[Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted

[Johnny Bball]

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Raptors have Birch and Achiuwa. And Boucher for depth. They don't need another back-up centre which is Powell. He would only take minutes from them.

So what can Dallas send back in salary that we want? Nothing really. So it would have to include their first round pick. Dallas won't do that. So, there isn't a deal to be had.

The only other way this happens is if Dallas maybe finds a shooting/point guard that's a third team to trade to us, but that seems like that is a bit of trading the same for the same, unless it's a younger version/prospect.

[Skeezo]

Masai is smart!!!!

Hes going to let Dragic play regular minutes to increase his trade value before the trade deadline

I ask this in all seriousness... How do you increase the trade value of 35yr old on 19.5m expiring deal? I think the league kinda has a pretty good grasp on what Dragic is, no?

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

[Tha Cynic]

The issue is who will you get back for 19 Mil to match Dragic’s salary. We obviously won’t get any star, and you don’t want to eat up your cap if your getting back players who don’t also expire. Cap space is more valuable for this team, we may not have attracted any significant player this year but the landscape always changes and we could get players to come the next few years. 2023 is the next big free agent class, so we don’t want any contracts that take cap away from us for that summer

Look at that, you’ve indirectly explained to yourself why this trade ain’t bad. Not only do we maintain cap flexibility for future years (instead of tying yourself to a lengthy contract for a player you don’t believe in), but we also get a young prospect that you do believe in (on a rookie scale contract for 3 more years) + a savvy veteran ex all star guard (a position of need) for a year while our young guard core (FVV, GTJ, Flynn) develop and mature.

Win (maintain flexibility) win (prospect you want on rookie scale) and win (legend vet to help for a year at position of need)! All for a player that could’ve signed with the same team outright.

You did it SurgeIblocka! you found away to highlight a benefit!! Even if you are still articulating it in a complaining way.

Bingo.

I mean, Webster and Masai haven't made it a huge secret what they're doing. The Raptors are not the Kings, who tank every year. The Raptors will develop and win while getting better for the future with their young core. That means you don't just trade away players every year for the sake of it like the fans here want.

Dragic fits in well and they have a ton of players now who fit the mold of what the NBA seems to be trending towards. If even one of those players pans out, you fit them to a pretty solid young core.

[redeye514]

I ask this in all seriousness... How do you increase the trade value of 35yr old on 19.5m expiring deal? I think the league kinda has a pretty good grasp on what Dragic is, no?

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

[Skeezo]

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights... 19.5m to fill a "positional need" for Dragic in a season where I doubt we are in the Top 10 in the East is not good money management... I'll keep saying it... I hope Achuiwa becomes a monster and proves me wrong because we made a hefty investment to get him

Let's put it another way... Masai wanted all this flexibility to go after Giannis for THIS offseason... Do you know what we got for all that cap space? Achuiwa, Dragic, Boucher, and Watanabe.

[bluerap23]

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

A large part of Dragic's value is in his expiring contract. If you look at the James Harden trade as an example, what did Houston want?
They wanted draft picks and expiring contracts in return to have clear books this year. Between Dragic and Boucher we have enough money to make something happen if the opportunity arrises.

Another option I could see us pursuing is trading Trent Jr, picks and Dragic for an upgrade at 2G.

[redeye514]

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights.

By spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

[Son Goku 25]

The issue is who will you get back for 19 Mil to match Dragic’s salary. We obviously won’t get any star, and you don’t want to eat up your cap if your getting back players who don’t also expire. Cap space is more valuable for this team, we may not have attracted any significant player this year but the landscape always changes and we could get players to come the next few years. 2023 is the next big free agent class, so we don’t want any contracts that take cap away from us for that summer

Look at that, you’ve indirectly explained to yourself why this trade ain’t bad. Not only do we maintain cap flexibility for future years (instead of tying yourself to a lengthy contract for a player you don’t believe in), but we also get a young prospect that you do believe in (on a rookie scale contract for 3 more years) + a savvy veteran ex all star guard (a position of need) for a year while our young guard core (FVV, GTJ, Flynn) develop and mature.

Win (maintain flexibility) win (prospect you want on rookie scale) and win (legend vet to help for a year at position of need)! All for a player that could’ve signed with the same team outright.

