Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[Young Moosehead]

I guess 13 game Bargnani was goat level.

13 game Bargnani? 23.5/6.4/2.1 per game, 13 game Bargnani?

Pascal has been averaging better stats than 13 game Bargnani since year 4.

This is not a 13 game sample size either, Pascal has put up:

25.6/9.6/7.9 Per game in 8 games so far this year
22.8/7.2/5.8/1/1.2 Per game in 6 playoff games last year
28.4/10.5/6.6 Per game in 6 games April last year
25.9/8.1/5.3 Per game in 16 games in March last year

A 36 game sample size, and the numbers are way better than Bargs. Counting all games including playoffs from the beginning of March to now. That is half a season worth of games with MVP type numbers.

[JB7]

Finally, your argument about his stats being a result of him being thrust in a point forward role can be said of just about any star player. They all have the ball in their hands a lot more and teammates look for them to create. It’s not like you can put anyone in pascals shoes and they’ll be able to do what he does. You need to be a very skilled multidimensional player.

That is very true. He is doing at his size and skill level, what many in the NBA cannot do. He is definitely proving he is a star player, to be considered as such with other star players in the game.

But I guess the question, which is posed by this thread is can he now take that size and skill, and elevate to a level only a very few in the league can attain - win championships as the #1 option playing that role (e.g. Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis).

[Marty_Budda]

Finally, your argument about his stats being a result of him being thrust in a point forward role can be said of just about any star player. They all have the ball in their hands a lot more and teammates look for them to create. It’s not like you can put anyone in pascals shoes and they’ll be able to do what he does. You need to be a very skilled multidimensional player.

That is very true. He is doing at his size and skill level, what many in the NBA cannot do. He is definitely proving he is a star player, to be considered as such with other star players in the game.

But I guess the question, which is posed by this thread is can he now take that size and skill, and elevate to a level only a very few in the league can attain - win championships as the #1 option playing that role (e.g. Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis).

That’s honestly a very tough ask. There’s maybe 6 or 7 true number one options in the league and they’re all generational talents.

I just think considering where pascal has come from to be even on the level of guys like Paul George, Jimmy butler, Anthony Davis etc. who are just below the top 6 or 7 guys is an incredible accomplishment. I don’t think you can win a championship with 1 pascal Siakam, but I definitely think you can win it with 2. So if Scottie becomes as good as Siakam and Siakam doesn’t drop off, I see us as a legit contender.

[Dalek]

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

[kanersen]

Picked this nice tidbit from the Maxey thread in the general forum.



Our boy literally head and shoulders above everyone minus Luka and Kyrie (he's just a head above these 2) at team scoring efficiency per possession when a player is double teamed.... while getting double teamed.....alot.

Supermax this man.

[bape_lovers]

He got a game winner against the suns when Kawhi was here..if we were in clipper situation going wire to wire with OKC..the whole board will have a melt down

Watch on YouTube

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

[LoveMyRaps]

He got a game winner against the suns when Kawhi was here..if we were in clipper situation going wire to wire with OKC..the whole board will have a melt down

Watch on YouTube

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

I predict he's gonna hit a game winner by the end of the month.

[Parataxis]

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

Okay, but consider this - when your volume of shots go up, for an average player, their shooting percentages go down. They're not just taking MORE shots, but they're taking HARDER shots. They're getting the shots that nobody else on the team is willing/able to take. They're getting more defensive attention. It's supposed to be harder.

Keeping your % consistent as your usage goes up is a VERY good thing.

[Dalek]

He got a game winner against the suns when Kawhi was here..if we were in clipper situation going wire to wire with OKC..the whole board will have a melt down

Watch on YouTube

OKC has a dangerous team, just like any of the young teams that have amassed so much draft talent. They aren't getting into the playoffs, but they are competitive. But yes, the board would probably go nuts if we were losing to OKC like the Clips were.

You can see the difference between what Pascal did against the Suns versus what PG and Luka did. Pascal is dynamite as straight-line driver going into contact and finishing. It usually works out but he also does take a lot of contact with that approach and he rarely gets the benefit of the whistle in late game calls like this.

