than Lamb/Drummond, Florida/UNC/Kentucky are still alive, so there's still (hopefully) a few games left for those guys to do something.

Look on the bright side, there's other players that have played well that we should be looking at right now and targeting with a late-first (assuming we make a move for one) or our early and late 2nd-rounders. Guys like Jae Crowder, Royce White, Draymond Green, etc.

[Tough Tony D]

That's why you don't draft/slot/prognosticate solely based on a few games. Take a look at the overall year. Christ, y'all have watched dozens of games of these guys and posted hundreds of times between all these draft threads. Don't be discouraged now haha

I agree, I didnt change my wishlist, just dissapointed in most of them. Its a time when you need to step up, and they aren't thus far.

Well, other than Lamb/Drummond, Florida/UNC/Kentucky are still alive, so there's still (hopefully) a few games left for those guys to do something.

Look on the bright side, there's other players that have played well that we should be looking at right now and targeting with a late-first (assuming we make a move for one) or our early and late 2nd-rounders. Guys like Jae Crowder, Royce White, Draymond Green, etc.

true

[Dr Positivity]

I hope the MKG fans are seeing, how limited his offense is when the real pressure is on..

No range to speak off (and maybe it is just me but looks awkward with the ball in his hands)

He will be an energy player coming off the bench/ a hustler.


I cannot believe that he is ranked as the second best prospect in DX and Chad Ford...
Over Lamb and Barnes?? even Beal? Perry Jones?! really?!

MKG vs Harkless
Robinson vs Moultrie
Marshall vs Machado

3 very good examples of players with almost the exact same profile in stats, physical and skill tools, and age, yet with massive gaps between them on the "consensus" rankings. What the 3 pairs have in common is that the players on the super programs are the highly ranked ones

I expect the gap between all 3 pairs to shrink enormously between now and June. I remember when everyone was wondering why Flynn was in the 20s and Teague top 7 at this point in time. Then Flynn goes 6 and Teague 19th! (and actually, the original ranking was far more deserved)

[Myth111]

Kendall Marshall broke his wrist in the game tonight.