Chris Bosh Sign and Trade Ideas

[Raps in 4]

Houston has some seriously overrated "assets". They're loaded with mediocre talent that's just working well as a team, and being made to look better than they are by a pretty good coach. A S&T with them would be at the bottom of my list.

[Indeed]

Is it possible to get 2010 draft picks in a sign and trade. Because the day to sign players is in july, but the draft is in june?

No, but you can have the right for the rookie player (give him the contract).
Eg. Roy Hilbert where Toronto drafted as the 2nd pick and send the rights to Indiana
Thurs, you can tell them who you want them to draft.


Meanwhile, people are over estimating the power of sign and trade.
You don't have the bargaining power for Chris Paul or

Okafor

, please be reasonable.

S&T can get you what the other team wants to give you, you have no power on what you want to get, but you can reject what they want to give you.
Usually the players are in the trading block or in the same position (eg. PF in our case)

Also, don't expect we can attach Hedo and Jose, we don't have that authority.
The reason we are getting back something is because of their cap, if they have no cap issue, they can just send us a 2nd round pick.

Chris Paul is a top 5 or 6 player in the league while Okafor is a mediocre center with a bad contract. I'd say you could get Okafor back in a trade but not Paul, their value is very different.

If you have power to reject what a team gives you, that is absolutely power in what you get. Bosh will either be signed and traded for assets or he will sign outright with another team. There is no way BC trades Bosh for a 2nd rd pick. Phoenix got more for sign and trading Joe Johnson back when the hawks were his only suitor. Bosh will have many teams interested, especially if Wade & Lebron stay with their teams.

I do agree that many posters here will be disappointed in the return. Not only in the value of a sign and trade, but also just considering how high and risky Bosh's contract is. There will be comparable players in the league making a little more than half of what Bosh does next year - and they'll be stuck with him for six years.

People expecting Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Lamarcus Aldridge or Joakim Noah will be very disappointed.

It's a little more realistic to hope for David Lee, Darren Collison, Mike Beasley, George Hill or Paul Milsap. Or, what seems more realistic are draft picks or Euro rookies like Lull or Splitter.

Of course, I am over extrapolate, and BC is no junior, he has a list of scouted players (just look at his trades and drafts).

Meanwhile, it seems like we can get Okafor, but my point is, this is up to the Hornets.
If Okafor is within their future plan, they might simply reject and get us something else (maybe three way trade for Diaw?).

[alpha]

Should be interesting seeing Bosh work with Yao. I myself don't see it working well unless Yao gets hurt again...then Bosh will be the go to guy and the stats will come.

But with Yao hurt...and Bosh leading the team....(especially after giving up assets to get him) I see fighting for a playoff spot for Bosh once again....

[Indeed]

It is because Houston works the best for Bosh and Raptors.

- Bosh gets his team.
- Has high potential to reach conference final
- Expose to media (especially the Chinese market, and check how much LeBorn made there)
- Close to home
- Team strategy works with his play style
- Good management
- and etc.


- Raptors gets a reasonable assets in return (choices from players to draft picks, and most likely works out with lots of combination)
- Houston might be willing to take bad contracts, and they have assets to trade them off as well.

[dagger]

Im wondering what kind of a return we can get. they would prob s&t scola for part buti wonder if one of ariza or martin would be included. that might be a little too optimistic though

Reject Ariza and bring in Battier.

I agree most wholeheartedly. Ariza is yet another long-term contract. The Raptors will have to rebuild in a post-Bosh world, so why take on another long term deal?

Also, and I think this is important, too, Ariza signed with Houston to be as close to southern California as he could and still get his money. He has a child there, and I don't think he would happy in Toronto. Battier, on the other hand, is a consumate professional who would instill in our young players the right kind of attitude. Battier plus a good coach for young players would be a positive force for rebuilding the right way.

[James_Raptors]

Lots of people can see this, Svengali.

Yup, just by reading these forums everyday for the past few months you would see this "Bosh going to the Rockets?" come up quite a few times. So to answer the OP's question, no, you're not the only one seeing Bosh in Houston.

