Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[planetmars]

Age and Experience are different.. and we are the 3rd "youngest" team in the league with respect to experience (number of years played in the league). That's pretty young. And that includes Dragic who'll be playing his 14th season. Pascal/Fred have only played in 5 (this will be their 6th).

[Steelo Green]

February 26: Raptors are 17-17, 4th in the conference.

The Celtics 16-17, Heat 16-17, Knicks 16-17, Bulls 15-17, Hornets 15-17, Pacers 16-17, Hawks 14-19.

This was too early in the season to say we were some elite four seed. Dust was far from settled.

[Los_29]

During summer league, just last month, on national TV/ESPN, you watched and heard the leader Fred Van Vleet saying "we were 4th seed until COVID hit us" thus very confident about the level of the team.

So you saw and heard FVV saying that, but many are still out here chatting about tanking/rebuilding. Try to come back to reality a little bit and don't waste time looking at 2022 Mock drafts.

Covid hit every team last year at different times. Plus they lost Lowry a key starter, talent wise they're worst than last year.

We were hit harder by covid than any team in the league.

Lowry is a loss for sure but we also need to remember he missed 30 games and some of the games he did play was without players like Siakam, FVV and OG.

Given the age of our squad, I think it's reasonable to assume that players like Flynn, GTJ, OG and Precious will show improvements from last year. We will also have Birch for the entire year and not sure when or if Dragic gets dealt but if he sticks around until the deadline then Dragic will be an effective guard for us.

It's foolish to use last year as any kind of barometer for how this season will go. The Pascal injury hurts though but if he can come back in mid-late November this team will likely compete for a playoff spot.

[KrazyP]

February 26: Raptors are 17-17, 4th in the conference.

The Celtics 16-17, Heat 16-17, Knicks 16-17, Bulls 15-17, Hornets 15-17, Pacers 16-17, Hawks 14-19.

This was too early in the season to say we were some elite four seed. Dust was far from settled.

Aside from the Hawks, most of those teams lack talent/depth. They should have all tanked.

[ash_k]

February 26: Raptors are 17-17, 4th in the conference.

The Celtics 16-17, Heat 16-17, Knicks 16-17, Bulls 15-17, Hornets 15-17, Pacers 16-17, Hawks 14-19.

This was too early in the season to say we were some elite four seed. Dust was far from settled.

how many of them played nothing but road-games?
The last 3 normal seasons, in the EAST, I believe we have been the best home team. (might be Philly)

[ATLTimekeeper]

According to https://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison, Toronto rates as the 12 youngest team in the NBA just above Boston by a month. If we drop Dragic that number might swing a bit lower.

Lakers, Heat, Brooklyn and Jazz are some of the oldest teams and I would normally say that older teams tend to go the farthest, but injuries have been hitting the NBA hard the past two seasons, and I think the more miles you have on your body the more susceptible you are to injury - so let's see how this plays out.

Are you attempting to dispute that older teams tend to make longer runs in the playoffs? If you look at that list, it sounds about right. It doesn't mean the oldest team will go the furthest, or that young teams can't go far, it means that typically young teams lose more than old teams.

The quote in question has been repeated by Masai twice. In this interview and the previous press conference when he signed his contract. It is a coached statement that allows himself to spin two scenarios at the end of the year: Toronto overacheiving with a less experienced team or, missing the playoffs and giving the youth NBA experience while getting a lotto pick. It is a good hedge.

Sure. This could have been said by anyone, because in fact it is said routinely. It's not even a good hedge. You have to be stupid or gullible to think that your young team is going to be a "now" team. They only say this to keep journalists from lighting them up in the event they do fail.

Where I call it as BS, is earlier the sentiment was, the previous season was an aberration, "blame it on Tampa because Tampa ain't Toronto." We played "82 road games." Well now that we are back in Toronto minus Lowry, suddenly we are a young team that will have growing pains. Siakam, FVV and to some extent OG were all part of a championship team, but now we need to grow.

