[Shams] Masai Ujiri is out as Vice Chairman and President of the Toronto Raptors - Part 2

[canada_dry]

I think it’s a pretty fair assumption if Mirko (Bell) was still around, the combination of his influence and LT’s influence would’ve resulted in Masai getting a new extension. So I dont think you can say it wouldn’t have been paid by any owner. And transparently, why do you even care how much Masai was getting paid if you’re agreeing Masai would’ve been able to navigate through this?

At the end of the day, the current brand equity, brand value, and the overall valuation of the Raptors team was largely due to Masai’s successful tenure.

Let’s also add that Keith has failed to establish and credibility in the 1.5 years he has been around and this is the guy Rogers wanted to lead the company.

No, no it wasn't. Every single team in the NBA had their valuation skyrocket due to the TV deals.

This is pretty disingenuous, sure many teams had their valuation sky rocket but there’s levels to it. We are now a top 10 valued teams in the league. And that is directly related to our winning and our championship which, even you can agree Masai was a huge part of.


I’m not sure what you guys get out of constantly trying to discredit the impact Masai had on this team. Its kinda strange tbh

Its sick behavior.

We were probably ranked in the 20s before and top 10 now. If not much changed we would be worth a lot more now (as is every team) but comparatively to other teams? Still in the 20s or high teens, logically speaking . We jumped a lot of teams that are also worth a lot more today than 13 years ago but remain in that 20-30 range.

That's directly related to our brand growing and team success the past 13 years. It just is. The 900 mil difference mentioned above is likely the difference in our team rankings because, again, every team is worth more. No need to nitpick semantics. We all knew what was meant lol

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[HiJiNX]

Shapiro inherited an old team with a one year window and no prospects in the upper minors (Vlad was 16 years old) and yet if the Jays make the playoffs this season (currently holding a spot) then they would have been a playoff team in half of Shapiro's time here. In baseball, that's not a mediocre run. Are they a mediocre front office? That's a more reasonable take, but results-wise, that hasn't been the case.

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

The Jays have only had a top 5 payroll once, and that's this season (assuming they don't sell at the deadline). The best teams Atkins built during this run were 2021-22, and those teams ranked 11th and 10th in payroll respectively. Yes, payroll has definitely helped the Jays, if anything it's the only reason they've been as good as they have been since player development has lacked, but it's not a guarantee that it will lead to making the playoffs, much less succeeding once there.

Making the playoffs in MLB (even with the expanded format) is still very difficult. Certainly more difficult than the NBA. You have teams like the Dodgers and Yankees (and recently the Astros) making it every year, but it's not the norm. How many times do you think the Mets, Cubs, Phillies, and Red Sox have made the playoffs over the last decade? Those are big market teams that (usually) spend big, yet since 2016 it's been Jays (4), Cubs (4), Red Sox (4), Phillies (3) and Mets (3). If you cut it to just since 2020 then it's Jays (3), Phillies (3), Mets (2), Cubs (1), Red Sox (1).

You'll get no argument from me that they have stunk once they've gotten to the playoffs (0-6), but as others have said, it's typically a crap shoot. In 2024 you had the best teams in each league (Yankees/Dodgers) meet in the World Series, and the year before that you had 2 Wild Card teams (Rangers/Diamondbacks). It's the opposite in the NBA where you actually have to be good to advance, but in MLB, you just have to get in and you probably have just as good a chance as everyone else who made it. The Dodgers literally have 1 title in 5 years, and that was also their only World Series appearance during that span. Same with the Yankees, except they have 0 titles. It's a crapshoot.

Regardless, I'm not trying to stick up for the Jays front office, they are expandable as they come, but people suggesting it's been a failure of a run, especially the last 5 years, are being way too dramatic.

I agree with you theoretically, but the Jays, especially since that 2021-22 team, have had glaring holes that have made them pretenders. Whether it’s been a lack of power, run manufacturing, base running or bullpen arms, or even managing, there’s been a big hole that makes it impossible to go on a deep run. This year’s team has fewer holes than the last few so maybe they can do something. But since 2021-22, the Jays have been scrounging together regular season wins with pitching and defence — which is good. But in the playoffs you need to be able to score by getting timely extra base hits, or be a threat throughout the lineup with RISP. That’s lacked. But again, this year is shaping up a bit differently. Still, I’m not holding my breath.