You did it SurgeIblocka! you found away to highlight a benefit!! Even if you are still articulating it in a complaining way.

Bingo.

I mean, Webster and Masai haven't made it a huge secret what they're doing. The Raptors are not the Kings, who tank every year. The Raptors will develop and win while getting better for the future with their young core. That means you don't just trade away players every year for the sake of it like the fans here want.

Dragic fits in well and they have a ton of players now who fit the mold of what the NBA seems to be trending towards. If even one of those players pans out, you fit them to a pretty solid young core.

100% reasonable and makes sense.

[Son Goku 25]

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights.

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

Lol I don't get what some of these posters want. You can't win every year. You wanted to tank? Well, looks like the team is heading in the direction of a proper rebuild but in a classic Masai and Bobby way, not like the trash organizations like kings and cavs. We maintain a solid core and continue building our young players then take chances on trades, we did win using this same formula before so unless some of these posters think they know better, they can stay in their lane.

[Skeezo]

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights.

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

[Purple+Black]

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

You say terms like ‘good money’ and ‘asset management’, but your entire post history in this thread contradicts this.

Raps get a first round pick with a prospect that they believe in on a rookie scale contract for 3 years. Asset!

Raps had the ability to sign someone long term, but the people they liked went for bigger dollars than they thought they were the worth, so instead of overpaying (turning good money to bad Money) or just signing someone worse who is cheaper, and being tied to a 3-4 year deal with said person you don’t believe in (bad money out the gate), they decided the better path is to punt the cap space till next year, while still retaining a serviceable player for a year at a position of need. They did not turn their ‘good money’ into bad money.. they kept it as good money!

Cheer up pal, you got a first rounder, a savvy vet for a year at a position of need, and maintained flexibility.

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights... 19.5m to fill a "positional need" for Dragic in a season where I doubt we are in the Top 10 in the East is not good money management... I'll keep saying it... I hope Achuiwa becomes a monster and proves me wrong because we made a hefty investment to get him

Let's put it another way... Masai wanted all this flexibility to go after Giannis for THIS offseason... Do you know what we got for all that cap space? Achuiwa, Dragic, Boucher, and Watanabe.

Not entirely accurate, we were also opportunistic in acquiring a good older PG during an offseason when there was the largest premium on such PGs that we have seen in recent NBA history. It’s situational and opportunistic, this is a copy-cat league and what we saw w/ Chris Paul is definitely top of mind currently.

Does that mean we’d get an exceptional return for sure, not necessarily, but I’d say this is an excellent gamble to take and the messaging we’ve been using around the trade, including our intention to keep him is exactly what I’d want us to be doing. There’s a good chance someone overpays, there are multiple teams desperate for PGs atm who have all lost our on PG sweepstakes and need to satisfy their star players (Mavs/Pelicans).

Still playing 4D chess young padawans.

[Quattro]

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights.

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

What’s your rush to trade him? You know he can be traded at any time this season right? Like for example, if a contender (I hate to break it to you but we’re not) needs a vet down the stretch due to injury or for depth, then all of a sudden his asking price may go up. I’m the meantime, he helps out at a position of need.

Who was out there on the free agent market that would have realistically made this team move from rebuild to championship contender that we missed out on this summer. Masai has said and proven over and over again that he doesn’t care about making the playoffs, he wants to field a true contender for championships. And we’ve never had any luck with big name free agents coming here anyway. He’s built his teams through savvy drafting and trades over the years not doling out stupid contracts to guys like Allen or Holmes.

[redeye514]

Until people realize we paid 17m of our cap space for that "asset" in addition to K.Lowry we really don't understand the opportunity cost of Achuiwa's rights.

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

Lol. Ok dude, you got the voo doo, you know what was in everyone’s mind. Raptors spent $19.5 on precious.. they definitely should’ve locked up Holmes for 4 years. Yep yep. You got it bro.

[Skeezo]

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

What’s your rush to trade him? You know he can be traded at any time this season right? Like for example, if a contender (I hate to break it to you but we’re not) needs a vet down the stretch due to injury or for depth, then all of a sudden his asking price may go up. I’m the meantime, he helps out at a position of need.

