The Ringer: Raptors should consider blowing it up

[CoachJReturns]

Why would we blow it up ? Because we can't beat the cavs lol ok then I guess the whole league should blow it up because the last time I checked the cavs were the champions. If the cavs go on the win the title again you're gonna blow it up because your team lost to the champs in the 2nd round hahahaha ok there. Yes blow it up and watch free agents rush to canada to play for a losing team. Yes watch them rush to play with Bruno, Jakob, norm, delon and draft picks. Yay back to the good ole days when we had to overpay old guys on their last legs, yay back when guy like morning would say canada ? Canada ? Did I just get traded to canada ? And not show up at all.

This has little to do with the Cavs. Raptors can hardly beat the Heat, Bucks, Wizards, Celtics, Brooklyn (2 years? ago), Pacers and so on. We have had the same core for 5 years and we are only going to get worse...

There's a comprehension issue among most who are entirely opposed to changing direction. They never actually read opposing viewpoints and instead think every critical post of the team is somehow entirely dependent on the most recent game's outcome. Personally, I'm like you and have been open to a full rebuild for some time now. We're in the minority, but I'm fine with that.

[StopitLeo]

You can't just blow it up. People need to recognise that you have to have an elite superstar level player to be a true finals contender. We don't have one. The only way you get one is in the draft or way less rarely in a trade like the Harden one.

We aren't bad enough to tank. Basically we acquire assets (prospects and picks) while competing as a perennial playoff team (with a realistic conference finals ceiling) and hope to draft/trade for someone that develops beyond their draft position (e.g., Kawhi and Curry) or act on the opportunity to do a Harden type trade if such a situation arises.

[Scott Hall]

I'm not saying it's the right move or even advocating it...

But the Raps are gonna resign Lowry and Ibaka just to retain the assets and not let them go for nothing....

So the Raps are gonna make a big trade with Val and Powell having the most value. To dump Carroll and Cojo
they might have to be attached.

Ideally you don't want to trade a young player like Powell on a cheap contract but he's gonna need to get paid
soon. If you can find a player with a similar upside and age and that's a better fit attached with a Val or Carroll
contract I wonder what they could get?

Can you turn Powell and Val/DMC into a bigger asset?

My preference is always to keep Powell but if they want to make a splashy trade Powell might have to be included

[RaptorsNorth]

Why would we blow it up ? Because we can't beat the cavs lol ok then I guess the whole league should blow it up because the last time I checked the cavs were the champions. If the cavs go on the win the title again you're gonna blow it up because your team lost to the champs in the 2nd round hahahaha ok there. Yes blow it up and watch free agents rush to canada to play for a losing team. Yes watch them rush to play with Bruno, Jakob, norm, delon and draft picks. Yay back to the good ole days when we had to overpay old guys on their last legs, yay back when guy like morning would say canada ? Canada ? Did I just get traded to canada ? And not show up at all.

This has little to do with the Cavs. Raptors can hardly beat the Heat, Bucks, Wizards, Celtics, Brooklyn (2 years? ago), Pacers and so on. We have had the same core for 5 years and we are only going to get worse...

Fact is you don't blow it up after going to the ECF and the 2nd round of the playoff no matter how it happened. This organization needs to build a winning reputation more than most teams in the league. If this organization is not a winning organization then you're not getting players here, and even if they're here they'll bolt at the first chance they get. The NBA is one of the hardest leagues to win a championship in. This whole we need to win a championship now or blow it up mentality is not to way to go. Retooling is one thing but to completely blow this team up will be a big mistake in a market that's just starting to make leg room. If this team goes back to being the craptors then it's back to irrelevance. The Raptors have the some of the lowest numbers amongst people that watch sports in this country and I don't see how a craptors team will help them stay relevant.

[Throwback24]

This makes absolutely no sense. Why would we entertain this?

[CoachJReturns]

You can't just blow it up. People need to recognise that you have to have an elite superstar level player to be a true finals contender. We don't have one. The only way you get one is in the draft or way less rarely in a trade like the Harden one.

We aren't bad enough to tank. Basically we acquire assets (prospects and picks) while competing as a perennial playoff team (with a realistic conference finals ceiling) and hope to draft/trade for someone that develops beyond their draft position (e.g., Kawhi and Curry) or act on the opportunity to do a Harden type trade if such a situation arises.

