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Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai..

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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#241 » by brownbobcat » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:23 am

nikster wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
nikster wrote:Who are the comparable players who signed for 40-70 million less?


Pascal Siakam: $130M/4 + $16-26M bonus
Domantas Sabonis: $75M/4 + $5-8M bonus
Jaylen Brown: $107M/4 + $4-8M bonus

Pascal would have been basically a max this season anyway. Sabonis and Brown's value was much lower than Siakam at the time.

Last year was his first in a new role, he's gonna be actually playing on that contract this year. Pascal's contract will not be a negative asset

The issue isn't what he would sign for right now.

There's no way you can convince me Siakam's value was nearly double Sabonis last year. Dude was putting up 14/9/3 on amazing percentages on a good team, not to mention being 2 years younger. I can accept that Sabonis was a great bargain even at the time and not easy to replicate, but it's like Masai doesn't even try with some of these contracts.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#242 » by Gold Dragon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:00 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
nikster wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Pascal Siakam: $130M/4 + $16-26M bonus
Domantas Sabonis: $75M/4 + $5-8M bonus
Jaylen Brown: $107M/4 + $4-8M bonus

Pascal would have been basically a max this season anyway. Sabonis and Brown's value was much lower than Siakam at the time.

Last year was his first in a new role, he's gonna be actually playing on that contract this year. Pascal's contract will not be a negative asset

The issue isn't what he would sign for right now.

There's no way you can convince me Siakam's value was nearly double Sabonis last year. Dude was putting up 14/9/3 on amazing percentages on a good team, not to mention being 2 years younger. I can accept that Sabonis was a great bargain even at the time and not easy to replicate, but it's like Masai doesn't even try with some of these contracts.


You can't just look at stat lines without context.

When Sabonis signed his extension, it was after two seasons with Indy where he started a total of 24 out of 148 games averaging 24 MPG. So those numbers were coming off the bench for the 5th seed in the eastern conference with 48 wins and a 1st round exit in two seasons. Strangely they had the exact same record, seed and playoff outcome in both seasons.

When Pascal signed his contact he was a starter averaging 32 MPG, #2 scorer and widely considered the 2nd or 3rd best player for the championship team. And he often carried the #1 scoring role when Kawhi was load managing, all while playing stellar defense.

So yes, up to that stage in their careers, Pascal's value was double that of Sabonis.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#243 » by nikster » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:18 pm

Gold Dragon wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
nikster wrote:Pascal would have been basically a max this season anyway. Sabonis and Brown's value was much lower than Siakam at the time.

Last year was his first in a new role, he's gonna be actually playing on that contract this year. Pascal's contract will not be a negative asset

The issue isn't what he would sign for right now.

There's no way you can convince me Siakam's value was nearly double Sabonis last year. Dude was putting up 14/9/3 on amazing percentages on a good team, not to mention being 2 years younger. I can accept that Sabonis was a great bargain even at the time and not easy to replicate, but it's like Masai doesn't even try with some of these contracts.


You can't just look at stat lines without context.

When Sabonis signed his extension, it was after two seasons with Indy where he started a total of 24 out of 148 games averaging 24 MPG. So those numbers were coming off the bench for the 5th seed in the eastern conference with 48 wins and a 1st round exit in two seasons. Strangely they had the exact same record, seed and playoff outcome in both seasons.

When Pascal signed his contact he was a starter averaging 32 MPG, #2 scorer and widely considered the 2nd or 3rd best player for the championship team. And he often carried the #1 scoring role when Kawhi was load managing, all while playing stellar defense.

So yes, up to that stage in their careers, Pascal's value was double that of Sabonis.

Yup, and you don't have to be twice as good to be twice as valuable
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#244 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:05 pm

Masai could have driven a harder bargain, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with dishing out a reward for winning the ultimate prize. Unsurprisingly the Pacers have chemistry issues and the Celtics have had locker room dust-ups the last two seasons (including Jaylen Brown 2X!!!).

The contracts I worry about are the 3rd supermax deals, because that's when guys get hurt and fall off and you end up with Blake Griffin and John Wall. Siakam's max, unless he completely falls off and never regains his 3PT shooting form, is going to measure as a slight overpay, but it always was going to be a slight overpay because he's not a true max superstar.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#245 » by billy_hoyle » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:53 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Masai could have driven a harder bargain, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with dishing out a reward for winning the ultimate prize. Unsurprisingly the Pacers have chemistry issues and the Celtics have had locker room dust-ups the last two seasons (including Jaylen Brown 2X!!!).