[Rapsobsessed7]

heres the deal i offer.

Houston Send:
Luis Scola (S&T 7,000,000 BYC value at 3,500,000)
Jordan Hill $2,669,520
Shane Battier $7,429,500 (needs to be sent to 3rd team/another team)
* Rockets 2011 1st Round Pick (& Receive the Rights to swap with New York in 2011)
* Knicks 2012 1st Round Pick (Received in the Kevin Martin deal)

= 13,599,020 X 1.25 + 100,000
= 17,098,775

Toronto Sends:
Chris Bosh $16,800,000

Then. I ship Battier out of here because of his age for any combination of young players/picks that we can salvage. (Example Battier for Joel then Evans for Webster + 2011 1st. It would have to be a 2 part deal like that because he coulnt be packaged for x amount of days. Summary Battier + Evans for Joel + Webster + 2011 1st (lottery protected)

Jack/Calderon/Banks
Derozan/Belinelli
Hedo/Webster/Weems
Scola/Hill/Jordan (2nd)
Bargnani/Johnson/Pryzbilla

+ battier trade. I would aim for a pick example (in 2 part trade because Battier cant be packaged for x amount of time Webster + 2011 1st for Evans, then Battier for Pyzbilla example i gave you or something else). If not and we cant get anything young for Battier i keep him.

Brooks/Lowry/PG
Martin/Bell(signed)/Taylor
Ariza/Budinger
Bosh/Hayes/PF
Yao/Udoh(1st)/Andersen

contend in the west. Bosh stays the man which is also key. Send him out west.

[Ripp]

Houston has some seriously overrated "assets". They're loaded with mediocre talent that's just working well as a team, and being made to look better than they are by a pretty good coach. A S&T with them would be at the bottom of my list.

I think some of the pieces there look a lot better playing for a HOF coach like Adelman. I do agree with your general sentiment that the whole seems to be greater than the sum of its parts....leading to certain players getting overrated. However, Morey doesn't fall in love with his own talent, and is always ready and willing to move them for what he feels is blue-chip talent (Carl Landry for Kevin Martin.)

It will be interesting to see how they handle things. As I've stated earlier, if they can have a lineup of Brooks-Martin+Ariza+Bosh+Yao with Battier as 6th man, limit Yao to 25 minutes a night until the postseason, and acquire the equivalent of a Gortat to fill out their big man rotation, I think they should be favored against the Lakers. Brooks and Yao alone have menaced the Lakers last post-season. Add Bosh and Martin to the mix, and you probably have the best team in the West.

They key really is to limit Yao in the the regular season to make sure he is ready for the playoffs. If they go the cheap route of getting an undersized big to play the 23 minutes at C, or have Bosh fill those minutes at C, I'm more skeptical of their chances. But if they can get a Gortat/Darko sort of defensive presence, I really like their chances.

[James_Raptors]

Im wondering what kind of a return we can get. they would prob s&t scola for part buti wonder if one of ariza or martin would be included. that might be a little too optimistic though

Reject Ariza and bring in Battier.

I agree most wholeheartedly. Ariza is yet another long-term contract. The Raptors will have to rebuild in a post-Bosh world, so why take on another long term deal?

Also, and I think this is important, too, Ariza signed with Houston to be as close to southern California as he could and still get his money. He has a child there, and I don't think he would happy in Toronto. Battier, on the other hand, is a consumate professional who would instill in our young players the right kind of attitude. Battier plus a good coach for young players would be a positive force for rebuilding the right way.

Exactly, and also it wasn't it "reported" a few months back, Trevor already turned down a contract to come play for Toronto? The last thing we need is to bring in someone on a long term contract who doesn't want to be here. Our money could be better spent elsewhere.

[dagger]

Houston has some seriously overrated "assets". They're loaded with mediocre talent that's just working well as a team, and being made to look better than they are by a pretty good coach. A S&T with them would be at the bottom of my list.