If 2 of our top 3 players weren't on the wrong side of 30, or trending downwards I would be more open to this possibility. But one of our two all-stars hobbles into the playoffs every year and will be a 31 year old point guard on a max, or near max deal. I know the response to that is we can trade him, but the market for an aging player who plays the deepest position in the league(it's kind of absurd how many good point guards there are in this era) probably isn't very strong. We might just get handcuffed with his contract like the Knicks with Melo.
Serge is solid, but he's reached his peak and despite what some may say on our forum, he is not the dominant defender he used to be and is trending downward.

So if the idea is to get lucky in the draft we run into an obvious issue. Even if we drafted a stud with a late pick, by the time they were ready to turn this team around we would be no better off because 1 of our 2 stars was no longer the same player.
I get the desire to see a team that wins more often that it loses, particularly when this franchise has done so much of the opposite. I mean they didn't even tank well most of the time.( That year where we were waiting for JV to come over from Europe should have been a full out tank and we picked 9th lol.)
I just don't think we'll ever get further than we did last year as long as DeMar and Kyle are here. So I feel it makes more sense to put more of an emphasis on developing the young guys rather than just making the playoffs for the sake of making the playoffs(which half the teams in the league do by the way), but that's just my opinion.

[StopitLeo]

You can't just blow it up. People need to recognise that you have to have an elite superstar level player to be a true finals contender. We don't have one. The only way you get one is in the draft or way less rarely in a trade like the Harden one.

We aren't bad enough to tank. Basically we acquire assets (prospects and picks) while competing as a perennial playoff team (with a realistic conference finals ceiling) and hope to draft/trade for someone that develops beyond their draft position (e.g., Kawhi and Curry) or act on the opportunity to do a Harden type trade if such a situation arises.

If 2 of our top 3 players weren't on the wrong side of 30, or trending downwards I would be more open to this possibility. But one of our two all-stars hobbles into the playoffs every year and will be a 31 year old point guard on a max, or near max deal. I know the response to that is we can trade him, but the market for an aging player who plays the deepest position in the league(it's kind of absurd how many good point guards there are in this era) probably isn't very strong. We might just get handcuffed with his contract like the Knicks with Melo.
Serge is solid, but he's reached his peak and despite what some may say on our forum, he is not the dominant defender he used to be and is trending downward.

So if the idea is to get lucky in the draft we run into an obvious issue. Even if we drafted a stud with a late pick, by the time they were ready to turn this team around we would be no better off because 1 of our 2 stars was no longer the same player.
I get the desire to see a team that wins more often that it loses, particularly when this franchise has done so much of the opposite. I mean they didn't even tank well most of the time.( That year where we were waiting for JV to come over from Europe should have been a full out tank and we picked 9th lol.)
I just don't think we'll ever get further than we did last year as long as DeMar and Kyle are here. So I feel it makes more sense to put more of an emphasis on developing the young guys rather than just making the playoffs for the sake of making the playoffs(which half the teams in the league do by the way), but that's just my opinion.

If we draft someone who ends up being elite it doesn't matter if Kyle and DeMar have lost a step. You would build around the new guy.

Anyway, at this point an ambitious idea would be to sign and trade Lowry to the Sixers. That young team needs veteran leadership and a PG - Lowry would be ideal (plus it's his hometown). They can also afford to have a max contract on the books. The trade would be centered around the #4 pick, a future 1st, and rounded out with someone like Covington coming our way. We get an infusion of young talent and a future pick to play with. Delon takes over at the point.

[Aventador]

you can't be afraid to change it up because it might be worse. it might also be better.

why are the lot of you so unambitious with life?

[The_Hater]

Every bad playoff doesn't need to end with angry people screaming 'blow it up'.

Raptor fans should know better than anyone that building a 50 win team is difficult. Building a team to beat the Cavs is even more difficult but you're not even in the race if you decide to start over. Every good run by a franchise doesn't necessarily end with the team knocking off the defending champs.

[Throwback24]

Every bad playoff doesn't need to end with angry people screaming 'blow it up'.

Raptor fans should know better than anyone that building a 50 win team is difficult. Building a team to beat the Cavs is even more difficult but you're not even in the race if you decide to start over. Every good run by a franchise doesn't necessarily end with the team knocking off the defending champs.

We could easily be a Joe Ingles cut away from becoming a true contender. We just need some luck.

[The_Hater]

Every bad playoff doesn't need to end with angry people screaming 'blow it up'.

Raptor fans should know better than anyone that building a 50 win team is difficult. Building a team to beat the Cavs is even more difficult but you're not even in the race if you decide to start over. Every good run by a franchise doesn't necessarily end with the team knocking off the defending champs.

