The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[Johnny Bball]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

[OakleyDokely]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

[NinjaBro]

What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

Oooooof

[prelude00]

i think people forget to notice that masai drafted flynn the year before. Imagine being Masai drafting flynn probably promising him and his dad that there was a future with the team and then to turn around and draft suggs. Even if barnes wasnt in this draft i feel masai would have picked kuminga. My point is, it was more than just scottie barnes vs suggs but that in addition to barnes physical stats and upside drafting suggs would have been redundant.

ain’t nobody give a damn about Flynn and his dad judging our draft selection

Of course masai does. Suggs and Flynn are interchangeable. Why draft suggs when we have suggs at home

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

[ciueli]

And Pascal over Skal wasn't even that controversial, for some reason this whole board had a huge hard on for Skal and the only NBA team that thought he was worth a late first was the Kings, one of the worst drafting teams in the league.

[Rebel INS]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

In a best case development scenario Scottie with BE the comparison, and will be a unique new mold we haven't exactly seen before

He doesn't need to have a surprise growth spurt or fill out for that to happen like giannis (kid is already built like a brick sh house and had an NBA ready body back when he was high school), nor does he need to make quantum leaps forward to a 25 ppg scorer

His best case scenerio (offensively) is a legit play making as a pure point forward in the half court, running pick and roll as a ballhandler - while also getting his shooting to a level where he can just hit open shots when defenders go under, or use his length to shoot over mismatches that physically can't contest

Right now his obvious "it factor' skill on offense is his vision and passing, and if you're gonna project his best case, it should be based around that more than things he hasn't necessarily shown yet like Giannis level aggressive attacking the rim

I don't know who the comp for that is necessarily. Mike Schmitz compared him in passing to Kyle Anderson with 'more juice' which is interesting - not a sexy comp for most, but got me thinking that maybe the best case comp for his is an 'hyper athletic version' of a pure point forward who you wouldn't ordinarily mention in same breath as Giannis or Kawhi

Athletic Hedo Turkoglu with average-ish shooting but All NBA defense and intensity/intangibles lol?

[dagger]

So much effort vested in comparisons. Suggs was always going to be the better choice for quick improvement, he's the more polished guy. Barnes was likely to be the better long term investment in the hands of an organization known for good talent development. The latter is what Masai chose. Arguing about this now seems pointless. Wait five years.

[Los_29]

What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

To be fair, there isn't a single GM in this league that'd take Drummond over Ross.

And half those picks were drafted in the mid-late 1st round. There really isn't a consensus BPA at that point. We can use that same logic when we selected OG, Delon and Norm. You can argue none of them were the "BPA" at that point in the draft.

And Suggs wasn't the obvious BPA here. Barnes was also a consensus top 5 pick in mock drafts and he was even more popular among NBA teams which is the most important. Bargnani over Aldridge, Araujo over Iggy were the most egregious as they were in the lottery.

[Young_Buc]

What is our draft record for passing on the "obvious BPA" for "our pick"?

From what I can remember it has always bitten us in the ass regardless of the GM in power.

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

To be fair, there isn't a single GM in this league that'd take Drummond over Ross.

And half those picks were drafted in the mid-late 1st round. There really isn't a consensus BPA at that point. We can use that same logic when we selected OG, Delon and Norm. You can argue none of them were the "BPA" at that point in the draft.

And Suggs wasn't the obvious BPA here. Barnes was also a consensus top 5 pick in mock drafts and he was even more popular among NBA teams which is the most important. Bargnani over Aldridge, Araujo over Iggy were the most egregious as they were in the lottery.

Oh today for sure Ross> Drummond but the value of Andre Drummond for the first 5 seasons of his career was SKY HIGH. Be could have legitimately been flipped for a star.

Consensus is tricky if not at the top of the lottery. Reach is a more appropriate term. We've reached a few times and it's never paid off aside from Pascal.

[TrustFundBaby]

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

To be fair, there isn't a single GM in this league that'd take Drummond over Ross.

And half those picks were drafted in the mid-late 1st round. There really isn't a consensus BPA at that point. We can use that same logic when we selected OG, Delon and Norm. You can argue none of them were the "BPA" at that point in the draft.

And Suggs wasn't the obvious BPA here. Barnes was also a consensus top 5 pick in mock drafts and he was even more popular among NBA teams which is the most important. Bargnani over Aldridge, Araujo over Iggy were the most egregious as they were in the lottery.

