RJ Barrett is Criminally Underrated

[tsherkin]

This is the part I don’t think people are thinking about enough when speaking about RJ this upcoming season. Beyond him being able to be parked in the corner more, he will be much lower in the pecking order which I actually think will be good for him and his skill set. Last season he was asked to be the number 1 or 2 option a lot because of all the injuries, which hurt his percentages. Even more so when Scottie is your number 1 option because he struggled offensively last season so he wasn’t even a good number 1. As the number 3 or 4 option he can stick to cutting, taking 3s from the corner mostly, driving off curls and movement, attacking close outs and scoring in transitions. All things he’s good at and can do. He isn’t this ball dominant player people think he is. He is much better as an off ball player who usage is very specific and tailored to what he’s good at. Eliminating for the most part the things he isn’t. The thing he really has to get better at is the free throw shooting bc he actually gets to the line a decent amount.

Yeah. If he can get back to even 70% from the FT line and smash most of his 3PA from the corner, that'll help a lot. If we can drop his volume away from the rim (and overall, in the process), we can see if we can emulate what he was doing for us right after the trade. If he basically doesn't shoot but for 3s and shots in the RA, there's a chance we can make him a reasonably efficient mid/high teens scorer. He'll break apart against higher-order defenses, but that's a problem for another day.

[mihaic]

Biggest issue with RJ is his contract. If he was making ~$12-15M and doesn't mind coming off the bench, he would be a pretty good piece to have.

12m is totally unrealistic for RJ, imo. He's a perfect 6th man.

Iq's contract is much worse. Unless he turns it around he'll be at best filler in a trade. Noone wants his 32m contact. The reason RJ is in trade talks is probably because noone wants IQ.

I hope Bobby stops handcuffing us with these overpays like the IQ contract, now that Masai is gone.

RJ's salary represents ~18% of the cap (17.9% this year, 17.4% next year). I think that is quite reasonable for a starter with his usage. As you said, $12M is completely unrealistic—that's less than the non-taxpayer MLE.

As far as IQ, what contract do you think would have been more appropriate?

I think the Raptors actually appear very strategic with contracts for guys like IQ, who they see in a starter role and presumably think will continue to improve. In these cases they opt for flat contracts with no raises so what might seem like an overpay this year becomes more reasonable or even an underpay moving forward. Specifically, IQ's salary represents 21% of the cap this year and declines to 19.1%, 17.4%, and 15.8% (based on cap projections).

The issue with RJ is how his salary fits into the team's salary cap moving forward given his game. It probably doesn't in which case it wouldn't hurt to move him for pieces that might make more sense in terms of both skills and salary.

For me, you we should pay south of 25m for a starter that is not allstar allnba material. So that applies to RJ and IQ as well. But 12m which was hinted in the post I quoted is not realistic, the player simply leaves.

As for IQ he did not justify yet the amount we invested in him. He looks good when he hits the 3, but in games he doesn't he drags the team down. He lacks moves to get to the basket like RJ does, and that makes people guard him tightly so his off the drible 3 is contested. He is not that good a defender, strong guards bully him or shoot over, not much better than RJ imo, at least RJ is taller and can bully IQ type of guards.

Perhaps for IQ it's all due to injuries, which is why I keep saying I hope he turns it around.

[mihaic]

I do agree that RJ is underrated, but he has some visible flaws therefore its required that a coach makes him play within his skill set.

RJ's FT shooting a big concern. His form is not horrible, but he misses a ton of free throws. This could be a mental pressure issue and that is a big problem, cause as a guard you need to hit your FTs.

RJ's forces up a lot of bad shots. RJ's FG could easily be 10% higher if he focused on his corner spot up 3s and slashing game. His mid-range shooting game is actually not that good. He tends to miss a ton of easy shots within 8-10 feet.

Rj's right hand is clearly weaker. When he goes right his finishing and speed is all slower.

With this being said,

RJ has one of the stronger slashing Euro step games in the league. He is pretty deadly with that move.

RJ has the athleticism to run on the fast break and more than enough speed and power to get easy baskets.

