Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[Jstock12]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/canadas-best-case-scenario-olympic-qualification-2019-fiba-world-cup/

Steven Loung breaks down Canada's path to qualifying for the Olympics. It is grim to say the least.
After I read this article, all I could think is hopefully we can host one of the last chance tourny's. That may be the only way we get a good turnout.

This scenario is full of assumptions presented as facts or likely scenarios and fails to consider many other options. The most glaring among these: The assumption that we have to reach the SF to qualify. Even if the QF ends up looking the way Loung predicts, that's not true. Because unless Argentina (or Brazil, or another SA team) actually qualifies for the SF, there will be more games to determine who is higher-ranked, possibly even between Canada and one of the SA teams. Assumptions like Venezuela as a sure bet against host China are also questionable.

So the only thing I agree with here is that the odds are not in our favor. But trying to predict things with such accuracy and with so many contingent assumptions just strikes me as silly. The odds that things are going to play out this way are probably rather small.

This about the worst analysis I have read out there (Luong's). He has no idea the relative strength of rosters, what key players are missing or anything about how teams have performed in the warm-up games. To think DR is somehow favored to get past Germany in the first round is just ignorance.

Even if Canada doesn't qualify to the Olympics through this tournament, there's a Qualifier next year which you will be a heavy favorite to win assuming Murray, Barrett, Wiggins and others play. Or am I missing something here?

[Mattd97]

This scenario is full of assumptions presented as facts or likely scenarios and fails to consider many other options. The most glaring among these: The assumption that we have to reach the SF to qualify. Even if the QF ends up looking the way Loung predicts, that's not true. Because unless Argentina (or Brazil, or another SA team) actually qualifies for the SF, there will be more games to determine who is higher-ranked, possibly even between Canada and one of the SA teams. Assumptions like Venezuela as a sure bet against host China are also questionable.

So the only thing I agree with here is that the odds are not in our favor. But trying to predict things with such accuracy and with so many contingent assumptions just strikes me as silly. The odds that things are going to play out this way are probably rather small.

This about the worst analysis I have read out there (Luong's). He has no idea the relative strength of rosters, what key players are missing or anything about how teams have performed in the warm-up games. To think DR is somehow favored to get past Germany in the first round is just ignorance.

Even if Canada doesn't qualify to the Olympics through this tournament, there's a Qualifier next year which you will be a heavy favorite to win assuming Murray, Barrett, Wiggins and others play. Or am I missing something here?

Missing something. Itd be a few qualifying tournaments, so its win or go home so favourite or not anything can happen (venezuela). And because of the format we could easily end up in a group with Slovenia or another very good European country (france). Also, assuming Murray, Wiggins, Barrett, and others play is like assuming you're definitely winning the lottery (every game ever).

[Kenter16]

This scenario is full of assumptions presented as facts or likely scenarios and fails to consider many other options. The most glaring among these: The assumption that we have to reach the SF to qualify. Even if the QF ends up looking the way Loung predicts, that's not true. Because unless Argentina (or Brazil, or another SA team) actually qualifies for the SF, there will be more games to determine who is higher-ranked, possibly even between Canada and one of the SA teams. Assumptions like Venezuela as a sure bet against host China are also questionable.

So the only thing I agree with here is that the odds are not in our favor. But trying to predict things with such accuracy and with so many contingent assumptions just strikes me as silly. The odds that things are going to play out this way are probably rather small.

This about the worst analysis I have read out there (Luong's). He has no idea the relative strength of rosters, what key players are missing or anything about how teams have performed in the warm-up games. To think DR is somehow favored to get past Germany in the first round is just ignorance.

Even if Canada doesn't qualify to the Olympics through this tournament, there's a Qualifier next year which you will be a heavy favorite to win assuming Murray, Barrett, Wiggins and others play. Or am I missing something here?

I think the only way we get a good turnout is if we host one of the 4 tournaments. I can't imagine that if we get put in a tourney in say Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia or South America that we would get a good turnout. And yes, that's basically the rest of the world. If we don't host, we will have a very tough time finding enough quality guys to go across the globe and commit to a whole summer of Canada Basketball.

[mojo13]

Much better preview at The Athletic from Blake Murphy

https://theathletic.com/1161354/2019/08/29/world-cup-preview-canada-will-have-to-fight-for-survival-in-group-of-death/


For any of you about to complain about the paywall - the content at The Athletic is so worth the $1.99 a month (currently on sale). There is just so much there and so in-depth.

Beyond that you do seem to get a few free reads per month if you are not a subscriber if you want to poke around and look at something like this. I don't think you'll find better Team Canada coverage elsewhere (only maybe here!) - but it is mostly Murphy and sometimes Koreen.
They even brought in Lithuanian/Austrlian/Sengalese experts for this preview.