[tecumseh18]

Read on Twitter

This is all you ever want from an owner in pro sports.

Yeah, Rogers has a pot of (our) money they're willing to keep throwing at the Blue Jays.

Good thing too, because having low-cost homegrown pitchers in the rotation is not exactly a strength of the organization. How does the minor league system rank, again?

And let's be crystal clear, WC games in MLB are NOT the playoffs. Just as play-in games are not the NBA playoffs. If they were to be taken seriously, they wouldn't be just best of 3 affairs.

[ForeverTFC]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

This **** has been rage baiting us all weekend, hasn't he?

The best part is ItsDanger is running around parroting him because it sounds smart and contrarian

[MavCarter]

Then came the backlash. During that meeting, the lone no vote, former Ontario premier David Peterson, announced that he was quitting the board. He was fed up with the way Edward was railroading the process. Over the following weekend, a group of directors that included Peterson and Melinda, Martha and Loretta Rogers (Lisa backed Edward), concocted a plan to bring Natale back, fire Staffieri and create a special committee to restrain Edward.

Can the ed fanboys in here explain to me why his own mother and sisters planned to form a special committee to restrain eddy from all his terrible meddling after he fired 3 different CEOs from rogers?

[Tha Cynic]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

This **** has been rage baiting us all weekend, hasn't he?

The best part is ItsDanger is running around parroting him because it sounds smart and contrarian

His arguments made no sense, so i just stopped responding lol.

If you think Rogers has done a good job with the Jays situation, you know either the person isn't too bright or just trolling.

[Duffman100]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

This **** has been rage baiting us all weekend, hasn't he?

The best part is ItsDanger is running around parroting him because it sounds smart and contrarian

His arguments made no sense, so i just stopped responding lol.

If you think Rogers has done a good job with the Jays situation, you know either the person isn't too bright or just trolling.

Yeah I'm done with the clear baiting and trolling. He's been given some time off.

[canada_dry]

Sadly, I think Barnes lack of real offensive growth was truly the final nail in the coffin, it seemed Masai couldn't move past him.

Most trades I could see the reasoning even if they didn't work out but how he handled his old core, getting Yak, actually trying to resign FVV, letting Siakam linger etc is what did him in.

I distinctly remember Masai once told Lowry back in the day that he would trade him if the offer came up. He just got too sentimental for his own good.

The only true good thing about all this is now there's no actual untouchable players on this roster likely, including Barnes.

Whether whoever they bring in is going to be decent is another matter entirely.

Nah I don't think it was Barnes, but his lack of growth no doubt didn't help. Barnes is arguably the only player on the roster that has clear cut value still. There was no way to save this terrible roster construction unless Barnes became prime Giannis in year 4, which even if he had that potential, wasn't happening.

Masai signed his own death certificate with a cavalcade of bad moves or inactivity. Hopefully the next person in understands that the modern NBA requires players that can shoot from beyond 16ft.

You guys are really overthinking this lol.

Ed Rogers wanted Masai out two years after he won the championship and even went to Silver. This was happening no matter what. Rogers did not like that he was paid so much and most likely how popular he was here. A similar personality in Tim Leiweke was also basically driven out and any success the Leafs, Raptors and TFC had was all directly linked back to him. Masai was the last piece of that.

Yeah. People acting like it was a basketball decision are out to lunch.

The headlines from tsn and other Toronto media even say its not basketball related.

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[Duffman100]

Nah I don't think it was Barnes, but his lack of growth no doubt didn't help. Barnes is arguably the only player on the roster that has clear cut value still. There was no way to save this terrible roster construction unless Barnes became prime Giannis in year 4, which even if he had that potential, wasn't happening.

Masai signed his own death certificate with a cavalcade of bad moves or inactivity. Hopefully the next person in understands that the modern NBA requires players that can shoot from beyond 16ft.

You guys are really overthinking this lol.

Ed Rogers wanted Masai out two years after he won the championship and even went to Silver. This was happening no matter what. Rogers did not like that he was paid so much and most likely how popular he was here. A similar personality in Tim Leiweke was also basically driven out and any success the Leafs, Raptors and TFC had was all directly linked back to him. Masai was the last piece of that.

Yeah. People acting like it was a basketball decision are out to lunch.

