Windhorst - "Sixers wouldn't give up Maxey"

[Hipster Doofus]

For this one, we will have to wait a couple of years. Of course, it would be too easy to go for 6'2 Maxey looking at the last 4 days.

As it was stated earlier, there must be a reason Precious was ahead of Maxey in one of the most popular recruiting rankings
In 2019, 247Sports had Precious at 9 and Maxey at 10 in their recruiting rankings.

My money is on the 6'8/7'2 guy. A couple of years, guys.

Alright then, let's base our NBA decisions on recruiting rankings from three years ago vs. the current product on the floor and potential based on what we've seen so far.

Current MVP Nikola Jokic, Tony Kukoc, Rashard Lewis, Manu Ginobili, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Lou Williams, Marc Gasol, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon etc.

What do they all have in common? All are second round picks. All "slipped" through the popular recruiting rankings...

Sometimes "slippage" just happens, and that's OK.

Achiuwa was taken 20th. Maxey was taken 21st. They're identical. You could've flipped a coin and Maxey would've been taken 20th and Achiuwa 21st.

p.s. for those who watch every Sixers games, Maxey has been showing flashes of this not just for the last 4 days, but since last year as a rookie. He's just dramatically increased his production in his 2nd year. The dude is happy-go-lucky and lives in the gym.

[TrustFundBaby]

What some people in this thread don’t understand is that prototypes are just prototypes. Achiuwa right now is closer to a prototype than a productive player. He’s a long, strong, athletic guy with good D that can handle the ball a bit and hit the three. But he’s still a negative on the court, therefore his positives do not make up for the negatives.

Over NBA history there have been many guys who had great qualities on paper but have never been able to put it all together. Their number far oughtweigh the number of guys who lived up to the hype and have developed as projected. When some people in this thread are talking about the potential version of Achiuwa, they should realize that they’re talking about a player who’ll most likely never be. A Siakam-like development is very rare. I honestly think that there’s a 20% chance that Achiuwa ends up being an average starter, and about 10% chance that he becomes even better than one (an average starter is better than most of the league and would be pretty amazing to have, BTW).

In a vacuum your completely right, most of us Precious boosters are hoping his prototype pans out and like you mentioned many guys with fantastic tools don't pan out.

That said TOR is considered a premier organization for scouting & developing. We've seen the work they did with Siakam, Powell, OG etc.

You can't discount TORs track record in this regard. So with that said, given the choice between an Athletic 6'9 big who can switch everything & shoot who is still raw vs a 6'1 scoring combo guard, it's very easy to choose potential in this case since TOR has a track record of developing said 6'9 bigs.

We saw the jump Achiuwa made in season, the work he's put in with the org is already bearing fruit. I don't think these 2 games change that.

Achiuwa ceiling>Maxey Ceiling.

Therein lies the problem. You're making the assumption that Toronto's system can turn any player into gold and fallaciously making an argument out of it.

You're ignoring the fact that efficacy needs one foundational item in order to happen, reality. This 'ceiling' that you speak of is hard to justify as it is based on opinion and a best case scenario based on a universal acceptance of what your version of ceiling entails. It hasn't happened yet and you're predicting that it will. Anyone can easily disagree with you as a result as it hasn't been proven yet. Why? Because there is no reality behind it.

The reality is, a player needs to be efficient enough to stay on the floor. Maxey has been a starter averaging 35 mins on a 50 win team producing very high percentages. You can argue as to why he has accomplished this all you want but it doesn't take away from the fact that he has already done it.

In the playoffs Maxey has been able to accomplish 30.5 pts/6.5R/5.0A/11-16 FGA 68%/ 4-7 3PA 57% in two playoff games versus a 50 win team and you can see why reality trumps any speculatory opinion someone has.

It's not an easy feat to do regardless of how much you downplay it. Again, it has actually been done. Let's give credit where credit is due. There are actually hard numbers to prove that he has a higher ceiling than Precious. Again, not opinions, facts. I'd be happy to hear any facts that discredit this otherwise.

I don't believe TOR can turn any player into gold. Flynn looks like a bust. Bruno was a bust, Delon Wright was meh. OG has exceeded expectations but he never took that step many hoped of him to become a wing scorer etc.