There's also a few factors here to consider: 1) Dragic may or may not be with the team, and Masai would know that reality more than us right now 2) Lowry is gone, and we won't know what that looks like 3) Siakam will miss a few months off the top and 4) Barnes should get minutes and he's pretty raw. 5) They traded an experienced player in Norm for a younger player carrying the same role in Trent. They shouldn't be held to the same standards of previous Raptor teams. That's obvious. Masai's just putting words to that sentiment.

To me, Masai is using "youth" as a crutch. This team is not talented enough, and the front office has fallen way off since the Championship era in signings, trades, the draft, etc. In a league where shooting from 3 is a premium skill, we drafted non-shooters, signed Khem Birch, traded for Precious Achuiwa while only re-signing Gary Trent Jr., who is a flawed player.

So which shooters should we have drafted? You're arguing we should have taken Bouknight? Mitchell? Kispert? Primo? It would be catastrophic to run the top of the draft prioritizing one premium skill. From what it looks like, they drafted players they hope will add shooting, while also adding: Dekker (45% shooter last year), Mykailiuk (shooter), and signed 3&D prospects in Wainwright/Champagnie. Let's also consider that they permitted Birch to shoot last year, it's likely a skill they intend to develop. Let's also assume they want Achiuwa to eventually spot up from 3, too, as he did that a little in college. Your assertion is that the Raptors don't know that shooting is valuable, or do and don't care. Pretty much everyone shoots or is expected to shoot. The "youth" crutch is just that Masai is reasonable in admitting that it will take time for some of these skills to mature and develop.

Atlanta's turnaround happened in one year because they added premium shooting at every spot while having a defensive anchor in Capela. Toronto lacks a true creator, and it has doubled down on developing players without a strong track record shooting. These growing pains are self-inflicted.

Atlanta? They drafted a non-shooter (Okongwu) with their last lotto pick. Their off-season included Rajon Rondo and Kris Dunn. I don't understand this view at all. Did you want the Raptors to go out and get a Gallo/Bogdanovic combo?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Toronto Raptors last year: 39.3 3PA, 36.8%
Atlanta last year: 33.4 3PA, 37.7%

[Tacoma]

I'm just curious - how many people commenting on here actually listened to the CBC podcast where Masai made this comment?

It seems as though people are making a lot of inferences about what he might have meant from this one quote, but much of that is stuff that didn't come through for me at all based upon the full context of the conversation.

I listened to the interview and the question posed and I think the quote is being interpreted accurately here. Young teams tend to lose, and he's fielded a mostly young team. He's just stating the obvious.

But, this team is likely going to win in the 40s whether he wants them to finish last or not. And that will be a huge momentum boost for the franchise.

According to https://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison, Toronto rates as the 12 youngest team in the NBA just above Boston by a month. If we drop Dragic that number might swing a bit lower.

Lakers, Heat, Brooklyn and Jazz are some of the oldest teams and I would normally say that older teams tend to go the farthest, but injuries have been hitting the NBA hard the past two seasons, and I think the more miles you have on your body the more susceptible you are to injury - so let's see how this plays out.

The quote in question has been repeated by Masai twice. In this interview and the previous press conference when he signed his contract. It is a coached statement that allows himself to spin two scenarios at the end of the year: Toronto overacheiving with a less experienced team or, missing the playoffs and giving the youth NBA experience while getting a lotto pick. It is a good hedge.

Where I call it as BS, is earlier the sentiment was, the previous season was an aberration, "blame it on Tampa because Tampa ain't Toronto." We played "82 road games." Well now that we are back in Toronto minus Lowry, suddenly we are a young team that will have growing pains. Siakam, FVV and to some extent OG were all part of a championship team, but now we need to grow.

To me, Masai is using "youth" as a crutch. This team is not talented enough, and the front office has fallen way off since the Championship era in signings, trades, the draft, etc. In a league where shooting from 3 is a premium skill, we drafted non-shooters, signed Khem Birch, traded for Precious Achuiwa while only re-signing Gary Trent Jr., who is a flawed player.