He just does not have the pull-up/fadeaway game of a star scorer. It is the hallmark of MJ, Kobe, LBJ, Luke, Kawhi etc. He has the early makings of that type of game, but he is no assassin at this stage. That is where I would like to see the growth. Even yesterday he had some wild airballs on threes that were not strict catch and shoot. I know no player is perfect, but you got to have a deep bag if you want to be MVP.

[Slade3]

I guess 13 game Bargnani was goat level.

13 game Bargnani? 23.5/6.4/2.1 per game, 13 game Bargnani?

Pascal has been averaging better stats than 13 game Bargnani since year 4.

This is not a 13 game sample size either, Pascal has put up:

25.6/9.6/7.9 Per game in 8 games so far this year
22.8/7.2/5.8/1/1.2 Per game in 6 playoff games last year
28.4/10.5/6.6 Per game in 6 games April last year
25.9/8.1/5.3 Per game in 16 games in March last year

A 36 game sample size, and the numbers are way better than Bargs. Counting all games including playoffs from the beginning of March to now. That is half a season worth of games with MVP type numbers.

No, I meant Bargnani is at an actual goat level.

[Marty_Budda]

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

In that Paul George clip, he got bodied by a washed up Eric Gordon who was never an elite defender anyways. Fair play he hit a tough shot but it never should’ve been that tough to begin with.

Pascal would’ve probably posted Gordon up and gotten an easier shot for himself.

Paul george is averaging 22.6 pts 6.6reb 4.7 apg this year on worse efficiency than pascal.

Since January of last year which is close to a 60 game sample size, pascal is averaging 25/8/7. Paul George has never put up stats like that in his life.

[Young Moosehead]

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

Those are some good individual plays, but a lot of sizzle with no steak. His team is 4-4. His only wins are against the Lakers, Rockets (x2),and Kings. Two of those 4 wins were by 2, against absolute bottom feeders. If we were 4-4 off of the cupcake schedule the Clippers have, there would be a board wide melt down, and there would be a lot of talk about empty stats.

Also, despite all of those heroics, PG lost to the Thunder twice in the last 10 days.

[Young Moosehead]

I guess 13 game Bargnani was goat level.

13 game Bargnani? 23.5/6.4/2.1 per game, 13 game Bargnani?

Pascal has been averaging better stats than 13 game Bargnani since year 4.

This is not a 13 game sample size either, Pascal has put up:

25.6/9.6/7.9 Per game in 8 games so far this year
22.8/7.2/5.8/1/1.2 Per game in 6 playoff games last year
28.4/10.5/6.6 Per game in 6 games April last year
25.9/8.1/5.3 Per game in 16 games in March last year

A 36 game sample size, and the numbers are way better than Bargs. Counting all games including playoffs from the beginning of March to now. That is half a season worth of games with MVP type numbers.

No, I meant Bargnani is at an actual goat level.

My mistake, do you mean like Angora Bargnani here?

[Dalek]

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

Those are some good individual plays, but a lot of sizzle with no steak. His team is 4-4. His only wins are against the Lakers, Rockets (x2),and Kings. Two of those 4 wins were by 2, against absolute bottom feeders. If we were 4-4 off of the cupcake schedule the Clippers have, there would be a board wide melt down, and there would be a lot of talk about empty stats.

Also, despite all of those heroics, PG lost to the Thunder twice in the last 10 days.

Clips are disappointing, but I think the Kawhi injury/issue is hanging over them at this point. That said, the point was more about the skill in shot creation and ability to close in tight games.

I am in the camp that Pascal can be an MVP, and have posted about it over the summer, but I think we have to realize he still has to grow his game a bit more or at least prove himself in the clutch as the go-to guy.

[canada_dry]

Blurb from espns power rankings:

Pascal Siakam has played as well as anyone to start this season. Averaging 26.1 points, 9.6 rebounds and 7.4 assists -- all of which would be career highs --- Siakam has helped Toronto go 4-3 through a brutal opening stretch full of playoff contenders.