The contracts I worry about are the 3rd supermax deals, because that's when guys get hurt and fall off and you end up with Blake Griffin and John Wall. Siakam's max, unless he completely falls off and never regains his 3PT shooting form, is going to measure as a slight overpay, but it always was going to be a slight overpay because he's not a true max superstar.


So, you are worried about signing Giannis?
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#246 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:58 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Masai could have driven a harder bargain, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with dishing out a reward for winning the ultimate prize. Unsurprisingly the Pacers have chemistry issues and the Celtics have had locker room dust-ups the last two seasons (including Jaylen Brown 2X!!!).

The contracts I worry about are the 3rd supermax deals, because that's when guys get hurt and fall off and you end up with Blake Griffin and John Wall. Siakam's max, unless he completely falls off and never regains his 3PT shooting form, is going to measure as a slight overpay, but it always was going to be a slight overpay because he's not a true max superstar.


So, you are worried about signing Giannis?


No.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#247 » by Chandan » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:11 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Masai could have driven a harder bargain, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with dishing out a reward for winning the ultimate prize. Unsurprisingly the Pacers have chemistry issues and the Celtics have had locker room dust-ups the last two seasons (including Jaylen Brown 2X!!!).

The contracts I worry about are the 3rd supermax deals, because that's when guys get hurt and fall off and you end up with Blake Griffin and John Wall. Siakam's max, unless he completely falls off and never regains his 3PT shooting form, is going to measure as a slight overpay, but it always was going to be a slight overpay because he's not a true max superstar.


pascal helped us win the championship as the third fiddle. it's proven to work once. I have no problem with the contract because that's what a B player on a championship squad gets paid.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#248 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:08 pm

Chandan wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Masai could have driven a harder bargain, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with dishing out a reward for winning the ultimate prize. Unsurprisingly the Pacers have chemistry issues and the Celtics have had locker room dust-ups the last two seasons (including Jaylen Brown 2X!!!).

The contracts I worry about are the 3rd supermax deals, because that's when guys get hurt and fall off and you end up with Blake Griffin and John Wall. Siakam's max, unless he completely falls off and never regains his 3PT shooting form, is going to measure as a slight overpay, but it always was going to be a slight overpay because he's not a true max superstar.


pascal helped us win the championship as the third fiddle. it's proven to work once. I have no problem with the contract because that's what a B player on a championship squad gets paid.
Siakam was actually 2nd in usage on that championship team.

He's already accomplished a lot in his career, especially when compared to his peers. MIP award, Allstar team, all NBA 2nd team, 2nd option on a championship team. Pretty impressive resume so far.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#249 » by gerrit4 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:01 am

Steelo Green wrote:
gerrit4 wrote:
Steelo Green wrote:I said finals MVP.

Not candidates either.

Literal finals MVPs.

And what? Lol. You always have cap space to make a trade if you match salaries. Players of Kawhis caliber are rarely if ever available and never come to Toronto because they don’t want to come here.



Looking at the past 10 seasons, here's a list of how each Finals MVP was acquired:

Lebron: FA
Kawhi: Draft (for SA), Trade (Raps)
KD: FA
Iggy (if you count it): trade.

None of the players were acquired through the draft. Since the players have gotten more power to switch teams, it seems like the way to get a finals MVP is through trade or FA.

In the past 30 years, there were 15 different finals MVPs. That's it - fourteen! Out of 1000's of players.

How many were traded in their primes?

Shaq, Chauncey, Kawhi, Iggy. That's over 25% of ALL the finals MVPs!

But here's a second thought - how many were either traded, or on the trading block during their primes?
Shaq, Chauncey, Kawhi, Iggy, Parker, Pierce.

Now we're at 40%.

I'd say it's not that rare.

I said in their primes lol.

Pierce, Chauncy, Parker, Shaq, none were in their primes.

The answer is only Kareem and Moses Malone.

If you want to include Iggy, that's fair, I did include that in my list of criteria though he wasn't a star, but that is fair he was in his prime when he went to GS.

As you can see, most are drafted. Kawhi was drafted by SA, Lebron drafted by Cleveland, and then KD drafted by OKC and then he signed. They sign wherever they want to go or they are drafted.

Also, Chauncey went to Detroit when he was a nobody, not when he was a superstar wanting out.

Which at the time they were traded who were finals MVP and in their prime was traded. Include Shaq if you want, but I don't put 32 year old Shaq there in his prime. Great player still but not, this is a top 3 player.

It literally never happens, and we are banking for a rarity that has never happened to happen, and then of course, hope for a signing which we have never even gotten a meeting lol.