Yes, I do consider a few of their players to fall in that category. But my view is that they have valuable assets - extra picks, rights to unsigned players and expiring contracts.

I don't want Ariza or Martin or even Scola (Scola would be age thing only, not wanting to give another 30 year old a five year contract. Ariza is overrated, and I don't think he wants to be in the northeast at all. And Martin is only a concept for a team ready to contend and willing to overpay for what he brings.

No trade with any team will bring you 100% value for Bosh, and since we aren't a very good team with Bosh, it's hard to imagine any trade making us significantly better, and almost all of the ones likely to appear will leave us worse off.

However, a trade based on picks and expiring contracts provides a great deal of flexibility. It wouldn't rescue the coming season, but it would enable a lot of good things starting with the trade deadline in Feb 2011 and summer of 2011 to put things on a very good track. Above all, it would allow the team to rebuild in a coherent fashion, putting all five positions on the table and letting the team build not only talent through the draft, trades and free agency but to make sure the pieces fit well.

Instead of trying to placate Bosh - or Vince before him - by trying to plug in trades or free agent signings that weren't necessarily complementary (think not only Hedo, but Jalen Rose back in Vince's late stages here) but were the best available, we would be able to make trades, signings and draft players to fit a more or less blank slate. To me, this can be achieved even if Jose and Hedo can't be traded. We just have to be ready to move younger players in front of them. I don't consider Jose and Hedo to be locker room cancers, and Jose might even be a great help to a young point guard. (And yes, I'd trade Jack if we acquire a young point guard.)

[Ripp]

But yeah, as a big fan of CB as a player, I really want to see what he can do on a traditionally constructed roster with a HOFer like Rick Adelman. No more of these Mickey Mouse coaches and Euroleague teams.

[Fairview4Life]

But yeah, as a big fan of CB as a player, I really want to see what he can do on a traditionally constructed roster with a HOFer like Rick Adelman. No more of these Mickey Mouse coaches and Euroleague teams.

And then you can laugh and laugh at all the losers you ever argued against on the internet.

[Ripp]

But yeah, as a big fan of CB as a player, I really want to see what he can do on a traditionally constructed roster with a HOFer like Rick Adelman. No more of these Mickey Mouse coaches and Euroleague teams.

And then you can laugh and laugh at all the losers you ever argued against on the internet.

Or have them mock me endlessly, as Bosh flops tremendously there in Houston or suffers a career-ending injury...

But yeah, I think we all know he'd be better off on a regular team rather than this Euro stuff.

[dagger]

heres the deal i offer.

Houston Send:
Luis Scola (S&T 7,000,000 BYC value at 3,500,000)
Jordan Hill $2,669,520
Shane Battier $7,429,500 (needs to be sent to 3rd team/another team)
* Rockets 2011 1st Round Pick (& Receive the Rights to swap with New York in 2011)
* Knicks 2012 1st Round Pick (Received in the Kevin Martin deal)

= 13,599,020 X 1.25 + 100,000
= 17,098,775

Toronto Sends:
Chris Bosh $16,800,000

Then. I ship Battier out of here because of his age for any combination of young players/picks that we can salvage. (Example Battier for Joel then Evans for Webster + 2011 1st. It would have to be a 2 part deal like that because he coulnt be packaged for x amount of days. Summary Battier + Evans for Joel + Webster + 2011 1st (lottery protected)

Jack/Calderon/Banks
Derozan/Belinelli
Hedo/Webster/Weems
Scola/Hill/Jordan (2nd)
Bargnani/Johnson/Pryzbilla

+ battier trade. I would aim for a pick example (in 2 part trade because Battier cant be packaged for x amount of time Webster + 2011 1st for Evans, then Battier for Pyzbilla example i gave you or something else). If not and we cant get anything young for Battier i keep him.

Brooks/Lowry/PG
Martin/Bell(signed)/Taylor
Ariza/Budinger
Bosh/Hayes/PF
Yao/Udoh(1st)/Andersen

contend in the west. Bosh stays the man which is also key. Send him out west.

