Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Raps in 4]

I always feel he could and should take many more shots but then you look at the boxscore recently he has been leading us in Field Goal attempts every time..
and He really should not take more than 4 3s per game.
You are a midrange-player Scottie, accept it, like all the all-time greats have been.

He needs a 3pt shot, or an aggressive attacking game. Just spamming mid-range shots greatly limits his ceiling as a scorer.

[Badonkadonk]

I always feel he could and should take many more shots but then you look at the boxscore recently he has been leading us in Field Goal attempts every time..
and He really should not take more than 4 3s per game.
You are a midrange-player Scottie, accept it, like all the all-time greats have been.

He needs a 3pt shot, or an aggressive attacking game. Just spamming mid-range shots greatly limits his ceiling as a scorer.

One thing that I've seen improve for him is his footwork in the midrange and how he attacks the basket. He's getting savvier, drew 7 FTs last night and 10 the game before.

Granted the Hawks were a good matchup for him but If he's learning to leverage his physicality into more calls, then that's another path to efficiency to round out his game.

[dTox]

Read on Twitter

[HangTime]

The "Bad 3s" are for Rep development, put in the minds of the defence that he's a willing shooter. When the shot starts falling (I think it will, like the first 30 games of last year) , then the defence will be in flux. It'll be a comfortable 3, or a blow by the defender closing out.

So. He shot 30.1% on 193 attempts as a rook, 28.1% on 224 attempts in his second season, he's shooting 27.8% over 162 attempts so far this season. But because he shot 38.9% on 162 attempts over those first 30 games last year (and then 28.4% over 134 attempts in the next 30 games), we're supposed to look at that as the likely eventuality?

I don't see it. He shot 35% for a month in 2023, shot 36% or better in two different months as a rookie, and he still normalized to a 28-30% shooter. It seems far more likely that it was just a shooting streak, as he's previously enjoyed.

I mean right now, it doesn't mean much for him to be taking these shots because it facilitates us losing and that's about all we can hope for at the moment unless we want to take a firm grip on mediocrity. But it is something we'll have to watch, because it'll become habit-forming.

The difference is Those first 30ish games were with OG taking on main defencive assignment.
The next 30 game was an on the fly change, Scottie taking on those defensive assignments, while integrating RJ and IQ on offence.

This season, the eye and ankle injuries mess with his shot, but I'm glad he kept taking the pull up 3s, in my opinion it's a blessing, and it'll affect percentages (which people keep harping on) but it's part of the growth.

Just remember this process is not for the present (if they go in, it's a bonus) it's for the future.

In his rookie year the media wanted him to be a big, and do centre things. Sure he could do it, but it was clear, very early on (atleast to me) he should get more on-ball reps.

For some reason, people think year 4 is the defining year, that might be true for a "normal/standard type" of player.

His style leads to a "new - aged #1 option", not the current definition of a #1 option.

Thank goodness we got Darko last year.

[anotherhomer]

The "Bad 3s" are for Rep development, put in the minds of the defence that he's a willing shooter. When the shot starts falling (I think it will, like the first 30 games of last year) , then the defence will be in flux. It'll be a comfortable 3, or a blow by the defender closing out.

So. He shot 30.1% on 193 attempts as a rook, 28.1% on 224 attempts in his second season, he's shooting 27.8% over 162 attempts so far this season. But because he shot 38.9% on 162 attempts over those first 30 games last year (and then 28.4% over 134 attempts in the next 30 games), we're supposed to look at that as the likely eventuality?

I don't see it. He shot 35% for a month in 2023, shot 36% or better in two different months as a rookie, and he still normalized to a 28-30% shooter. It seems far more likely that it was just a shooting streak, as he's previously enjoyed.

I mean right now, it doesn't mean much for him to be taking these shots because it facilitates us losing and that's about all we can hope for at the moment unless we want to take a firm grip on mediocrity. But it is something we'll have to watch, because it'll become habit-forming.