Also, i think should be noted, last season was kind of an anomaly. Half of the starters were in and out of the lineup due to injury last season. RJ was playing 1 - 2 option, when he's probably better suited for option 3. BI will likely be option 1, Scotty 2, and RJ or quick option 3. Also, that being said RJ will likely be in that corner position (in which he shoots a higher 3PT%) more often now, as he's not the option 1-2 he was playing last year.

I think he should be ahead of Scottie or level as offense option. People complaining about RJ efficiency, but the eye test tells me he creates for himself better than Scottie. For me they are both option 2.5.

[HumbleRen]

Not a good shooter, not a good finisher.

Non existent mid range game. Very good at volume driving, good at drawing FT’s, mediocre at making FT’s and is a negative defender.

He’s underrated on bad teams, he’s someone you want to replace on good teams. He’ll be a great 6th man for someone when he eventually accepts his best role on a contender is coming off the bench. Would be great if that’s with us but I reckon he’ll be in his late 20’s when he finally realizes that.

[djsunyc]

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[GLF]

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Great video

[TakeYourHeart]

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People really do not appreciate what losing RJ's driving game and indomitable will to get downhill will do to our offence.

[tsherkin]

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People really do not appreciate what losing RJ's driving game and indomitable will to get downhill will do to our offence.

He is our rim pressure, at the moment. He is the only guy who gets into the RA with any frequency, and is basically our only foul pressure other than rolling bigs, too. Him and Quick, but RJ more so, for sure.

[Westside Gunn]

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Not surprising. He played PG before becoming an NBA player

This takes the pressure off Quickley to be a pure playmaking PG, while allowing RJ and BI to create, further diversifying the offense making it unpredictable.

[tsherkin]

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Barrett scored 0.86 PPP out of PnR sets as a ball handler this past season, which was not good. It was, in fact, outside of the top 160 guys in the league. He also wasn't top-50 in possession volume for PnR sets, either. Playmaking is pretty solid. His individual scoring was, of course, pretty rough in the main because he finished so poorly in close.

He does seem to READ the PnR pretty well to get to the bucket, though, and coupled to his passing, that makes him interesting in that regard, for sure.

[OhCanada]

Yeah its crazy. I've been following RJ since he was a young kid. I remember Rowan Barrett on NBA TV talking about his son. He was already a star before he even went to Montverde, thats very tough for a HS player. Alot of players fail to improve but he continued to develop. Dominated every single level went to the pros and continues to improve. Canadian born player, always suits up for Canada, playing for his hometown, 24 years old, averaged 20, 5 and 5 and the Canadian fans all want to trade him. For John Collins? Micheal Porter Jr.? And they wanted us to inclued the 9th pick. Have you guys lost your damn minds?

Can you find a single post saying they want(ed) to trade RJ + 9 for Collins or MPJ? Let alone it being any kind of consensus?

For Collins yeah people suggested it. For MPJ no I meant Cam Johnson and confused the two because of the trade my bad.

[earthtone]

Yeah its crazy. I've been following RJ since he was a young kid. I remember Rowan Barrett on NBA TV talking about his son. He was already a star before he even went to Montverde, thats very tough for a HS player. Alot of players fail to improve but he continued to develop. Dominated every single level went to the pros and continues to improve. Canadian born player, always suits up for Canada, playing for his hometown, 24 years old, averaged 20, 5 and 5 and the Canadian fans all want to trade him. For John Collins? Micheal Porter Jr.? And they wanted us to inclued the 9th pick. Have you guys lost your damn minds?

Can you find a single post saying they want(ed) to trade RJ + 9 for Collins or MPJ? Let alone it being any kind of consensus?

For Collins yeah people suggested it. For MPJ no I meant Cam Johnson and confused the two because of the trade my bad.

People have been suggesting trading some combination of RJ + 9 for Collins, Cam Johnson, Malik Monk, Patrick Williams and everyone under the sun all off-season, not sure what point CPT was trying to make

[CPT]

Can you find a single post saying they want(ed) to trade RJ + 9 for Collins or MPJ? Let alone it being any kind of consensus?