That's not bad, but Scola is 30 and I think he's better off staying at HOU as prime backup to Bosh/ I'd rather have Jeffries expiring contract, and trade it along with other expirings (Banks, Battier, Evans, Belinelli) for still more picks and or longer contracts that actually suit our needs and more importantly, a rebuilding timeline.

We're at best the eighth best team in the East, and a number of teams we're competing with have cap space this summer, so you'd have to think that without Bosh, we're going to sink at least a few spots lower for a year. So no reason to expect Scola helps us avoid that fate. And at his age, I don't want to become an older team. We have to go with younger players across the board. All those expirings and picks can acquire younger assets.

Or we can let all the expirings expire, and have more cap space in the summer of 2011.
That's why unless the Lakers want to put Bynum into a trade - someone who could become a core asset - I don't see the wisdom in acquiring veterans except for the purpose of trading them quickly (expirings...)

[roundhead0]

Houston is a good possibility for a S&T. What I really want to know is what 3rd team will get involved so we can move Turkoglu too.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Of course we could just win the next 6 and all of a sudden we're world beaters again.

[dagger]

Houston is a good possibility for a S&T. What I really want to know is what 3rd team will get involved so we can move Turkoglu too.

I am really not interested in using Bosh's value to move Turk. If a team wants him, even for a crap (but shorter) contract, fine, but why squander Bosh's limited trade value otherwise?

Turk is a big contract. So what? Losing teams in markets like Toronto will not attract A list free agents. We're actually better off, IMO, letting him play next season, without pressure, blowing up his numbers a bit, and looking to see if a contender values him at the next trade deadline. Otherwise, wait for the amnesty after the next CBA is signed and boot his ass out the door at that point.

It's not worth sacrificing picks or young talent just because you don't like his face.

[Rapsobsessed7]

heres the deal i offer.

Houston Send:
Luis Scola (S&T 7,000,000 BYC value at 3,500,000)
Jordan Hill $2,669,520
Shane Battier $7,429,500 (needs to be sent to 3rd team/another team)
* Rockets 2011 1st Round Pick (& Receive the Rights to swap with New York in 2011)
* Knicks 2012 1st Round Pick (Received in the Kevin Martin deal)

= 13,599,020 X 1.25 + 100,000
= 17,098,775

Toronto Sends:
Chris Bosh $16,800,000

Then. I ship Battier out of here because of his age for any combination of young players/picks that we can salvage. (Example Battier for Joel then Evans for Webster + 2011 1st. It would have to be a 2 part deal like that because he coulnt be packaged for x amount of days. Summary Battier + Evans for Joel + Webster + 2011 1st (lottery protected)

Jack/Calderon/Banks
Derozan/Belinelli
Hedo/Webster/Weems
Scola/Hill/Jordan (2nd)
Bargnani/Johnson/Pryzbilla

+ battier trade. I would aim for a pick example (in 2 part trade because Battier cant be packaged for x amount of time Webster + 2011 1st for Evans, then Battier for Pyzbilla example i gave you or something else). If not and we cant get anything young for Battier i keep him.

Brooks/Lowry/PG
Martin/Bell(signed)/Taylor
Ariza/Budinger
Bosh/Hayes/PF
Yao/Udoh(1st)/Andersen

contend in the west. Bosh stays the man which is also key. Send him out west.

That's not bad, but Scola is 30 and I think he's better off staying at HOU as prime backup to Bosh/ I'd rather have Jeffries expiring contract, and trade it along with other expirings (Banks, Battier, Evans, Belinelli) for still more picks and or longer contracts that actually suit our needs and more importantly, a rebuilding timeline.

We're at best the eighth best team in the East, and a number of teams we're competing with have cap space this summer, so you'd have to think that without Bosh, we're going to sink at least a few spots lower for a year. So no reason to expect Scola helps us avoid that fate. And at his age, I don't want to become an older team. We have to go with younger players across the board. All those expirings and picks can acquire younger assets.

