Masai messed up but deserves another chance

[Merit]

I don't think Masai drafted Lowry, did he? He also didn't draft Demar Derozan, Terence Ross and JV. That's a lot of talent that he's not responsible for.

Only one of those players were on our championship team. He acquired Gasol, Kawhi, FVV, Norm, Ibaka, Pascal, OG and Green.

So yeah, not a great example there.

Lol, Did Gasol & Kawhi come out of thin air, without JV and DD? And did we get Ibaka without Terence Ross?

You are twisting truth to disparage other GMs to prop up Masai now?

Not sure that’s the case. BC left Masai with talent, AND Masai’s decisions on what to do with that talent resulted in the championship. Both realities can coexist.

Lowry hat tips Masai for his growth into the Raptor GOAT.

Masai’s drafting of the bench mob is legendary. OG/Pascal/Fred all out of the lottery is exceptional. Period.

[deck]

As an aside, if you compare the arc of both Ujiri and Tim Connelly over the past 5 years, there would be valid supporting evidence to suggest that Connelly has been the more astute in assembling a viably competitive roster (installed the foundation of the Nuggets that Booth has been the beneficiary and for supervising the current personnel constitution on the Wolves).

Ujiri's enjoyed the results of unintended random happenstance (e.g. Dolan negating the Lowry trade).

I don’t think Connelly drafted Anthony Edwards, did he? He also didn’t draft Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid and KAT. That’s a lot of talent that he’s not responsible for.

I don't think Masai drafted Lowry, did he? He also didn't draft Demar Derozan, Terence Ross and JV. That's a lot of talent that he's not responsible for.

I would take the current roster over what Masai inherited when he took the job in 2013/2014. If one believes the current roster is better or equal to the team he inherited from Colangelo, then Masai at his lowest point is still doing better than the best roster Colangelo ever fielded.

[DelAbbot]

I don’t think Connelly drafted Anthony Edwards, did he? He also didn’t draft Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid and KAT. That’s a lot of talent that he’s not responsible for.

I don't think Masai drafted Lowry, did he? He also didn't draft Demar Derozan, Terence Ross and JV. That's a lot of talent that he's not responsible for.

I would take the current roster over what Masai inherited when he took the job in 2013/2014. If one believes the current roster is better or equal to the team he inherited from Colangelo, then Masai at his lowest point is still doing better than the best roster Colangelo ever fielded.

Current roster is not even close to the one Masai inherited

[BBS22]

Unironically, tearing it down is the easiest part of the rebuild, which Masai fumbled. But we've crossed that bridge.

[raincityraptors]

I am apathetic about the front office these days. Keep them or replace them, I just don't know what is better.

I don't know who out there is a good replacement but when this front office is doing things that even the fans and media can see are going to bite us in the butt, it's not a good look.

I don't trust in Masai anymore. This offseason will be telling.

[Scase]

As an aside, if you compare the arc of both Ujiri and Tim Connelly over the past 5 years, there would be valid supporting evidence to suggest that Connelly has been the more astute in assembling a viably competitive roster (installed the foundation of the Nuggets that Booth has been the beneficiary and for supervising the current personnel constitution on the Wolves).

Ujiri's enjoyed the results of unintended random happenstance (e.g. Dolan negating the Lowry trade).

And Connelly didn't enjoy the unintended random happenstance of Jokic turning into the quasi-GOAT? If that happens to our 47th pick we'll look pretty smart too.

Not random, extremely low chance. You can't take away the credit of them drafting him, cause you know people here wouldn't stfu about it if our FO did the same.

I will say obviously a ton of luck was involved, but hey he was in charge when they drafted him, so he gets the credit.

[disoblige]

Some people are hypocrites and don’t even follow their own words. They have been taking away the credit of Masai in this whole thread for acquiring Barnes, Siakam, Fred, OG, etc. by placing restrictions (“aside from Barnes,"  “in 4 years,” and more) and then saying, “You can’t take away the credit of drafting <<player>>” to other GMs.