Oh today for sure Ross> Drummond but the value of Andre Drummond for the first 5 seasons of his career was SKY HIGH. Be could have legitimately been flipped for a star.

Consensus is tricky if not at the top of the lottery. Reach is a more appropriate term. We've reached a few times and it's never paid off aside from Pascal.

I disagree he could've been flipped for a star. Remember Masai telling JV "Your way better than Drummond"? That was in like 2018 too, Drummond was an all star just 2 years prior

And even though he was putting up big numbers he could only return John Henson.

Drummond was always seen as an empty stats loser for most of his career. Media lazily voting him in because of his box score doesn't change that

Ross was a role player on an ECF team, Drummond has 2 wins in 14 Playoffs games, and those came with LBJ

[navyblue]

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

To be fair, there isn't a single GM in this league that'd take Drummond over Ross.

And half those picks were drafted in the mid-late 1st round. There really isn't a consensus BPA at that point. We can use that same logic when we selected OG, Delon and Norm. You can argue none of them were the "BPA" at that point in the draft.

And Suggs wasn't the obvious BPA here. Barnes was also a consensus top 5 pick in mock drafts and he was even more popular among NBA teams which is the most important. Bargnani over Aldridge, Araujo over Iggy were the most egregious as they were in the lottery.

Oh today for sure Ross> Drummond but the value of Andre Drummond for the first 5 seasons of his career was SKY HIGH. Be could have legitimately been flipped for a star.

Consensus is tricky if not at the top of the lottery. Reach is a more appropriate term. We've reached a few times and it's never paid off aside from Pascal.

none of the players were a reach; outside of bruno.
all of the players were picked within 5 positions of general mock draft expectations.

they werent the famous/sexy names when they were picked vs some of the players still available.

pascal was mocked to go from 25-early 30s range.

[Los_29]

Ross over Drummond
Araujo over Iggy
Pascal over Skal
Bruno over Capela
Michael Bradley over Zach Randolph
Charlie V over Danny Granger
Joey Graham over Gerald Green
Bargnani over Aldridge

1/8 ain't bad lol.

To be fair, there isn't a single GM in this league that'd take Drummond over Ross.

And half those picks were drafted in the mid-late 1st round. There really isn't a consensus BPA at that point. We can use that same logic when we selected OG, Delon and Norm. You can argue none of them were the "BPA" at that point in the draft.

And Suggs wasn't the obvious BPA here. Barnes was also a consensus top 5 pick in mock drafts and he was even more popular among NBA teams which is the most important. Bargnani over Aldridge, Araujo over Iggy were the most egregious as they were in the lottery.

Oh today for sure Ross> Drummond but the value of Andre Drummond for the first 5 seasons of his career was SKY HIGH. Be could have legitimately been flipped for a star.

Consensus is tricky if not at the top of the lottery. Reach is a more appropriate term. We've reached a few times and it's never paid off aside from Pascal.

Siakam, Graham and Bradley weren't considered reaches though. Once again, all these selections aside from Araujo/Iggy, Bargnani/LA, Charlie V and Bruno could all just be lumped in with every other draft selection we've made. And you're only picking Capela because he actually developed into a solid player. He was picked 25th, he wasn't the consensus BPA. Consensus BPA's don't exist at that stage in the draft.

[CANsportsguru]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

Kawhi was very, very raw coming into the NBA he was a defensive specialist. Barnes is far more advanced offensively then Kawhiwas coming into the league and he's also younger than Kawhi. The Spurs put in a lot of work and effort to getting Kawhi to where he eventually became one of the best players in the NBA.

I would say Barnes reminds me a lot of Magic Johnson (obviously I don't think he's going to turn into Magic) but that one handed pass up count off the dribble was pretty impressive. Apparently he tried to model his game after Magic hence playing pg at Florida State.

[OakleyDokely]

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

Kawhi was very, very raw coming into the NBA he was a defensive specialist. Barnes is far more advanced offensively then Kawhiwas coming into the league and he's also younger than Kawhi. The Spurs put in a lot of work and effort to getting Kawhi to where he eventually became one of the best players in the NBA.

I would say Barnes reminds me a lot of Magic Johnson (obviously I don't think he's going to turn into Magic) but that one handed pass up count off the dribble was pretty impressive. Apparently he tried to model his game after Magic hence playing pg at Florida State.

Barnes is still pretty raw offensively. You see flashes but his shot is still a work in progress, the floater needs some refining and the midrange game is still very underdeveloped.

Kawhi averaged 8/5/1 in 24 mins in his rookie season and I think Barnes will be around those numbers, just with more assists.