Atlanta's turnaround happened in one year because they added premium shooting at every spot while having a defensive anchor in Capela. Toronto lacks a true creator, and it has doubled down on developing players without a strong track record shooting. These growing pains are self-inflicted.

I'm not like some on this board who think Masai can do no wrong and have called him out on several occasions in the past from his tendency to over-evaluate in his early days here, to his repeated re-signing of Casey as coach and recently his failure to trade Lowry at the trade deadline.

That said, I'm unclear what you think Masai could've done differently to make our present on court talent that much better? It would be unfair to fault him for not trading away Gasol & Ibaka given we were still in contention in 2020. So all these "talent" left for nothing but I think Masai would've been skewered if he had traded any of them away during our 53-win 2020 season.

I don't think we could've got better talent for Powell. GTJ needs work but what I like about him is his work ethic and determination to get better working his way up the ladder from a deep bench player as a 2nd round pick. I think there's potential.

I did criticized his failure to trade Lowry but then again Achuiwa is not much, if any, worse than anyone that was reportedly offered for Lowry last season. We did take on at $19M contract in Dragic but he's an expiring and he can still be traded.

Yes, we are presently more heavily weighted in non-shooters, but at this point we are in asset accumulation/building mode drafting for best-player-available rather than need. I preferred Suggs over Barnes but if Masai believes Barnes is eventually the better overall talent, then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given his successful judge of talent in the past.

My point is, overall, Masai's moves to obtain talent since 2019 has not been unreasonable, IMO. If you disagree, then please elaborate on what better talent he could've received had he made moves more to your liking?

[Steelo Green]

February 26: Raptors are 17-17, 4th in the conference.

The Celtics 16-17, Heat 16-17, Knicks 16-17, Bulls 15-17, Hornets 15-17, Pacers 16-17, Hawks 14-19.

This was too early in the season to say we were some elite four seed. Dust was far from settled.

Aside from the Hawks, most of those teams lack talent/depth. They should have all tanked.

The Celtics have a superstar caliber player. Their two best are better than anyone on our team. Think they’re more of a build issue than talent one.

Knicks I would agree with but they do have Barrett who could very well make a huge leap. His talent is more than anyone on the team.

Bulls stink yes though they are better. Dunno if it’s that much better but in the hunt for sure.

Pacers are in our category but I think more talent than us. Sabonis, Brogdon, Levert, Turner, Warren (if healthy), is a team that probably has more talent than us.

Hornets are a young team with a budding star in Lamelo.

We were also fourth with Kyle and Norm which for some reason has been valued very little.

Another pick would do this team well but again it will come to fruition this season when no TB excuses exist.

[VanWest82]

Pascal is gong to come back with a reliable jumper. He had to practice a lot to get it where it was in 19 & 20 and then he stopped practicing. Other Raptors who can shoot: Fred, GTJ, OG, Dragic, Flynn?, Boucher. Along with Pascal that's 7. It's not ideal but we do have shooting.

[ATLTimekeeper]

In terms of 3PA, we lose Lowry, but if Dragic plays his 3PA/36 isn't that far off of Lowry's rate. If Mykailiuk plays in his place, his rate is much higher than both. Trent shot at a higher rate than Norm and is likely going to up that. Same with OG and Malachi. There's no reason to think that this team won't spam 3s as always. Scottie and Precious' bricks will remind everyone of Baynes and Stanley/Bembry. They have to be graded over several years, though.

There's no real way to know what the impact of Lowry and Siakam's injury will be. It could be devastating and lead to a gong show, or some guys could step up, which has happened consistently in the past.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

i don't think its all about shooting - its about guys who can consistently and efficiently score in ISO situations and can "get theirs"

can Siakam take that next step. can OG as well. can GTJ. etc

[phanman]

i don't think its all about shooting - its about guys who can consistently and efficiently score in ISO situations and can "get theirs"

can Siakam take that next step. can OG as well. can GTJ. etc

Team will only go as far as Pascal and Fred's development in this area. Will Pascal continue to settle jumpers instead of attacking the paint and can Fred convert at the rim/paint without getting blocked.