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[canada_dry]

Siakam has been this way since the team inserted him into the point forward role, which works to his strengths, but also benefits him greatly in terms of his stats, as he is put in the best possible situation to score (he is making the choice of whether to attack or dish off the ball). Also with his hunting of rebounds, assists and points, is this beginning to feel Westbrook-ish in terms of his constant pursuit of the numbers?

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

Siakam does it on solid efficiency and very good defense, which is the opposite of Westbrook.

Yes, Siakam is much more efficient, and a much better shooter than Westbrook, but Westbrook was considered an elite defender.

I guess the question is ultimately, can Siakam do what he is doing against great teams in high pressure (playoffs) situations?

I still think it is a sell high moment with PS, as his value seems to be going through the roof. If they could turn PS into Durant without giving up a lot of young players and future draft picks, I would do that deal in a heart beat.

Westbrook was never considered an elite defender. He was considered a good one that was prone to mental errors(just like on offense) earlier in his career.

He stopped playing defense around 2015. CERTAINLY by the time of his mvp season in 2017.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[canada_dry]

These games have been great from a pure statical perspective. You could look at and put Siakam in the early MVP conversation.

But, to me, the true MVP level is determinate by how these guys operate in tight games. How many baskets is this person making with less than two minutes left? What is the degree of difficulty? How many gamewinning baskets? To me, you have to be able to get a bucket in the clutch situations, and we haven't seen enough of that from Pascal at this stage.

I watched Paul George literally will his team back from a decent deficit against OKC earlier in the week. Look at how tough and physical this end of game possession was:

Read on Twitter

An older one from Luka, but shots like this make MVPs:

Read on Twitter

Pascal doesn't have that type of shotmaking, or at least I haven't seen it yet.

He hit the clinching bucket this season to give the cavs their only loss of the season. A very kobe-esque fadeaway despite not shooting well that game.

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[canada_dry]

Finally, your argument about his stats being a result of him being thrust in a point forward role can be said of just about any star player. They all have the ball in their hands a lot more and teammates look for them to create. It’s not like you can put anyone in pascals shoes and they’ll be able to do what he does. You need to be a very skilled multidimensional player.

That is very true. He is doing at his size and skill level, what many in the NBA cannot do. He is definitely proving he is a star player, to be considered as such with other star players in the game.

But I guess the question, which is posed by this thread is can he now take that size and skill, and elevate to a level only a very few in the league can attain - win championships as the #1 option playing that role (e.g. Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis).

His chances of that happening increases a lot if you give him another player on his tier to play with. Doesn't have to be better, just another top 20 type guy.

Without that NOONE does it. Not even KD.

Speaking of KD...maybe its him if the nets decide to blow it up. Siakam would probably be #2, but so be it.

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[OakleyDokely]

Siakam starting to get those star calls?

Read on Twitter

[JB7]

Finally, your argument about his stats being a result of him being thrust in a point forward role can be said of just about any star player. They all have the ball in their hands a lot more and teammates look for them to create. It’s not like you can put anyone in pascals shoes and they’ll be able to do what he does. You need to be a very skilled multidimensional player.

That is very true. He is doing at his size and skill level, what many in the NBA cannot do. He is definitely proving he is a star player, to be considered as such with other star players in the game.

But I guess the question, which is posed by this thread is can he now take that size and skill, and elevate to a level only a very few in the league can attain - win championships as the #1 option playing that role (e.g. Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis).

His chances of that happening increases a lot if you give him another player on his tier to play with. Doesn't have to be better, just another top 20 type guy.

Without that NOONE does it. Not even KD.

Speaking of KD...maybe its him if the nets decide to blow it up. Siakam would probably be #2, but so be it.

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You could argue Curry won last year without another top 20 player, same for Kawhi with the Raps, and even Giannis. I think with the parity in the league, it may become more common.

If the Raps swapped out PS and GTJ for KD, I think they they would be a title contender.

Kawhi showed it in his one year here, what a difference it is to a team having a player that can be almost unstoppable in getting a bucket. Makes everyone around them better, because of the open looks their dominance creates.