You seem to be saying that current production is the biggest marker for deciding someone's ceiling. I disagree with that. In a cross position and role comparison like this, you can't simply decide this early. Yes, Maxey is killing it this series, credit to him. But he came into the league more skilled. He's not a project like Precious. How many guys do you think can replicate what Maxey is doing playing behind Harden and Embiid? Jordan Poole, Colin Sexton, Tyler Herro etc can all go off like this. And I'm not even considering the more proven stars of this scoring guard archetype like a Donovan Mitchell, CJ McCollum, Beal. Hell, I think a guy like Bones Hyland could go off like this in 2-3 years.

Conversely, when Achiuwa shows his flashes, how many guys can replicate that? It's a lot smaller, because there aren't as many players as athletic, fluid, and strong while being 6'9+ and able to shoot the 3. Achiuwa has the potential to be a stretch big who can protect the paint.

And it's not like it's just flashes, Achiuwa has shown something though. Post ASB, he averaged 12/6 on 39% from 3.

I'll put it another way. I think players of Maxey's archetype are more common than those of Precious. And I think Precious types are inherently more valuable since they can play both ends.

[ash_k]

For this one, we will have to wait a couple of years. Of course, it would be too easy to go for 6'2 Maxey looking at the last 4 days.

As it was stated earlier, there must be a reason Precious was ahead of Maxey in one of the most popular recruiting rankings
In 2019, 247Sports had Precious at 9 and Maxey at 10 in their recruiting rankings.

My money is on the 6'8/7'2 guy. A couple of years, guys.

Alright then, let's base our NBA decisions on recruiting rankings from three years ago vs. the current product on the floor and potential based on what we've seen so far.

Current MVP Nikola Jokic, Tony Kukoc, Rashard Lewis, Manu Ginobili, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Lou Williams, Marc Gasol, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon etc.

What do they all have in common? All are second round picks. All "slipped" through the popular recruiting rankings...

Sometimes "slippage" just happens, and that's OK.

Achiuwa was taken 20th. Maxey was taken 21st. They're identical. You could've flipped a coin and Maxey would've been taken 20th and Achiuwa 21st.

p.s. for those who watch every Sixers games, Maxey has been showing flashes of this not just for the last 4 days, but since last year as a rookie. He's just dramatically increased his production in his 2nd year. The dude is happy-go-lucky and lives in the gym.

We are talking about potential and ceiling.
Precious would not be the first nor the last that wouldn't reach his full potential. The point being Precious is not just some random prospect coming out of nowhere. He has shown great potential since high-school as that ranking shows ..Just like a Maxey is not some random prospect that we have just discovered in the last 4 days. All Kentucky guys get the spotlight.
Under a proven program of development like ours, my money is on the 6'8/7'2 guy. The league belongs to them. Let's check back in a couple of years.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's with the Sixers, who cares at this point.

Follow it up on the Sixers board.

[OakleyDokely]

He's with the Sixers, who cares at this point.

Follow it up on the Sixers board.

It's ridiculous that this has become a thing. These two guys are completely different players that are in no way related to each other.

You have a couple posters on this board who like to pretend rumours are facts. Windhorst has made it quite clear Morey wouldn't trade Maxey so he was never going to be a Raptor whether you like him over Precious or not.

[Los_29]

He's with the Sixers, who cares at this point.

Follow it up on the Sixers board.

It's ridiculous that this has become a thing. These two guys are completely different players that are in no way related to each other.

You have a couple posters on this board who like to pretend rumours are facts. Windhorst has made it quite clear Morey wouldn't trade Maxey so he was never going to be a Raptor whether you like him over Precious or not.

I think it's tough because they thought they finally got him. This could've been their first W of the year. But Windhorst comes out three days ago saying flat out that Masai wanted Maxey from the Sixers and that Morey said no. This decision cost the Sixers a championship and results in Masai looking like a genius once again.

Now they can't even celebrate the success of Maxey because Masai wanted him along. The more success Maxey has, the better Masai looks. And the only way Morey can redeem himself is if they win a championship.

I think Moses Brown and Tyrese Maxey are the most talked about non-Raptor players on this forum.