[deck]

I don't think Masai drafted Lowry, did he? He also didn't draft Demar Derozan, Terence Ross and JV. That's a lot of talent that he's not responsible for.

I would take the current roster over what Masai inherited when he took the job in 2013/2014. If one believes the current roster is better or equal to the team he inherited from Colangelo, then Masai at his lowest point is still doing better than the best roster Colangelo ever fielded.

Current roster is not even close to the one Masai inherited

Not even close? Hard to take you seriously when that is your assessment.

The top 5 players we have right now are clearly better than the point in time top 5 Masai inherited. The 2012 / 2013 team had a better bench, but I would still far rather have our current roster than the 2012 / 2013 roster.

And regardless, the point stands. The 2012 / 2013 roster was one of the best Colangelo was ever able to field. Masai has clearly under performed the past 3-4 years, and still we have a roster that is at least comparable to the best roster Colangelo ever put together.

[disoblige]

I would take the current roster over what Masai inherited when he took the job in 2013/2014. If one believes the current roster is better or equal to the team he inherited from Colangelo, then Masai at his lowest point is still doing better than the best roster Colangelo ever fielded.

Current roster is not even close to the one Masai inherited

Not even close? Hard to take you seriously when that is your assessment.

The top 5 players we have right now are clearly better than the point in time top 5 Masai inherited. The 2012 / 2013 team had a better bench, but I would still far rather have our current roster than the 2012 / 2013 roster.

And regardless, the point stands. The 2012 / 2013 roster was one of the best Colangelo was ever able to field. Masai has clearly under performed the past 3-4 years, and still we have a roster that is at least comparable to the best roster Colangelo ever put together.

Our old pre-Masai rosters were highly imbalanced.

I think the difference between him and other former GMs was the culture change. People, GMs, and analysts think the point of basketball is to outscore their opponents. The moment he became GM, he emphasized defense, drafted Siakam and OG, and got defensive players. Preventing opponents from scoring is AS important as their team's scoring. We traded Bargnani, Rudy Gay, etc., and we became a top team in the East. We got better through subtraction.

[WaltFrazier]

San Antonio is a small market, what was the advantage to the league there?

No idea. Marketing is bigger than just size. Toronto is pretty big but I wouldn't ever be confident that they would win the lottery in a draft considered to have an upper tier player like Victor.

I’d argue that it’s player development within an organization who’s been there/done that twice before (Duncan/Robinson).

We're talking about the league rigging the draft to steer a generational pick to a certain team. If you really think it's rigged, not random, is player development really the criteria they would use?

[Merit]

No idea. Marketing is bigger than just size. Toronto is pretty big but I wouldn't ever be confident that they would win the lottery in a draft considered to have an upper tier player like Victor.

I’d argue that it’s player development within an organization who’s been there/done that twice before (Duncan/Robinson).

We're talking about the league rigging the draft to steer a generational pick to a certain team. If you really think it's rigged, not random, is player development really the criteria they would use?

I don’t think the draft is rigged. I do think Wemby to the spurs is a solid fit.

[bballsparkin]

We're talking about the league rigging the draft to steer a generational pick to a certain team. If you really think it's rigged, not random, is player development really the criteria they would use?

First time I noticed Wemby I thought, "now there's a Spur if I ever seen one". Not since TD or the Admiral anyway. Bedard in Chicago. What a fit. But then again Edmonton winning 4 times straight doesn't match up. Hockey is different though. NBA team plus a star equals actuaries saying thumbs up. This is a conversation that should not need to go beyond 3 exchanges.

Exchange 1-
A: NBA is rigged
B: No it isn't, that's crazy.
A: Sure is.

Exchange 2:
A: NBA is rigged
B: Totally

That's as about as productive that can be achieved discussing it.

[youngRAPZ]

The moment Masai moves on all the usual suspects in this thread will just start blaming Scottie and new management. This is what they do. They love to read their own complaints must be why the repost the same garbage in every new thread that pops up. “Omg I’m so angry Masai didn’t do what I wanted!”