The headlines from tsn and other Toronto media even say its not basketball related.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly If it was basketball related, why keep the rest of them including the GM.

[ill-Will03]

The funniest part about all this is that we had literally 3 seasons of losing under Masai. And people were claiming he's been asleep at the wheel for a decade lol. And these are the same people who were apart of TWO, if you can't handle 3 seasons of losing your definitely not built to survive a rebuild lol

[Scase]

You guys are really overthinking this lol.

Ed Rogers wanted Masai out two years after he won the championship and even went to Silver. This was happening no matter what. Rogers did not like that he was paid so much and most likely how popular he was here. A similar personality in Tim Leiweke was also basically driven out and any success the Leafs, Raptors and TFC had was all directly linked back to him. Masai was the last piece of that.

Yeah. People acting like it was a basketball decision are out to lunch.

The headlines from tsn and other Toronto media even say its not basketball related.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly If it was basketball related, why keep the rest of them including the GM.

Because generally it's stupid to fire an entire FO in one fell swoop? You think it's crazy to wait to remove other pieces until after you have the head of the org? Seems kinda obvious to me.

Have you never seen a HC get fired, only to have the assistants stick around until a new HC is hired and they decide their fates? First time watching basketball or something?

[ItsDanger]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

This **** has been rage baiting us all weekend, hasn't he?

The best part is ItsDanger is running around parroting him because it sounds smart and contrarian

What exactly am I parroting? We're all just speculating about how Rogers will approach Raptors management based on very little info.

The closest comparison is James Dolan. He's done a decent job with New York Rangers because it's been mostly hands off there. Your hope is Rogers maybe doesn't get too involved and we get lucky in who they hire. Everything else is just guesswork.

[Duffman100]

Yeah. People acting like it was a basketball decision are out to lunch.

The headlines from tsn and other Toronto media even say its not basketball related.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Exactly If it was basketball related, why keep the rest of them including the GM.

Because generally it's stupid to fire an entire FO in one fell swoop? You think it's crazy to wait to remove other pieces until after you have the head of the org? Seems kinda obvious to me.

Have you never seen a HC get fired, only to have the assistants stick around until a new HC is hired and they decide their fates? First time watching basketball or something?

That would make sense if they didn't also extend them.

[Scase]

Exactly If it was basketball related, why keep the rest of them including the GM.

Because generally it's stupid to fire an entire FO in one fell swoop? You think it's crazy to wait to remove other pieces until after you have the head of the org? Seems kinda obvious to me.

Have you never seen a HC get fired, only to have the assistants stick around until a new HC is hired and they decide their fates? First time watching basketball or something?

That would make sense if they didn't also extend them.

Well thankfully extensions and contracts are always honoured until the very end right? Even if the intent is to stick with Bobby moving forward, that still just goes to show getting rid of Masai was a basketball related move. Masai is more expensive, and they (presumably) expect Bobby to be able to maintain the same level of production. Why pay someone a bunch of money, for no apparent reason?

Basketball is a business, this team is a business, financial decisions are business related, the business is basketball, therefore it's a basketball decision. Ed can both not like Masai, and want to fire him for not being worth his salary, not mutually exclusive.

[witnessraps]

Sorry I probably missed but is Bobby still around and is he the one making decisions this summer ? Who's in line to take over Masai's role ?

[Duffman100]

Because generally it's stupid to fire an entire FO in one fell swoop? You think it's crazy to wait to remove other pieces until after you have the head of the org? Seems kinda obvious to me.

Have you never seen a HC get fired, only to have the assistants stick around until a new HC is hired and they decide their fates? First time watching basketball or something?

That would make sense if they didn't also extend them.

Well thankfully extensions and contracts are always honoured until the very end right? Even if the intent is to stick with Bobby moving forward, that still just goes to show getting rid of Masai was a basketball related move. Masai is more expensive, and they (presumably) expect Bobby to be able to maintain the same level of production. Why pay someone a bunch of money, for no apparent reason?

Basketball is a business, this team is a business, financial decisions are business related, the business is basketball, therefore it's a basketball decision. Ed can both not like Masai, and want to fire him for not being worth his salary, not mutually exclusive.

Contracts aren't always kept to the end obviously. But if this was a complete "our team is in a bad state" they would have not extended anyone and let the new president hire a new crew.