I think Barnes will be able to defend top players from day 1, but I don't expect much offensively early on other than playmaking. But that's okay, he wasn't drafted as a finished product.

[everdiso]

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

Kawhi was very, very raw coming into the NBA he was a defensive specialist. Barnes is far more advanced offensively then Kawhiwas coming into the league and he's also younger than Kawhi. The Spurs put in a lot of work and effort to getting Kawhi to where he eventually became one of the best players in the NBA.

I would say Barnes reminds me a lot of Magic Johnson (obviously I don't think he's going to turn into Magic) but that one handed pass up count off the dribble was pretty impressive. Apparently he tried to model his game after Magic hence playing pg at Florida State.

Barnes is still pretty raw offensively. You see flashes but his shot is still a work in progress, the floater needs some refining and the midrange game is still very underdeveloped.

Kawhi averaged 8/5/1 in 24 mins in his rookie season and I think Barnes will be around those numbers, just with more assists.

I think Barnes will be able to defend top players from day 1, but I don't expect much offensively early on other than playmaking. But that's okay, he wasn't drafted as a finished product.

tbh i think there will be all sorts of opportunities for him to get buckets around the rim, from his own drives, from off ball cuts, and from offensive rebounding.

I also think there's a path to many more minutes and shots than Kawhi got that year. Kawhi probably should have played more but he was on a team with all sorts of established vets getting their minutes...Duncan/Parker/Ginobli were ball dominant shot takers, with everyone elese pretty much glue, not really lied on for ballhandling or shot creation. Even Green as the sharpshooter had more of an offensive role than Kawhi.

Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby as the only 3 established players leaves much more opportunity open for another ballhandler and shot creator. I'd expect Scottie to get plenty more points and assists than Kawhi did.

[OhCanada1091]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

If we're coming up with dream comparisons, Scottie is more Kawhi than Giannis.

So as for a comparison the ones he usually gets is Green, Simmons and Giannis. I tend to lean more towards Green in playstyle. Why? Well its because both of those guys are just going to make the right play. Whether its a quick one touch pass, taking the open shot, driving/drawing the defender to find an open man, helping on the defense end etc. Also just the way he processes the game.

Thats what I think his base is...and Kawhi is what I think they are trying to teach all these guys to be like offensively and in the halfcourt. How far can he get with his touch and offensive game? I'd say pretty far. You guys remember Siakam's first two years? He missed so many open layups even, forget about shots. His balance and coordination were so bad he looked like those old black and white cartoons where people would slip on bannana peels.

[OakleyDokely]

Kawhi was very, very raw coming into the NBA he was a defensive specialist. Barnes is far more advanced offensively then Kawhiwas coming into the league and he's also younger than Kawhi. The Spurs put in a lot of work and effort to getting Kawhi to where he eventually became one of the best players in the NBA.

I would say Barnes reminds me a lot of Magic Johnson (obviously I don't think he's going to turn into Magic) but that one handed pass up count off the dribble was pretty impressive. Apparently he tried to model his game after Magic hence playing pg at Florida State.

Barnes is still pretty raw offensively. You see flashes but his shot is still a work in progress, the floater needs some refining and the midrange game is still very underdeveloped.

Kawhi averaged 8/5/1 in 24 mins in his rookie season and I think Barnes will be around those numbers, just with more assists.

I think Barnes will be able to defend top players from day 1, but I don't expect much offensively early on other than playmaking. But that's okay, he wasn't drafted as a finished product.

tbh i think there will be all sorts of opportunities for him to get buckets around the rim, from his own drives, from off ball cuts, and from offensive rebounding.

I also think there's a path to many more minutes and shots than Kawhi got that year. Kawhi probably should have played more but he was on a team with all sorts of established vets getting their minutes...Duncan/Parker/Ginobli were ball dominant shot takers, with everyone elese pretty much glue, not really lied on for ballhandling or shot creation. Even Green as the sharpshooter had more of an offensive role than Kawhi.

Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby as the only 3 established players leaves much more opportunity open for another ballhandler and shot creator. I'd expect Scottie to get plenty more points and assists than Kawhi did.

I do think he would look a lot better offensively if he played more minutes with the starters, he'd basically be the 4th or 5th option. If he comes off the bench, he'd be playing with inferior players and more will likely fall on his shoulders offensively and the less efficient he becomes.

OG and Siakam started many games in their rookie years so starting Barnes wouldn't be unprecedented for a Masai led team.