Or we can let all the expirings expire, and have more cap space in the summer of 2011.
That's why unless the Lakers want to put Bynum into a trade - someone who could become a core asset - I don't see the wisdom in acquiring veterans except for the purpose of trading them quickly (expirings...)

Well what i offer is Scola + Expiring contracts (at the deadline) for someone else + contract (that is pretty bad). I dont like the Jeffries idea i mean.

Jack
Derozan
Hedo
Hill
Bargnani

is not playing any defense, is not grabbing one rebound. At least with Scola we get someone who can rebound/defend and id try and trade him later. Hell maybe you include him with Hedo for a team looking to contend. It would have to be Scola and not Jeffires though for me at least

[Indeed]

heres the deal i offer.

Houston Send:
Luis Scola (S&T 7,000,000 BYC value at 3,500,000)
Jordan Hill $2,669,520
Shane Battier $7,429,500 (needs to be sent to 3rd team/another team)
* Rockets 2011 1st Round Pick (& Receive the Rights to swap with New York in 2011)
* Knicks 2012 1st Round Pick (Received in the Kevin Martin deal)

= 13,599,020 X 1.25 + 100,000
= 17,098,775

Toronto Sends:
Chris Bosh $16,800,000

Then. I ship Battier out of here because of his age for any combination of young players/picks that we can salvage. (Example Battier for Joel then Evans for Webster + 2011 1st. It would have to be a 2 part deal like that because he coulnt be packaged for x amount of days. Summary Battier + Evans for Joel + Webster + 2011 1st (lottery protected)

Jack/Calderon/Banks
Derozan/Belinelli
Hedo/Webster/Weems
Scola/Hill/Jordan (2nd)
Bargnani/Johnson/Pryzbilla

+ battier trade. I would aim for a pick example (in 2 part trade because Battier cant be packaged for x amount of time Webster + 2011 1st for Evans, then Battier for Pyzbilla example i gave you or something else). If not and we cant get anything young for Battier i keep him.

Brooks/Lowry/PG
Martin/Bell(signed)/Taylor
Ariza/Budinger
Bosh/Hayes/PF
Yao/Udoh(1st)/Andersen

contend in the west. Bosh stays the man which is also key. Send him out west.

That's not bad, but Scola is 30 and I think he's better off staying at HOU as prime backup to Bosh/ I'd rather have Jeffries expiring contract, and trade it along with other expirings (Banks, Battier, Evans, Belinelli) for still more picks and or longer contracts that actually suit our needs and more importantly, a rebuilding timeline.

We're at best the eighth best team in the East, and a number of teams we're competing with have cap space this summer, so you'd have to think that without Bosh, we're going to sink at least a few spots lower for a year. So no reason to expect Scola helps us avoid that fate. And at his age, I don't want to become an older team. We have to go with younger players across the board. All those expirings and picks can acquire younger assets.

Or we can let all the expirings expire, and have more cap space in the summer of 2011.
That's why unless the Lakers want to put Bynum into a trade - someone who could become a core asset - I don't see the wisdom in acquiring veterans except for the purpose of trading them quickly (expirings...)

I agree, and agree to your previous post.

I don't want to do anything with long contracts (Ariza and Martin), and we probably don't need Scola (average defender).
With the expiring you mention and a first round pick, we can probably get ride of Jose (or Hedo) for a proven defensive C.

Also, I think Toronto can still make the playoffs next year with a defensive C, as if few players can turn around and play with their style (DeRozan, Hedo, Bargnani, Belinelli are all under achieving).

[klemen4]

Houston Send:
Luis Scola (S&T 7,000,000 BYC value at 3,500,000)
Jordan Hill $2,669,520
Shane Battier $7,429,500 (needs to be sent to 3rd team/another team)
* Rockets 2011 1st Round Pick (& Receive the Rights to swap with New York in 2011)
* Knicks 2012 1st Round Pick (Received in the Kevin Martin deal)

Add Jeffries expiring to it...

Something out of those 4 players(Scola, Battir,Hill,Jeffries)+ pick for sure will be the offer.