Now they'd have to pay everyone out. Makes zero sense from a business standpoint.

Obviously neither of us really knows. Based on all previous reporting, this sounds like an issue that Ed Rogers has. Maybe him and Pellet wants to cut business costs but if this was "our basketball team sucks" Bobby would be gone as well.

[Scase]

That would make sense if they didn't also extend them.

Well thankfully extensions and contracts are always honoured until the very end right? Even if the intent is to stick with Bobby moving forward, that still just goes to show getting rid of Masai was a basketball related move. Masai is more expensive, and they (presumably) expect Bobby to be able to maintain the same level of production. Why pay someone a bunch of money, for no apparent reason?

Basketball is a business, this team is a business, financial decisions are business related, the business is basketball, therefore it's a basketball decision. Ed can both not like Masai, and want to fire him for not being worth his salary, not mutually exclusive.

Contracts aren't always kept to the end obviously. But if this was a complete "our team is in a bad state" they would have not extended anyone and let the new president hire a new crew.

Now they'd have to pay everyone out. Makes zero sense from a business standpoint.

Obviously neither of us really knows. Based on all previous reporting, this sounds like an issue that Ed Rogers has. Maybe him and Pellet wants to cut business costs but if this was "our basketball team sucks" Bobby would be gone as well.

All fair points, the Bobby thing could be taken a myriad of ways.

Masai was running the show and did poorly, maybe Bobby can do better.
Bobby has been under Masai for so long, maybe he can take over.
Extend him so he doesn't feel like a lame duck while we bring in a new Pres.

And so on. It's pretty well known that Ed didn't think Masai was worth that new contract even after a chip, and quite frankly he was right. The most logical reason to me is that he didn't like Masai, and he was not worth what they were paying him/would expect on a future contract.

Even if it was "our basketball team sucks", these guys are still money grubbing little ****. So keeping some stability going into next season and saying "we like the team moving forward" prevents people from just not buying tickets next year. Nothing about this is black and white, the biggest issue I've had with a lot of the comments in the thread is that they eschew reason and ignore all the legitimate reasons why he would be fired, and just chalk it up to Ed being racist.

[JB7]

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-zach-lowe-show/2025/06/29/zachs-fa-preview-what-to-watch-for-ahead-of-the-start-of-nba-free-agency

Zach Lowe had some interesting comments on his podcast released a couple of days ago. 26mins into the pod. He is always very cautious in what he says, be he clearly says with the firing of Masai, the franchise is hovering around not being a serious club anymore. He made the point that Masai brought the franchise up to a certain respectability, and with this move the club is teetering on losing that rep.

[Reeko]

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-zach-lowe-show/2025/06/29/zachs-fa-preview-what-to-watch-for-ahead-of-the-start-of-nba-free-agency

Zach Lowe had some interesting comments on his podcast released a couple of days ago. 26mins into the pod. He is always very cautious in what he says, be he clearly says with the firing of Masai, the franchise is hovering around not being a serious club anymore. He made the point that Masai brought the franchise up to a certain respectability, and with this move the club is teetering on losing that rep.

He is 100% correct. I won't be surprised if other parts of the infrastructure that Masai and Leiweke created and invested in are slowly but surely dismantled by Rogers. Raptors 905's reputation as a great place to develop 2nd rounders and undrafted talent may well be on its way out.

I think that Pelley interview really set the tone for what the this franchise is going to be moving forward: a soulless, revenue generating corporation.

[Scase]

https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-zach-lowe-show/2025/06/29/zachs-fa-preview-what-to-watch-for-ahead-of-the-start-of-nba-free-agency

Zach Lowe had some interesting comments on his podcast released a couple of days ago. 26mins into the pod. He is always very cautious in what he says, be he clearly says with the firing of Masai, the franchise is hovering around not being a serious club anymore. He made the point that Masai brought the franchise up to a certain respectability, and with this move the club is teetering on losing that rep.

What exactly did that "respectability" bring us? Players still constantly say they dont want to be traded here, and FAs don't sign here. What else is that respectability good for?

I said it earlier, the respectability was that we won a chip, that's it. No one looks at the Raptors as a destination, we don't need to try and fool ourselves lol. If all it takes to lose this lauded respectability, is firing a guy who has been doing an awful job for years, then it wasn't worth a damn either way.

People are so dramatic lol.