Who was out there on the free agent market that would have realistically made this team move from rebuild to championship contender that we missed out on this summer. Masai has said and proven over and over again that he doesn’t care about making the playoffs, he wants to field a true contender for championships. And we’ve never had any luck with big name free agents coming here anyway. He’s built his teams through savvy drafting and trades over the years not doling out stupid contracts to guys like Allen or Holmes.

Read the thread, I'm not going to rehash the same answers over and over

[Courtside]

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

What’s your rush to trade him? You know he can be traded at any time this season right? Like for example, if a contender (I hate to break it to you but we’re not) needs a vet down the stretch due to injury or for depth, then all of a sudden his asking price may go up. I’m the meantime, he helps out at a position of need.

Who was out there on the free agent market that would have realistically made this team move from rebuild to championship contender that we missed out on this summer. Masai has said and proven over and over again that he doesn’t care about making the playoffs, he wants to field a true contender for championships. And we’ve never had any luck with big name free agents coming here anyway. He’s built his teams through savvy drafting and trades over the years not doling out stupid contracts to guys like Allen or Holmes.

Read the thread, I'm not going to rehash the same answers over and over

To be fair, if you're going to rehash the same complaints then you're setting yourself up to have to rehash the same answers.

[Skeezo]

Be spending $15MM over the next 4 for Holmes?

Raptors clearly targeted Precious.. it’s who they wanted to develop, and they got him. Plus a piece to help the team this year. Plus not committing to along term contract for someone they may not be as high on, at a fraction of the cost.

Like Bobby literally answered these questions in his presser.

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

Lol. Ok dude, you got the voo doo, you know what was in everyone’s mind. Raptors spent $19.5 on precious.. they definitely should’ve locked up Holmes for 4 years. Yep yep. You got it bro.

I love how you keep anecdotally bringing up ONE guy (Holmes) who is clearly on a contract that you don't like as a reason why the Raptors should not have valued their cap space.

Dinwiddie just signed for 3 years / 62m? I'll take him ALL-DAY over Holmes... How much is that 17m worth to a team that needs to lessen their luxury tax bill? Fact is, the same apologists who were saying a late first Rd pick was worthless at the deadline last year, are now trying to convince us a late 1st Rd pick (Achuiwa) was good value in exchange for Lowry and all 17m of our cap space this summer.

[Badonkadonk]

I ask this in all seriousness... How do you increase the trade value of 35yr old on 19.5m expiring deal? I think the league kinda has a pretty good grasp on what Dragic is, no?

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

"Give up our cap space" is a misrepresentation. It's been written up in many places, but the only way to free up meaningful cap space (eg. for a run at Allen, who the Cavs would've matched anyway) would've been to renounce a bunch of players, including several who are now committed to next season (Trent Jr., Boucher, Lowry of course was leaving anyway, possibly Yuta and up to 7 others depending on how much).

Consensus was that the Raps would operate as an above-tax team for good reason.

[JPriest]

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

Lol. Ok dude, you got the voo doo, you know what was in everyone’s mind. Raptors spent $19.5 on precious.. they definitely should’ve locked up Holmes for 4 years. Yep yep. You got it bro.

I love how you keep anecdotally bringing up ONE guy (Holmes) who is clearly on a contract that you don't like as a reason why the Raptors should not have valued their cap space.

Dinwiddie just signed for 3 years / 62m? I'll take him ALL-DAY over Holmes... How much is that 17m worth to a team that needs to lessen their luxury tax bill? Fact is, the same apologists who were saying a late first Rd pick was worthless at the deadline last year, are now trying to convince us a late 1st Rd pick (Achuiwa) was good value in exchange for Lowry and all 17m of our cap space this summer.

Dinwiddie's coming off a torn ACL and he's a poor 3 point shooter. and you're assuming he'd want to come here given the same amount of years and dollars. he's also already 28 years old and he likely wouldn't push the Raptors closer to contention. The minutes are better served given to younger guys like Trent, Malachi, Barnes etc. or even Dragic who comes in at only a one year contract. you also have to consider if the Raptors wanted him at that price due to culture and personality fit. Also you fail to consider the asset that is an expiring contract, and just because he wasn't rerouted to a third team asap for garbage players who you likely consider "assets" doesn't mean he won't be traded at the deadline to a desperate team. or you can just let him expire and have more money available next season or the one after to make moves. it's about flexibility, not making moves for the sake of it. this front office doesn't spend money for the sake of doing so like other clown front offices. they'd rather save the money for bigger and better fish and let cheaper, younger and hungrier players develop.

