The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

God Squad · Post #221 » by **God Squad** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:47 am

I'm telling yall we got non robotic Kawhi (ceiling) or notta donkey Draymond (mid).. or Kyle Anderson on steroids. (Floor)

Chandan · Post #222 » by **Chandan** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:39 am

the raptors board would have traded the entire team for Michael Carter Williams during his rookie year.

DrCoach · Post #223 » by **DrCoach** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:00 am

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

SHFT · Post #224 » by **SHFT** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:54 pm

Suggs was advertised as being more NBA ready, that we are even having this convo is a good sign for Barnes, who looks less raw than we were led to believe.

Still raw, for sure, but objective higher ceiling makes this easy. We didn't draft for the next year or two. This was a future pick. Suggs will almost certainly have the better rookie season.

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mulamutti · Post #225 » by **mulamutti** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:14 pm

This is actually not that complex.

PGs are not the Difference maker in winning championships. What percentage of final MVPs have been traditional PGs in the last 30 years? If your PG is your best player, your ceiling is being a treadmill playoff team. Even with Lowry that's what we were able to do.

With the raps player development, coaching and scouting, they're confident in their ability to be a treadmill playoff team. They don't need Suggs to help form a treadmill. The ONLY proven way to win championships, as we very well know, is to have legendary 2-way forwards, in addition to depth, defense and the rest. Barnes has way more upside. Worst case he doesn't pan out, we would be a treadmill playoff team anyway.

Suggs is not goiNg to be the main reason his team wins a championship. All he can do is be a Lillard or lowry and fizzle out year after year in the playoffs, unless he joins a legendary forward (maybe Barnes haha).

Westside Gunn · Post #226 » by **Westside Gunn** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:18 pm

What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

nizaam · Post #227 » by **nizaam** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:48 pm

God Squad wrote:I'm telling yall we got non robotic Kawhi (ceiling) or notta donkey Draymond (mid).. or Kyle Anderson on steroids. (Floor)

kawhi is so strong he just bullies guys down low and can get lots of rebounds with his shoulders used for box outs. hes also automatic from 3 and all world finisher at the rim. Not easy to replicate.

OakleyDokely · Post #228 » by **OakleyDokely** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:50 pm

Westside Gunn wrote:What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

BPA according to who though? Skal was BPA according to many boards.

The Raptors board has probably been the best board in the NBA over the last 7-8 years based on the players they've drafted (or signed just after the draft) without top picks. Their draft record should give you confidence.

BDDray420 · Post #229 » by **BDDray420** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:53 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
Westside Gunn wrote:What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.
BPA according to who though? Skal was BPA according to many boards.

The Raptors board has probably been the best board in the NBA over the last 7-8 years based on the players they've drafted (or signed just after the draft) without top picks.

lol I remember Skal being so hyped on this board.

nizaam · Post #230 » by **nizaam** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:54 pm

I guess another thing theres just way too many good point guards in the league. Dennis Schroder only got 5.9 mil. Lonzo ball dumped around like nothing. Same with Fultz and Westbrook. Toronto could let Lowry walk because we have FVV and Flynn. These guys grow on trees now and can be signed easily in an off season.

God Squad · Post #231 » by **God Squad** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:00 pm

nizaam wrote:
God Squad wrote:I'm telling yall we got non robotic Kawhi (ceiling) or notta donkey Draymond (mid).. or Kyle Anderson on steroids. (Floor)

kawhi is so strong he just bullies guys down low and can get lots of rebounds with his shoulders used for box outs. hes also automatic from 3 and all world finisher at the rim. Not easy to replicate.

I 100% think Barnes can be a bully SF. You're gonna see how big this kids gonna get in a few years lol. It's the shot creation and shot making that's going to be the obstacle. Which is a BIG gap from where he is now and where I'd need him to end up. He's a project and I'm fully aware of this.

God Squad · Post #232 » by **God Squad** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:03 pm

SHFT wrote:Suggs was advertised as being more NBA ready, that we are even having this convo is a good sign for Barnes, who looks less raw than we were led to believe.