For Collins yeah people suggested it. For MPJ no I meant Cam Johnson and confused the two because of the trade my bad.

People have been suggesting trading some combination of RJ + 9 for Collins, Cam Johnson, Malik Monk, Patrick Williams and everyone under the sun all off-season, not sure what point CPT was trying to make

I’m about as critical of RJ as you can get, and I haven’t seen that around. *Maybe* Cam Johnson. In the other cases, I haven’t seen much of that, and certainly not packaged with the 9th pick. I mean the people who dislike RJ are generally those who are more attached to picks, so that doesn’t even make sense.

My point is that there’s plenty of criticism of RJ to reply to and refute directly if you can. It’s not necessary to make stuff up (or take fringe views from posters I probably have blocked because they are useless) and get mad about it.

[OhCanada]

For Collins yeah people suggested it. For MPJ no I meant Cam Johnson and confused the two because of the trade my bad.

People have been suggesting trading some combination of RJ + 9 for Collins, Cam Johnson, Malik Monk, Patrick Williams and everyone under the sun all off-season, not sure what point CPT was trying to make

I’m about as critical of RJ as you can get, and I haven’t seen that around. *Maybe* Cam Johnson. In the other cases, I haven’t seen much of that, and certainly not packaged with the 9th pick. I mean the people who dislike RJ are generally those who are more attached to picks, so that doesn’t even make sense.

My point is that there’s plenty of criticism of RJ to reply to and refute directly if you can. It’s not necessary to make stuff up (or take fringe views from posters I probably have blocked because they are useless) and get mad about it.

Yeah there were many people on Twitter and on streams like Pensare Basketball's YouTube or Samson suggesting deals like Barrett + pick # 9 for 2 of Brooklyn's picks in the late 1st and Cam Johnson, or John Collins and Utah's late 1st's.

[CPT]

People have been suggesting trading some combination of RJ + 9 for Collins, Cam Johnson, Malik Monk, Patrick Williams and everyone under the sun all off-season, not sure what point CPT was trying to make

I’m about as critical of RJ as you can get, and I haven’t seen that around. *Maybe* Cam Johnson. In the other cases, I haven’t seen much of that, and certainly not packaged with the 9th pick. I mean the people who dislike RJ are generally those who are more attached to picks, so that doesn’t even make sense.

My point is that there’s plenty of criticism of RJ to reply to and refute directly if you can. It’s not necessary to make stuff up (or take fringe views from posters I probably have blocked because they are useless) and get mad about it.

Yeah there were many people on Twitter and on streams like Pensare Basketball's YouTube or Samson suggesting deals like Barrett + pick # 9 for 2 of Brooklyn's picks in the late 1st and Cam Johnson, or John Collins and Utah's late 1st's.

Okay fair enough, but keeping track of what is said here is hard enough, I'm not going to concern myself with YouTube comments. Stuff like that you can pretty much dismiss (and probably block, tbh... I can't imagine anyone campaigning to trade down for John Collins having anything useful to say about anything).

I don't think you should lump in the "I have serious doubts about RJ's ability to contribute to a winning NBA team" people with "let's package a lottery pick and trade him for John Collins or Cam Johnson" people.

Even I don't think trading RJ is any kind of pressing matter. Yeah, he's a bit overpaid and doesn't seem to fit on this team anymore, but we might as well see what we have. It's not like anyone on the team's value can really go down.

If it turns out he's the guy to keep instead of Ingram, Scottie, IQ, or whoever, that's fine with me.

[Pointgod]

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Barrett scored 0.86 PPP out of PnR sets as a ball handler this past season, which was not good. It was, in fact, outside of the top 160 guys in the league. He also wasn't top-50 in possession volume for PnR sets, either. Playmaking is pretty solid. His individual scoring was, of course, pretty rough in the main because he finished so poorly in close.

He does seem to READ the PnR pretty well to get to the bucket, though, and coupled to his passing, that makes him interesting in that regard, for sure.

What site do you use to get these types of advanced stats?