I also like how you're assuming things about Dragic and the Raptors just because he wasn't contacted by the Raptors in a period when signings weren't even allowed to be made official. I doubt Achiuwa was contacted either but the Raptors still wanted him badly in the trade.

[redeye514]

I've already said Achuiwa better be good because we paid a lot for him... That much is clear about the Raptors wanting Precious...

As for the rest, Bobby can spin it however he likes... Fact is, the Raptors did not even contact Dragic until days after the announcement, that doesn't sound like a team that "wants him here." That is pure media spin because they weren't able to get jack for him on the trade market. Personally, I don't give a damn what a 35yr old Dragic can bring to a team that isn't even looking to be in the playoff picture this year... If you wanted Vet leadership and to fill a positional need, Danny Green is still on the market, & I'm sure you could have got him for a third of the price of Dragic... We paid 19.5m for Achuiwa, & Lowry was a freebie in the deal, period.

Lol. Ok dude, you got the voo doo, you know what was in everyone’s mind. Raptors spent $19.5 on precious.. they definitely should’ve locked up Holmes for 4 years. Yep yep. You got it bro.

I love how you keep anecdotally bringing up ONE guy (Holmes) who is clearly on a contract that you don't like as a reason why the Raptors should not have valued their cap space.

Dinwiddie just signed for 3 years / 62m? I'll take him ALL-DAY over Holmes... How much is that 17m worth to a team that needs to lessen their luxury tax bill? Fact is, the same apologists who were saying a late first Rd pick was worthless at the deadline last year, are now trying to convince us a late 1st Rd pick (Achuiwa) was good value in exchange for Lowry and all 17m of our cap space this summer.

So you know that management felt it would be good to let Dinwiddie gobble minutes for 3 years vs. Developing GTJ and Flynn at the same cap hold combined? Like, how do you even know that our management cared for dinwiddie? Let alone a dinwidde at $20MM? You like spencer that much, or is he just a name who happened to be available this year so it’s whim we absolutely need to appease the fan base with a name… even though it flys in the face of what we said were doing, which is to develop youth…

[Skeezo]

I don’t know if it’s necessarily about increasing his value, but teams circumstances can be different come deadline. Teams have injuries, or may need another piece. A veteran ball handler, playmaker and scorer in Dragic holds value. Not more so than now, but playoff teams can certainly become more desperate. If Dragic is playing well for us, I could see the demand for him being greater at the deadline than it is now. Certain teams made the mistake of not upping the ante to add Lowry last year. I think that proved to be a huge mistake as it likely would’ve changed the outcome of the playoffs. Dragic is not Lowry, but teams could find themselves in a similar situation as last year and may not want to repeat their mistakes.

So we decided to give up all our cap space for a 35yr old PG making 19.5m dollars, "HOPING" a team has an injury, or positional need to somehow make Dragic valuable on the trade market? I don't know, it doesn't sound like either good money or asset management. I really do hope Precious Achiuwa proves me wrong, and that the 19.5m dollar investment was worth it.

"Give up our cap space" is a misrepresentation. It's been written up in many places, but the only way to free up meaningful cap space (eg. for a run at Allen, who the Cavs would've matched anyway) would've been to renounce a bunch of players, including several who are now committed to next season (Trent Jr., Boucher, Lowry of course was leaving anyway, possibly Yuta and up to 7 others depending on how much).

Consensus was that the Raps would operate as an above-tax team for good reason.

Misrepresentation ??? Raps has 17m in cap space that included that cap hold for GTJ... Letting go of Watanabe would have given us enough space to get in the Dinwiddie discussions... Yes, if we wanted the 27m in cap space we would have had to trade Boucher or not take his team option...

If there was a consensus, you were going to operate above the cap, why did they trade Powell to ultimately pay the same AAV for GTJ? I thought the idea was that GTJ has a smaller cap hold which would allow us to better take advantage of our cap space... The "consensus" isn't making much sense.