[Steelo Green]

So now Masai being greedy and not taking what was clearly more than enough (Maxey + first) is another notch on the belt for Masai when he ended up with Precious?

I need to go to the same gym some people do to learn these mental gymnastics.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's with the Sixers, who cares at this point.

Follow it up on the Sixers board.

It's ridiculous that this has become a thing. These two guys are completely different players that are in no way related to each other.

You have a couple posters on this board who like to pretend rumours are facts. Windhorst has made it quite clear Morey wouldn't trade Maxey so he was never going to be a Raptor whether you like him over Precious or not.

I think it's tough because they thought they finally got him. This could've been their first W of the year. But Windhorst comes out three days ago saying flat out that Masai wanted Maxey from the Sixers and that Morey said no. This decision cost the Sixers a championship and results in Masai looking like a genius once again.

Now they can't even celebrate the success of Maxey because Masai wanted him along. The more success Maxey has, the better Masai looks. And the only way Morey can redeem himself is if they win a championship.

I think Moses Brown and Tyrese Maxey are the most talked about non-Raptor players on this forum.

Simping for other teams players is for their board. I'm sure enough of us are sick of it at this point.

[PhilBlackson]

It sucks we didn't get him, move on.

The kid is a lightening bolt on the court something how John Wall was but not as tall/long but better shooting. I don't think he'd be as effective here without the gravity Embiid and Harden have on a defence but nonetheless he's still a really, really nice young talent and good for them that so far he's Harden's saving grace.

[Los_29]

It's ridiculous that this has become a thing. These two guys are completely different players that are in no way related to each other.

You have a couple posters on this board who like to pretend rumours are facts. Windhorst has made it quite clear Morey wouldn't trade Maxey so he was never going to be a Raptor whether you like him over Precious or not.

I think it's tough because they thought they finally got him. This could've been their first W of the year. But Windhorst comes out three days ago saying flat out that Masai wanted Maxey from the Sixers and that Morey said no. This decision cost the Sixers a championship and results in Masai looking like a genius once again.

Now they can't even celebrate the success of Maxey because Masai wanted him along. The more success Maxey has, the better Masai looks. And the only way Morey can redeem himself is if they win a championship.

I think Moses Brown and Tyrese Maxey are the most talked about non-Raptor players on this forum.

Simping for other teams players is for their board. I'm sure enough of us are sick of it at this point.

Yeah but the funniest part is if Maxey wasn't linked to this team in anyway then they'd just see him as another undersized combo guard in the mould of Collin Sexton.

They constantly came on here to celebrate Maxey's good games because they believed that Masai could've traded for him. Now every basket that Maxey makes just makes Masai look even better. lol

[Pooh_Jeter]

This is actually what Windhorst is referring to when he says the 76ers rejected dealing Maxey...

"For Philadelphia, they are permitted to trade '21 and '23 first-round picks - this year's pick and 2023 - plus they have Tyrese Maxey, their young guard out of Kentucky, and Thybulle, Matisse Thybulle. Toronto, they would like all of those pieces. From what I've been told, Philly has not been willing to put that whole package in there."

This is his OWN reporting at the deadline. We have confirmation from Lowe/Marks post deadline pod that Maxey and salary filler alone was on the table, but not all the picks + Thybulle.

It was a clear mistake and it's why people are still talking about it. I don't think anyone takes the comments of a poster who has changed their tune on Maxey 15 times in this thread alone seriously.

[Psubs]

It sucks we didn't get him, move on.

The kid is a lightening bolt on the court something how John Wall was but not as tall/long but better shooting. I don't think he'd be as effective here without the gravity Embiid and Harden have on a defence but nonetheless he's still a really, really nice young talent and good for them that so far he's Harden's saving grace.

But but...

PG FVV - Maxey
SG Bane/Trent
SF OG - Barnes
PF Barnes - Siakam
C Siakam - Birch

[Chandan]

So now Masai being greedy and not taking what was clearly more than enough (Maxey + first) is another notch on the belt for Masai when he ended up with Precious?

I need to go to the same gym some people do to learn these mental gymnastics.

Masai is infalliable~

[The Duke]

In sum....