[frumble]

Even if Canada doesn't qualify to the Olympics through this tournament, there's a Qualifier next year which you will be a heavy favorite to win assuming Murray, Barrett, Wiggins and others play. Or am I missing something here?

Missing something. Itd be a few qualifying tournaments, so its win or go home so favourite or not anything can happen (venezuela). And because of the format we could easily end up in a group with Slovenia or another very good European country (france). Also, assuming Murray, Wiggins, Barrett, and others play is like assuming you're definitely winning the lottery (every game ever).

Exactly.
Some very good European teams are going to be in the last chance tournaments next summer. Depending on the draw, we may not even be the favorites in our tournament even if we have close to full participation.

And I agree that can't expect participation to be much better than it was this summer, depending on the location and timing of the tournament.

Bottom line, with only one of six teams making it from each tournament, it is going to be tough.


Despite our very depleted roster, I think our chances of making it now might not be much worse than our chances next summer.
Depending on how the other games go, we likely only need to beat Australia or Lithuania to make the second round.

I realize that it will likely require more than just making second round, but I still think we would have a fighting chance.

[TrueNorth31]

So Wiggins this week is in the Bahamas with most of his team and coaches for a mini-camp/retreat. So he chose this (to prep for a crucial year for him for his career) plus his kids camp in Vaughan last week instead of playing for Canada. The camp he could have re-scheduled, but the team retreat he wanted to be there for his new coach. Though, Josh Okogie elected to play for his country with corrupt team organizers and arguably he's just as important to the Wolves as Wiggins is.

Good find. I've heard these minicamp/retreats organized by the players are becoming more and more a thing with a lot of squads just before training camp. So now if you want to play in the World Cup you have to run the gauntlet-first your NBA team will try to dissuade you ( and if you have the least little injury they have the power to pull the plug) , then your agent will probably be worried about maximizing your future revenue so he'll be negative about you participating and then, last but not least your teammates will be pressuring you to do the Banana Boat/ mini camp team bonding expedition thing.

You really have to want to participate in the World Cup to withstand all these pressures. I give a lot of credit to a guy like Okogie for showing up for Nigeria, but he's the exception , not the norm.

This sounds true until you realize that in many of the European countries the NBA guys do suit up. This includes superstars like Giannis in Greece and Jokic in Serbia. Or take the team in our group, Lithuania. They have two NBA players. Both are in China. We have like more than ten (not including rookies) and only two in China. Same goes for France, which we might meet if we somehow get through our group of death. Each and every one of their NBA veterans is suiting up. And the list goes on (Serbia, Greece, Italy, etc.). I imagine that these players face the same pressures as the Canadians (and Americans) do from teams and agents, but do not let this bother them. Eventually, as you say, it comes down to players' commitment to the team and wanting to be there. And I suspect that the main issue is that in all of these countries people and the media actually care about this tournament, and so players do too. We (Canadians; not people who are here obviously) just don't.

I'm not sure comparing European athletes to North American athletes is necessarily accurate though ( glad to see you posting again). My understanding that culturally sports in Europe is considerably different than here in North America. In Europe they follow a hybrid soccer model. If your a fan of the Bayern Munich basketball program ( or soccer for that matter) it's a lot different than being a Raptor fan. Instead of chasing the one penultimate goal of winning a league championship like we do here, a European athlete or fan has several other options. First of all the Bayern basketball team would be involved in competing in their own domestic German League, concurrently they would also be playing internationally against other teams in Euroleague. If it's soccer there's a whole myriad of international Fifa qualifying matches or international friendly exhibition matches that occur all year long. Players are strongly encouraged to join the national squad ( there's no such thing as a Mark Cuban whining to everyone about his own narrow business interests ) without consequence to their club teams. Playing for the National Program is paramount in soccer.

Here we put all our eggs in one basket as fans. The ultimate goal is to win a domestic league championship at all cost - nothing else matters ( e.g. the Larry OB ). Unfortunately in such a system international competition is secondary. I know it's hard to comprehend their system - I'm not a soccer guy and I barely understand it. As people we tend to be ethnocentric ( looking at other cultures through the lens of our own values) so it's hard for us to understand European sports, but I do know it's totally different. I can see if your Marc Gasol and you grew up in a sports environment that constantly promotes and focuses on international competition playing for your national program would be important. In North America we just don't have the same approach to sports.