Still raw, for sure, but objective higher ceiling makes this easy. We didn't draft for the next year or two. This was a future pick. Suggs will almost certainly have the better rookie season.

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Exactly. I'm fully expecting Suggs to be better out the gate than Barnes. The same way if we got Mobley we'd understand he's a long term project. Suggs, Green and Cade are going to be ready out the gate outta the top, more so green and Suggs I think.

Raps in 4 · Post #233 » by **Raps in 4** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:05 pm

DrCoach wrote:I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

He doesn't need to grow anymore. He's already more than big enough. He needs to work on developing offensive skills.

God Squad · Post #234 » by **God Squad** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:06 pm

nizaam wrote:I guess another thing theres just way too many good point guards in the league. Dennis Schroder only got 5.9 mil. Lonzo ball dumped around like nothing. Same with Fultz and Westbrook. Toronto could let Lowry walk because we have FVV and Flynn. These guys grow on trees now and can be signed easily in an off season.

I like the return we got for Lowry. I'm a believer in precious, and think he'll contribute day one. Yes I would have liked to flip Dragic. But just hold him until trade deadline and flip him to a contender or a team desperate for leadership or shakeup.

Raps in 4 · Post #235 » by **Raps in 4** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:07 pm

nizaam wrote:I guess another thing theres just way too many good point guards in the league. Dennis Schroder only got 5.9 mil. Lonzo ball dumped around like nothing. Same with Fultz and Westbrook. Toronto could let Lowry walk because we have FVV and Flynn. These guys grow on trees now and can be signed easily in an off season.

None of those guys you listed are good PGs, except maybe Lonzo (who's just decent). The list of good PGs really isn't that long:

Steph
Dame
Trae
Lowry
CP3

And all of them except Trae are over 30.

T-d0t · Post #236 » by **T-d0t** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:08 pm

Westside Gunn wrote:What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

2014 - Bruno vs Hood/Capela
2015 - Delon vs Portis
2016 - Poeltl vs Sabonis/Skal & Siakam vs Skal/Davis
2017 - OG was consensus

Young_Buc · Post #237 » by **Young_Buc** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:12 pm

Westside Gunn wrote:What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

Psubs · Post #238 » by **Psubs** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:39 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
DrCoach wrote:I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

He doesn't need to grow anymore. He's already more than big enough. He needs to work on developing offensive skills.

If Barnes grew 2 more inches he'd be a better shooting Giannis.

PoundTown · Post #239 » by **PoundTown** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:54 pm

Psubs wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
DrCoach wrote:I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

He doesn't need to grow anymore. He's already more than big enough. He needs to work on developing offensive skills.

If Barnes grew 2 more inches he'd be a better shooting Giannis.

With the way his body is proportioned and his age, I could see him growing a tad more.

Very coordinated, but at same time has a lot of work to go in terms of improving his footwork when finishing drives. Seems to give you a bit of hope on the jumper from first game. My hope is that he becomes a good spot up shooter. Off the bounce shooting is just a bonus. That little floater the other night on the drive with hesitation was a nice wrinkle to his offensive game as well. A bit more touch than I think we anticipated, and gotta love the vision and unselfishness. At this point, feeling pretty confident he will at least be a good swiss army knife type of player, but seeing how far he can bring his scoring game will determine if he's good to very good role player or a star.

aminiaturebuddha · Post #240 » by **aminiaturebuddha** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:15 pm

I was hoping for Suggs at the time of the draft. Since then, I've come to appreciate the many things that Scottie could add to the team.

I fully expect Suggs to have better counting stats this year, and maybe even next. But the big question will be which one is able to affect winning in a variety of ways a few years into their careers. It'll be interesting to watch counting stats versus advanced stats for the two players this year.

Of course, this question really can't be settled for a few years. I'm mostly going to be looking for steady improvement from Scottie throughout the year, and try not to get caught up in what the "other guy" is doing. I know that's going to be hard though.

Who ya got?