There was/is no credible source that states that Philly offered Maxey + 1st rounder

....Move on

[OakleyDokely]

This is actually what Windhorst is referring to when he says the 76ers rejected dealing Maxey...

"For Philadelphia, they are permitted to trade '21 and '23 first-round picks - this year's pick and 2023 - plus they have Tyrese Maxey, their young guard out of Kentucky, and Thybulle, Matisse Thybulle. Toronto, they would like all of those pieces. From what I've been told, Philly has not been willing to put that whole package in there."

This is his OWN reporting at the deadline. We have confirmation from Lowe/Marks post deadline pod that Maxey and salary filler alone was on the table, but not all the picks + Thybulle.

It was a clear mistake and it's why people are still talking about it. I don't think anyone takes the comments of a poster who has changed their tune on Maxey 15 times in this thread alone seriously.

Well, Windhorst must have received updated info because that's not what he's claiming now.

[Los_29]

In sum....

There was/is no credible source that states that Philly offered Maxey + 1st rounder

....Move on

I agree. Time to move on. I think it will happen now after this Windhorst report.

[Los_29]

This is actually what Windhorst is referring to when he says the 76ers rejected dealing Maxey...

"For Philadelphia, they are permitted to trade '21 and '23 first-round picks - this year's pick and 2023 - plus they have Tyrese Maxey, their young guard out of Kentucky, and Thybulle, Matisse Thybulle. Toronto, they would like all of those pieces. From what I've been told, Philly has not been willing to put that whole package in there."

This is his OWN reporting at the deadline. We have confirmation from Lowe/Marks post deadline pod that Maxey and salary filler alone was on the table, but not all the picks + Thybulle.

It was a clear mistake and it's why people are still talking about it. I don't think anyone takes the comments of a poster who has changed their tune on Maxey 15 times in this thread alone seriously.

From April 16, 2022:

Windhorst - "Raptors were ready to trade Kyle Lowry to the Sixers last year but they wanted Tyrese Maxey. The Sixers wouldn't give him up."

I think everyone's tune has remained quite consistent on here.
- Maxey wasn't available according to Windhorst
- Maxey is better than Precious right now
- Precious has the higher ceiling

[OakleyDokely]

So now Masai being greedy and not taking what was clearly more than enough (Maxey + first) is another notch on the belt for Masai when he ended up with Precious?

I need to go to the same gym some people do to learn these mental gymnastics.

You don't even need to know how to read. Just have to listen to Windhorst's own words. Can't even do that.

[Los_29]

Just a few stats on Maxey to highlight how he scores a lot of his baskets and how he has benefitted from playing with Embiid and more recently Harden as well.

Maxey has attempted 309 threes this year. He was wide open (>6 ft) on 61% of those attempts. For reference, Fred's at 35%, Steph is at 26% and our good friend Collin Sexton is at 33% (last year). Maxey has attempted 96 threes when he was open by 4-6ft. From 2-4ft he's attempted only 22 threes and from 0-2 feet he's attempted only 1 three.

7% of his three point attempts have been when a defender was within 4ft of him. 93% of his three point attempts were when he was open to wide open.

[PerfectJab]

Just a few stats on Maxey to highlight how he scores a lot of his baskets and how he has benefitted from playing with Embiid and more recently Harden as well.

Maxey has attempted 309 threes this year. He was wide open (>6 ft) on 61% of those attempts. For reference, Fred's at 35%, Steph is at 26% and our good friend Collin Sexton is at 33% (last year). Maxey has attempted 96 threes when he was open by 4-6ft. From 2-4ft he's attempted only 22 threes and from 0-2 feet he's attempted only 1 three.

7% of his three point attempts have been when a defender was within 4ft of him. 93% of his three point attempts were when he was open to wide open.

I don't get it, what's your point? That he has good shot selection?

He's getting docked for playing well within the roster he is playing for? You're basically saying he's not good because of who he plays with yet there are people here spewing bull that Precious is of higher value because he fits within the system that he plays with. You don't think future All NBA superstar Precious has benefited? Such a silly double standard, if you're going to make an argument at least apply it universally and not just to bring another down. You won't, because the argument disintegrates when you do.

I'd love to see how Precious and Maxey stats compare. Let's talk reality again.