[everdiso]

Barnes is still pretty raw offensively. You see flashes but his shot is still a work in progress, the floater needs some refining and the midrange game is still very underdeveloped.

Kawhi averaged 8/5/1 in 24 mins in his rookie season and I think Barnes will be around those numbers, just with more assists.

I think Barnes will be able to defend top players from day 1, but I don't expect much offensively early on other than playmaking. But that's okay, he wasn't drafted as a finished product.

tbh i think there will be all sorts of opportunities for him to get buckets around the rim, from his own drives, from off ball cuts, and from offensive rebounding.

I also think there's a path to many more minutes and shots than Kawhi got that year. Kawhi probably should have played more but he was on a team with all sorts of established vets getting their minutes...Duncan/Parker/Ginobli were ball dominant shot takers, with everyone elese pretty much glue, not really lied on for ballhandling or shot creation. Even Green as the sharpshooter had more of an offensive role than Kawhi.

Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby as the only 3 established players leaves much more opportunity open for another ballhandler and shot creator. I'd expect Scottie to get plenty more points and assists than Kawhi did.

I do think he would look a lot better offensively if he played more minutes with the starters, he'd basically be the 4th or 5th option. If he comes off the bench, he'd be playing with inferior players and more will likely fall on his shoulders offensively and the less efficient he becomes.

OG and Siakam started many games in their rookie years so starting Barnes wouldn't be unprecedented for a Masai led team.

yeah I think people are being unreasonably shy about how many minutes to expect Barnes to get.

Here's rookie starts and minutes in recent years:

Bargnani (#1) 25.1mpg (2 starts)
Davis (#13) 24.6mpg (17 starts)
Jonas (#5) 23.9mpg (57 starts)
Demar (#9) 21.6mpg (65 starts)
Anunoby (#23) 20.0mpg (62 starts)
Flynn (#29) 19.7mpg (14 starts)
Ross (#8) 17.0mpg (2 starts)
Siakam (#27) 15.6mpg (38 starts)
Poeltl (#9) 11.6mpg (4 starts)
Wright (#20) 8.5mpg (1 starts)
Caboclo (#20) 2.9mpg (0 starts)

Given that the only guys that can likely match Barnes defensively as rooks here are OG and Siakam, and given that Barnes is likely much better with the ball in his hands than either of those two were as rooks, I think we should all be ready for Barnes to top this list in minutes per game this year.

[c3luong]

20 - 25 minutes is realistic based on the above list.

[OhCanada1091]

tbh i think there will be all sorts of opportunities for him to get buckets around the rim, from his own drives, from off ball cuts, and from offensive rebounding.

I also think there's a path to many more minutes and shots than Kawhi got that year. Kawhi probably should have played more but he was on a team with all sorts of established vets getting their minutes...Duncan/Parker/Ginobli were ball dominant shot takers, with everyone elese pretty much glue, not really lied on for ballhandling or shot creation. Even Green as the sharpshooter had more of an offensive role than Kawhi.

Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby as the only 3 established players leaves much more opportunity open for another ballhandler and shot creator. I'd expect Scottie to get plenty more points and assists than Kawhi did.

I do think he would look a lot better offensively if he played more minutes with the starters, he'd basically be the 4th or 5th option. If he comes off the bench, he'd be playing with inferior players and more will likely fall on his shoulders offensively and the less efficient he becomes.

OG and Siakam started many games in their rookie years so starting Barnes wouldn't be unprecedented for a Masai led team.

yeah I think people are being unreasonably shy about how many minutes to expect Barnes to get.

Here's rookie starts and minutes in recent years:

Bargnani (#1) 25.1mpg (2 starts)
Davis (#13) 24.6mpg (17 starts)
Jonas (#5) 23.9mpg (57 starts)
Demar (#9) 21.6mpg (65 starts)
Anunoby (#23) 20.0mpg (62 starts)
Flynn (#29) 19.7mpg (14 starts)
Ross (#8) 17.0mpg (2 starts)
Siakam (#27) 15.6mpg (38 starts)
Poeltl (#9) 11.6mpg (4 starts)
Wright (#20) 8.5mpg (1 starts)
Caboclo (#20) 2.9mpg (0 starts)

Given that the only guys that can likely match Barnes defensively as rooks here are OG and Siakam, and given that Barnes is likely much better with the ball in his hands than either of those two were as rooks, I think we should all be ready for Barnes to top this list in minutes per game this year.

Scottie Barnes Rookie Season

28-32 minutes per game

12 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.0 bpg