[djsunyc]

As an aside, if you compare the arc of both Ujiri and Tim Connelly over the past 5 years, there would be valid supporting evidence to suggest that Connelly has been the more astute in assembling a viably competitive roster (installed the foundation of the Nuggets that Booth has been the beneficiary and for supervising the current personnel constitution on the Wolves).

Ujiri's enjoyed the results of unintended random happenstance (e.g. Dolan negating the Lowry trade).

this is an interesting post b/c you brought up ujiri's random happenstance.

connelly's job in minny already started at the 10 yard line b/c he had ant/kat/jaden all on the roster already when he joined up. the team was also in the playoffs the year before he joined.

[bluerap23]

Only one of those players were on our championship team. He acquired Gasol, Kawhi, FVV, Norm, Ibaka, Pascal, OG and Green.

So yeah, not a great example there.

Lol, Did Gasol & Kawhi come out of thin air, without JV and DD? And did we get Ibaka without Terence Ross?

You are twisting truth to disparage other GMs to prop up Masai now?

Not sure that’s the case. BC left Masai with talent, AND Masai’s decisions on what to do with that talent resulted in the championship. Both realities can coexist.

Lowry hat tips Masai for his growth into the Raptor GOAT.

Masai’s drafting of the bench mob is legendary. OG/Pascal/Fred all out of the lottery is exceptional. Period.

BC wasn't the worst GM. He did some good things to lay a foundation. He was the opposite of Masai on the patience meter though. Constantly making moves that lead us in circles.

Masai built a championship team. He held off the rebuild too long for sure, but has also gotten things back on track pretty quickly since making the decision.

I'm psyched for the new BBQ era. It is going to take time, but I'm really happy to see the next path unfold with this management.

[djsunyc]

Masai built a championship team. He held off the rebuild too long for sure, but has also gotten things back on track pretty quickly since making the decision.

I'm psyched for the new BBQ era. It is going to take time, but I'm really happy to see the next path unfold with this management.

this is pretty much where i'm at too. midway through the 23/24 season, masai said "ok, time to change it all up" so to me, we are back to ground zero with how this team is going to be built going forward. everything that happened from 2021-summer of 2023 was under a different objective - now we have a new direction. some things are going to work and some things aren't. it's fluid - guys that are here now may not be here 2 seasons from now. it's a work in progress.

[Los_29]

I don't think Masai drafted Lowry, did he? He also didn't draft Demar Derozan, Terence Ross and JV. That's a lot of talent that he's not responsible for.

Only one of those players were on our championship team. He acquired Gasol, Kawhi, FVV, Norm, Ibaka, Pascal, OG and Green.

So yeah, not a great example there.

Lol, Did Gasol & Kawhi come out of thin air, without JV and DD? And did we get Ibaka without Terence Ross?

You are twisting truth to disparage other GMs to prop up Masai now?

You seem to be having a lot of trouble comprehending the post that I originally responded to. Connelly is working with a team that he didn’t build. Only added 1-2 pieces. Kind of like the Alex Anthopolous of basketball.

Masai won a championship with pieces that he drafted, developed and acquired aside from Lowry. It was Masai’s team. That team would have been possible had he not drafted so well.

And are we seriously going to pretend that JV and Ross were good assets? Three teams have now given up on JV. Ross was a bench player on a bad team. The Grizzlies and and Magic didn’t make those trades for JV and Ross.

[bluerap23]

Masai built a championship team. He held off the rebuild too long for sure, but has also gotten things back on track pretty quickly since making the decision.

I'm psyched for the new BBQ era. It is going to take time, but I'm really happy to see the next path unfold with this management.

this is pretty much where i'm at too. midway through the 23/24 season, masai said "ok, time to change it all up" so to me, we are back to ground zero with how this team is going to be built going forward. everything that happened from 2021-summer of 2023 was under a different objective - now we have a new direction. some things are going to work and some things aren't. it's fluid - guys that are here now may not be here 2 seasons from now. it's a work in progress.

Yup. Will also be fun to see him build a team from the ground up for the first time.