[ash_k]

Pascal is gong to come back with a reliable jumper. He had to practice a lot to get it where it was in 19 & 20 and then he stopped practicing. Other Raptors who can shoot: Fred, GTJ, OG, Dragic, Flynn?, Boucher. Along with Pascal that's 7. It's not ideal but we do have shooting.

Our current starting 5 has 3 x40% 3pt shooters. once Flynn adapted he turned into a 40% 3pt in the last couple of months. . Pre-All star Boucher was a 40% 3pt shooter (~40 games). Svi looks like another potential 40% 3pt shooter. We dont know about Dragic status yet.

That's like 6(7) key players providing that 40% 3pt shooting. That's a lot

[vulture]

February 26: Raptors are 17-17, 4th in the conference.

The Celtics 16-17, Heat 16-17, Knicks 16-17, Bulls 15-17, Hornets 15-17, Pacers 16-17, Hawks 14-19.

This was too early in the season to say we were some elite four seed. Dust was far from settled.

Aside from the Hawks, most of those teams lack talent/depth. They should have all tanked.

The Celtics have a superstar caliber player. Their two best are better than anyone on our team. Think they’re more of a build issue than talent one.

Knicks I would agree with but they do have Barrett who could very well make a huge leap. His talent is more than anyone on the team.

Bulls stink yes though they are better. Dunno if it’s that much better but in the hunt for sure.

Pacers are in our category but I think more talent than us. Sabonis, Brogdon, Levert, Turner, Warren (if healthy), is a team that probably has more talent than us.

Hornets are a young team with a budding star in Lamelo.

We were also fourth with Kyle and Norm which for some reason has been valued very little.

Another pick would do this team well but again it will come to fruition this season when no TB excuses exist.

this is super negative, but I'm not surprised it's coming from you. come one man RJ Barrett is not better than Siakam, OG or Fred.
I do hope we get another lottery pick, but this team is too well coached and organized to tank again.

[720]

Aside from the Hawks, most of those teams lack talent/depth. They should have all tanked.

The Celtics have a superstar caliber player. Their two best are better than anyone on our team. Think they’re more of a build issue than talent one.

Knicks I would agree with but they do have Barrett who could very well make a huge leap. His talent is more than anyone on the team.

Bulls stink yes though they are better. Dunno if it’s that much better but in the hunt for sure.

Pacers are in our category but I think more talent than us. Sabonis, Brogdon, Levert, Turner, Warren (if healthy), is a team that probably has more talent than us.

Hornets are a young team with a budding star in Lamelo.

We were also fourth with Kyle and Norm which for some reason has been valued very little.

Another pick would do this team well but again it will come to fruition this season when no TB excuses exist.

this is super negative, but I'm not surprised it's coming from you. come one man RJ Barrett is not better than Siakam, OG or Fred.
I do hope we get another lottery pick, but this team is too well coached and organized to tank again.

This is hilarious. Like I get it, maybe they don't suck too much and they end up winning 40 games and get a low seed like you are suggesting. But to just assume after losing Lowry and going young it's some how guaranteed that we'll make the playoffs is wrong imo.

[DreamTeam09]

The east is stacked, and outside of the top 3, whatever 3 u'd like to put up there, the rest of teams are all in the same boat if you ask me.

Any team can realistically fall newhere once u r past Milwaukee and BK.

You guys just like/afraid of big names and don't see Toronto with any big names. Well look at some of the big names just in the east

Simmons - about to be traded
Embiid - Health and consistency issues
James Harden - has more subpar 40% shooting series than DeMar does. DeMar n Westbrook combined I think
Kyrie - health
Brown n Tatum - Last time we played them in the playoffs it was Marcus smart and Robert Williams who won then the series...

We'll see how the season plays out, a lot of y'all are overhyping offensive firepower / BIG NAMES and downplaying defense

[vulture]

The Celtics have a superstar caliber player. Their two best are better than anyone on our team. Think they’re more of a build issue than talent one.