We could easily be a Joe Ingles cut away from becoming a true contender. We just need some luck.

Speaking of which, we would be better with Whiteside in the middle....

[StopitLeo]

Every bad playoff doesn't need to end with angry people screaming 'blow it up'.

Raptor fans should know better than anyone that building a 50 win team is difficult. Building a team to beat the Cavs is even more difficult but you're not even in the race if you decide to start over. Every good run by a franchise doesn't necessarily end with the team knocking off the defending champs.

Very true. If the seeding was different we very likely would have been in the ECFs again. That pretty darn good.

[The_Hater]

Every bad playoff doesn't need to end with angry people screaming 'blow it up'.

Raptor fans should know better than anyone that building a 50 win team is difficult. Building a team to beat the Cavs is even more difficult but you're not even in the race if you decide to start over. Every good run by a franchise doesn't necessarily end with the team knocking off the defending champs.

Very true. If the seeding was different we very likely would have been in the ECFs again. That pretty darn good.

Yup. I believe that we're better than the other 2 teams as well. The winner of that series isn't touching the Cavs either.

[Throwback24]

Also can I throw one what if scenario out there. Wouldn't Horford fit this team a lot better than Ibaka?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Also can I throw one what if scenario out there. Wouldn't Horford fit this team a lot better than Ibaka?

maybe. they have similar games TBH.

[I_Like_Dirt]

you can't be afraid to change it up because it might be worse. it might also be better.

why are the lot of you so unambitious with life?

Tearing everything down and throwing everything away isn't the only way to be ambitious. There is also a rather significant trend since about 2011 whereby all-NBA talents aren't nearly as concentrated in the lottery as they once were. In fact, in terms of all-NBA talents, I'd argue that as many or more of them have been drafted outside of the lottery than in the lottery. If you want a Lebron, you have to strip things down and pray for decades, in all likelihood. If you want a Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Steph Curry, Jimmy Butler, etc., tanking isn't necessarily the best way to go about getting such a player.

[Throwback24]

Also can I throw one what if scenario out there. Wouldn't Horford fit this team a lot better than Ibaka?

maybe. they have similar games TBH.

They actually don't imo. Horford can put the basketball on the floor, I think he's the better low post defender (much more disciplined, unlike Ibaka he doesn't jump at shooters beyond the arc and positions himself well), and is a much much better decision maker and facilitator. Having Horford on our team would raise the collective IQ of our team by at least 20 pts.

A taller Draymond Green if you will.... We desperately need a big that can keep the moving like he does.

[Moose23]

Also can I throw one what if scenario out there. Wouldn't Horford fit this team a lot better than Ibaka?

maybe. they have similar games TBH.

They actually don't imo. Horford can put the basketball on the floor, I think he's the better low post defender (much more disciplined, unlike Ibaka he doesn't jump at shooters beyond the arc and positions himself well), much much better decision maker and facilitator.

A taller Draymond Green if you will.... We desperately need a big that can keep the moving like he does.

A JV and Horford front court with a PG that can get his own shot AND facilitate and 2 shooters at the sg and sf spot would be brilliant.

[The_Hater]

maybe. they have similar games TBH.

They actually don't imo. Horford can put the basketball on the floor, I think he's the better low post defender (much more disciplined, unlike Ibaka he doesn't jump at shooters beyond the arc and positions himself well), much much better decision maker and facilitator.

A taller Draymond Green if you will.... We desperately need a big that can keep the moving like he does.

A JV and Horford front court with a PG that can get his own shot AND facilitate and 2 shooters at the sg and sf spot would be brilliant.

Except Horford plays Center. If we had Horford, we wouldn't need JV at all. Horford and Ibaka is more modern set of bigs who can shoot, pass and defend as a tandem.

[Moose23]

They actually don't imo. Horford can put the basketball on the floor, I think he's the better low post defender (much more disciplined, unlike Ibaka he doesn't jump at shooters beyond the arc and positions himself well), much much better decision maker and facilitator.

A taller Draymond Green if you will.... We desperately need a big that can keep the moving like he does.

A JV and Horford front court with a PG that can get his own shot AND facilitate and 2 shooters at the sg and sf spot would be brilliant.

Except Horford plays Center. If we had Horford, we wouldn't need JV at all. Horford and Ibaka is more modern set of bigs who can shoot, pass and defend as a tandem.

Except horford performs better as a PF and by far prefers to play that position.