[Hair Canada]

Yes, you are right of course about the cultural differences between Europe (or dare I say just the rest of the world) and North America as it relates to sport culture and commitment to the national team. Though it does strike me that there's much more commitment here in Canada when we're talking hockey or even soccer, so maybe that's not the entire story. I think it's a mix of that and what I wrote about earlier -- that no one in North American actually cares much about this basketball WC. It's enough to look at the journalistic coverage of the event to realize that.

[Hoodwink]

Much better preview at The Athletic from Blake Murphy

https://theathletic.com/1161354/2019/08/29/world-cup-preview-canada-will-have-to-fight-for-survival-in-group-of-death/


For any of you about to complain about the paywall - the content at The Athletic is so worth the $1.99 a month (currently on sale). There is just so much there and so in-depth.

Beyond that you do seem to get a few free reads per month if you are not a subscriber if you want to poke around and look at something like this. I don't think you'll find better Team Canada coverage elsewhere (only maybe here!) - but it is mostly Murphy and sometimes Koreen.
They even brought in Lithuanian/Austrlian/Sengalese experts for this preview.

I disagree about that, brother. I hardly use The Athletic anymore. I find most of their stories a snooze fest essay so definitely not for everybody.

[WellYouKnow]

Just to confirm what someone said earlier, DAZN is indeed free for the first month. I just signed up

[TrueNorth31]

Fairly good primer on the top teams which may beat the States in the World Cup.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/29/20837355/team-usa-fiba-world-cup

[TrueNorth31]

Yes, you are right of course about the cultural differences between Europe (or dare I say just the rest of the world) and North America as it relates to sport culture and commitment to the national team. Though it does strike me that there's much more commitment here in Canada when we're talking hockey or even soccer, so maybe that's not the entire story. I think it's a mix of that and what I wrote about earlier -- that no one in North American actually cares much about this basketball WC. It's enough to look at the journalistic coverage of the event to realize that.

Yes I hear you about the lack of media coverage. I'm aware of only 2 Canadian media types going to the event - Laurie Ewing of Canadian Press and Mike Ganter of the Toronto Sun. Not having the games over the air has proven to be a colossal blunder. I get it they were so desperate for money they took the DAZN cash and ran, but strategically for the growth of the brand and to help drive participation it's been a disaster. Just think of all the casual fans who enjoyed the Raptors run that they would have captured with a half decent showing ( I get the games are in the middle of the night, but still? ).

[TrueNorth31]

Maybe R.J. Barrett can just buy the Canadian National Team for his dad. Barrett just signed a sneaker deal with Puma rumored to be in the $ 10 million year category ( he makes $ 7.8 next year with the Knicks ).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2851436-knicks-news-rookie-rj-barrett-signs-endorsement-contract-with-puma

[RAblaze]

Watch on YouTube

[BilboBanginz]

Best & Brissett out, Kajami-Keane and Morgan are in. Roster is now set.

Read on Twitter

[BilboBanginz]

ESPN Preview of the World Cup:

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/27489783/fiba-world-cup-preview-breaking-all-32-teams

They have Argentina making it to the Quarter-Final, making them the 2nd highest finishing America's team. They also are predicting Serbia defeating Australia in the Final.

CANADA
Key player: Cory Joseph
Head coach: Nick Nurse
How they qualified: first in Americas group
Previous World Cup best: sixth (twice)
FIBA ranking: 23

Outlook: At full-strength, Canada would have the second-best roster in international hoops. Instead, Nurse is coaching short-handed with Orlando Magic backup Khem Birch inheriting the leadership role, with Joseph only arriving at the last minute. A real opportunity missed.

Prediction: Classification Round (17th-32nd)

[And1Skip]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[DaFroMan]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Bogut in the nba finals... he looked pretty darn slow... not convinced hes a game changer for Australia anymore.

[mojo13]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Bogut in the nba finals... he looked pretty darn slow... not convinced hes a game changer for Australia anymore.

They are going to better with Bogut. No doubt about it.
Especially with him allowed to camp defensively in the key, set moving screens and hammer people with elbows with no calls.
FIBA ball hides some of his age.

[Mattd97]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Bogut in the nba finals... he looked pretty darn slow... not convinced hes a game changer for Australia anymore.

They are going to better with Bogut. No doubt about it.
Especially with him allowed to camp defensively in the key, set moving screens and hammer people with elbows with no calls.
FIBA ball hides some of his age.

Frustrating cause if you put Powell, olynyk, and Boucher out there you can make him move a little and have to cover them outside. The guys we have no wont be able to do that. Same with JV

[frumble]

Frustrating cause if you put Powell, olynyk, and Boucher out there you can make him move a little and have to cover them outside. The guys we have no wont be able to do that. Same with JV

Yes, very frustrating. And maybe Nicholson or Bennett could have done the same thing.
But we do have Wiltjer.