Knicks I would agree with but they do have Barrett who could very well make a huge leap. His talent is more than anyone on the team.

Bulls stink yes though they are better. Dunno if it’s that much better but in the hunt for sure.

Pacers are in our category but I think more talent than us. Sabonis, Brogdon, Levert, Turner, Warren (if healthy), is a team that probably has more talent than us.

Hornets are a young team with a budding star in Lamelo.

We were also fourth with Kyle and Norm which for some reason has been valued very little.

Another pick would do this team well but again it will come to fruition this season when no TB excuses exist.

this is super negative, but I'm not surprised it's coming from you. come one man RJ Barrett is not better than Siakam, OG or Fred.
I do hope we get another lottery pick, but this team is too well coached and organized to tank again.

This is hilarious. Like I get it, maybe they don't suck too much and they end up winning 40 games and get a low seed like you are suggesting. But to just assume after losing Lowry and going young it's some how guaranteed that we'll make the playoffs is wrong imo.

I didn't say it's guaranteed that they will be in the playoffs and I've maintained that this is a play-in team, but we ain't never bottoming out like some people want.

[ciueli]

GTJ was very good in Portland the last ~80 games since he became a regular rotation piece for them (14 PPG on 57 TS%), but he was also mostly very good for us when he had 2+ starters alongside him. 31 points on 12/22 shooting, 24 points on 8/14 shooting, 16 points on 7/15 shooting + buzzer beater, 23 points on 9/17 shooting, etc. Then obviously he had that 44-point night on 17/19 shooting when he was lights out playing alongside OG and scrubs against Cleveland.

People really need to stop looking at GTJ's overall numbers with us in 17 games then bringing up his Portland numbers and deducing that he was only good because of Lillard+McCollum.

Here are Trent's game logs for last season: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/trentga02/gamelog/2021

The thing to notice is that with Toronto, nearly all his 20PPG+ games came against mediocre or flat out bad teams.

2021-03-31, 31 points against OKC (no SGA or Horford, Fred + Pascal played heavy minutes)
2021-04-02, 24 points against GSW (no Stephen Curry or Draymond Green).
2021-04-10, 44 points against CLE (no Jarett Allen or Larry Nance Jr., Dean Wade played 35 minutes).
2021-04-11, 23 points against NYK (Kyle + Pascal played heavy minutes)
2021-04-18, 23 points against OKC (no SGA or Horford, 23 points on 25 shots is pretty bad).
2021-05-06, 25 points against WAS (Fred + Pascal played heavy minutes)

Throw in 2021-04-05, 16 points against WAS and we get 7 out of 17 games he had decent scoring numbers, 4 of those against non-playoff teams missing multiple top players.

On the other hand, a quick glance through his Portland games shows he had good performances against a number of top playoff teams including the Lakers, Suns, Sixers, and Hawks. It certainly looks as though he works best when he has other shot creators or scorers like Lillard and McCollum to play off, I don't know how it's going to work when the starting 1, 2, and 3 really just want to spot up from 3 and aren't good at manufacturing offense for others.

[720]

this is super negative, but I'm not surprised it's coming from you. come one man RJ Barrett is not better than Siakam, OG or Fred.
I do hope we get another lottery pick, but this team is too well coached and organized to tank again.

This is hilarious. Like I get it, maybe they don't suck too much and they end up winning 40 games and get a low seed like you are suggesting. But to just assume after losing Lowry and going young it's some how guaranteed that we'll make the playoffs is wrong imo.

I didn't say it's guaranteed that they will be in the playoffs and I've maintained that this is a play-in team, but we ain't never bottoming out like some people want.

Most of us here are saying the team isn't good enough to go over the 37 win total o/u it's not about bottoming out or trading everyone. Talent will dictated the direction of this team.

It's hard to predict which is why people on both sides are making half measure predictions like 'I think they'll win 45+ or be really bad', no one wants to go out on a limb. We'll get a better idea a month into the season.