[TerryTate]

I do agree that RJ is underrated, but he has some visible flaws therefore its required that a coach makes him play within his skill set.

RJ's FT shooting a big concern. His form is not horrible, but he misses a ton of free throws. This could be a mental pressure issue and that is a big problem, cause as a guard you need to hit your FTs.

RJ's forces up a lot of bad shots. RJ's FG could easily be 10% higher if he focused on his corner spot up 3s and slashing game. His mid-range shooting game is actually not that good. He tends to miss a ton of easy shots within 8-10 feet.

Rj's right hand is clearly weaker. When he goes right his finishing and speed is all slower.

With this being said,

RJ has one of the stronger slashing Euro step games in the league. He is pretty deadly with that move.


RJ has the athleticism to run on the fast break and more than enough speed and power to get easy baskets.

Also, i think should be noted, last season was kind of an anomaly. Half of the starters were in and out of the lineup due to injury last season. RJ was playing 1 - 2 option, when he's probably better suited for option 3. BI will likely be option 1, Scotty 2, and RJ or quick option 3. Also, that being said RJ will likely be in that corner position (in which he shoots a higher 3PT%) more often now, as he's not the option 1-2 he was playing last year.

This is the part I don’t think people are thinking about enough when speaking about RJ this upcoming season. Beyond him being able to be parked in the corner more, he will be much lower in the pecking order which I actually think will be good for him and his skill set. Last season he was asked to be the number 1 or 2 option a lot because of all the injuries, which hurt his percentages. Even more so when Scottie is your number 1 option because he struggled offensively last season so he wasn’t even a good number 1. As the number 3 or 4 option he can stick to cutting, taking 3s from the corner mostly, driving off curls and movement, attacking close outs and scoring in transitions. All things he’s good at and can do. He isn’t this ball dominant player people think he is. He is much better as an off ball player who usage is very specific and tailored to what he’s good at. Eliminating for the most part the things he isn’t. The thing he really has to get better at is the free throw shooting bc he actually gets to the line a decent amount.

Yea too many people are talking last year as a sample. He was playing pretty much number 1 role for majority of the season. We don't need him to be that guy with BI. Sit in the corner and drive will be his primary function. All he really needs to really improve on is his free throw shooting.

Personally, I think BI will really change the dynamic of this team. Scotty/RJ/Quick are all role 2-3 guys. If he can 1) stay healthy and 2) be that alpha 1 player we need a lot of other things will fall into place.

[tsherkin]

What site do you use to get these types of advanced stats?

That one in particular is on NBA.com. You can get RJ's data as a PnR Ball Handler here.

[ConSarnit]

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Barrett scored 0.86 PPP out of PnR sets as a ball handler this past season, which was not good. It was, in fact, outside of the top 160 guys in the league. He also wasn't top-50 in possession volume for PnR sets, either. Playmaking is pretty solid. His individual scoring was, of course, pretty rough in the main because he finished so poorly in close.

He does seem to READ the PnR pretty well to get to the bucket, though, and coupled to his passing, that makes him interesting in that regard, for sure.

I don’t get how someone can make this video when we literally have access to RJ’s pnr stats. Last season he was 51st percentile as a pnr scorer, which is his best pnr scoring season.

24/24: 51st percentile
23/24: 37th percentile
22/23: 45th percentile

Like, in what world is RJ a pnr “maestro”? RJ is good at getting to the rim but a lot of his effectiveness is based on “catch and go” drives and NOT pnr play.

If RJ is a pnr maestro what is the author of this video classifying guys like Luka or Trae as, both guys who run pnr on far more volume and much better efficiency?

[tsherkin]

Like, in what world is RJ a pnr “maestro”? RJ is good at getting to the rim but a lot of his effectiveness is based on “catch and go” drives and NOT pnr play.

I think if one were to be charitable, it's about his passing ability and his ability to get all the way to the rim. His ability to actually finish is pretty rough, which is part of why he has such efficiency issues, but he does read and react inside the play pretty well. Obviously, RR is rocking some hyperbole, but there are some positives to take away from how RJ operates inside the PnR.