Shaq was still in his late prime - he was second in mvp voting after he was traded. Parker was on the trade block the year we drafted JV - which was 100 percent in his prime before he was a finals mvp. Chauncey was traded before his prime, pierce was on the block (somewhat during his prime).

I thought your point was that it was rare to acquire a finals mvp by trade, which it isn’t.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#250 » by vulture » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:24 am

The one thing that fandom brings is not being happy whether you have the best executive / front office in the league or not.

We are positioned in the bet way possible with tradable contracts, cap space no dead money and all of our fRPs. All with a chance to 50 games
Every year.

I’m rolling with Masai until he shows me that he’s not making good decisions.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#251 » by billy_hoyle » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:12 am

Dudes done nothing to make me doubt him.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#252 » by Steelo Green » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:21 am

gerrit4 wrote:
Steelo Green wrote:
gerrit4 wrote:

Looking at the past 10 seasons, here's a list of how each Finals MVP was acquired:

Lebron: FA
Kawhi: Draft (for SA), Trade (Raps)
KD: FA
Iggy (if you count it): trade.

None of the players were acquired through the draft. Since the players have gotten more power to switch teams, it seems like the way to get a finals MVP is through trade or FA.

In the past 30 years, there were 15 different finals MVPs. That's it - fourteen! Out of 1000's of players.

How many were traded in their primes?

Shaq, Chauncey, Kawhi, Iggy. That's over 25% of ALL the finals MVPs!

But here's a second thought - how many were either traded, or on the trading block during their primes?
Shaq, Chauncey, Kawhi, Iggy, Parker, Pierce.

Now we're at 40%.

I'd say it's not that rare.

I said in their primes lol.

Pierce, Chauncy, Parker, Shaq, none were in their primes.

The answer is only Kareem and Moses Malone.

If you want to include Iggy, that's fair, I did include that in my list of criteria though he wasn't a star, but that is fair he was in his prime when he went to GS.

As you can see, most are drafted. Kawhi was drafted by SA, Lebron drafted by Cleveland, and then KD drafted by OKC and then he signed. They sign wherever they want to go or they are drafted.

Also, Chauncey went to Detroit when he was a nobody, not when he was a superstar wanting out.

Which at the time they were traded who were finals MVP and in their prime was traded. Include Shaq if you want, but I don't put 32 year old Shaq there in his prime. Great player still but not, this is a top 3 player.

It literally never happens, and we are banking for a rarity that has never happened to happen, and then of course, hope for a signing which we have never even gotten a meeting lol.


Shaq was still in his late prime - he was second in mvp voting after he was traded. Parker was on the trade block the year we drafted JV - which was 100 percent in his prime before he was a finals mvp. Chauncey was traded before his prime, pierce was on the block (somewhat during his prime).

I thought your point was that it was rare to acquire a finals mvp by trade, which it isn’t.

Parker wasn’t traded and rumours are not anything so yeah moot.

Chauncey was traded as a journeyman that no one cared for.

Pierce was on the block but never traded. Again you’re adding all these new things.

Rumours exist with every player in NBA history.

Interesting thing with all those guys is they were never top 5 players (minus Shaq) or superstars. Just perfect situation perfect time.

I even said include Shaq but that true superstar finals MVP traded during their prime is again 4 players (Shaq, Moses, Kawhi and Kareem).

Add Parker, Chauncey or Pierce to our team in their prime, are we winning a title? Nope. Pierce would make us maybe a finals team but not title team and again, he was never traded in his prime either so point is irrelevant lol.

Players of Kawhis caliber are rarely if ever available and in Kawhis case with the extenuating circumstances of his injury, year off, and all that made his value so low that we got him in a rare if ever trade done as such.
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#253 » by MixxSRC » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:54 am

Read on Twitter


:o
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#254 » by Kevin Willis » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:00 am

MixxSRC wrote:
Read on Twitter


:o


Wait, is that is agent?

:o
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#255 » by MixxSRC » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:07 am

Kevin Willis wrote:
MixxSRC wrote:
Read on Twitter


:o


Wait, is that is agent?

:o


Yup and also Matt Thomas's :o
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#256 » by Son Goku 25 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:10 am

MixxSRC wrote:
Read on Twitter


:o


Question is when did he like it lol seems like a post from Oct 2019
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#257 » by C-R-E-A-M- » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:15 am

ima go back to this post when we sign Giannis
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Re: Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai.. 

Post#258 » by YelloC » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:58 am

Son Goku 25 wrote:
MixxSRC wrote:
Read on Twitter


:o


Question is when did he like it lol seems like a post from Oct 2019

You can see Giannis in the reflection in the windows. :o

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