The difference is Those first 30ish games were with OG taking on main defencive assignment.
The next 30 game was an on the fly change, Scottie taking on those defensive assignments, while integrating RJ and IQ on offence.

This season, the eye and ankle injuries mess with his shot, but I'm glad he kept taking the pull up 3s, in my opinion it's a blessing, and it'll affect percentages (which people keep harping on) but it's part of the growth.

Just remember this process is not for the present (if they go in, it's a bonus) it's for the future.

In his rookie year the media wanted him to be a big, and do centre things. Sure he could do it, but it was clear, very early on (atleast to me) he should get more on-ball reps.

For some reason, people think year 4 is the defining year, that might be true for a "normal/standard type" of player.

His style leads to a "new - aged #1 option", not the current definition of a #1 option.

Thank goodness we got Darko last year.

agree, for those crapping on Darko, he's really bringing out the best in Darko, which is what you need

[tsherkin]

The difference is Those first 30ish games were with OG taking on main defencive assignment.
The next 30 game was an on the fly change, Scottie taking on those defensive assignments, while integrating RJ and IQ on offence.

This season, the eye and ankle injuries mess with his shot, but I'm glad he kept taking the pull up 3s, in my opinion it's a blessing, and it'll affect percentages (which people keep harping on) but it's part of the growth.

Yeah, I mean, our season is lost, so there is no reason for him NOT to do it at the moment, I agree. I just don't see a lot of improvement, and a 30-game sample means approximately nothing to me.

For some reason, people think year 4 is the defining year, that might be true for a "normal/standard type" of player.

Yes, because the screaming majority of guys who eventually make it in a meaningful star capacity were already showing it well before this season.

His style leads to a "new - aged #1 option", not the current definition of a #1 option.

What does that even mean?

[PushDaRock]

So. He shot 30.1% on 193 attempts as a rook, 28.1% on 224 attempts in his second season, he's shooting 27.8% over 162 attempts so far this season. But because he shot 38.9% on 162 attempts over those first 30 games last year (and then 28.4% over 134 attempts in the next 30 games), we're supposed to look at that as the likely eventuality?

I don't see it. He shot 35% for a month in 2023, shot 36% or better in two different months as a rookie, and he still normalized to a 28-30% shooter. It seems far more likely that it was just a shooting streak, as he's previously enjoyed.

I mean right now, it doesn't mean much for him to be taking these shots because it facilitates us losing and that's about all we can hope for at the moment unless we want to take a firm grip on mediocrity. But it is something we'll have to watch, because it'll become habit-forming.

The difference is Those first 30ish games were with OG taking on main defencive assignment.
The next 30 game was an on the fly change, Scottie taking on those defensive assignments, while integrating RJ and IQ on offence.

This season, the eye and ankle injuries mess with his shot, but I'm glad he kept taking the pull up 3s, in my opinion it's a blessing, and it'll affect percentages (which people keep harping on) but it's part of the growth.

Just remember this process is not for the present (if they go in, it's a bonus) it's for the future.

In his rookie year the media wanted him to be a big, and do centre things. Sure he could do it, but it was clear, very early on (atleast to me) he should get more on-ball reps.

For some reason, people think year 4 is the defining year, that might be true for a "normal/standard type" of player.

His style leads to a "new - aged #1 option", not the current definition of a #1 option.

Thank goodness we got Darko last year.

agree, for those crapping on Darko, he's really bringing out the best in Darko, which is what you need

I certainly hope Darko can bring out the best in Darko because nobody else can help him do that.

[Tha Cynic]

I maintain that he is a 20-8-6.5 guy with great defence when not tasked to guard guards and yet he:

Has no 3
Has no go to...now mid range is changing that
Has no 1st step
Has no one who creates easy baskets for him
Has 2 PG's who are non shooters..IQ is needed
Has no #1 scorer to draw gravity making it easier for others to score including Barnes

If just a FEW of these things improve, his numbers improve. He still won't be a #1 scorer because his mindset is pass 1st plus he isn't a natural shooter. But he certainly can be the 2nd best player on a great team.

The improvement from Barnes is pretty obvious if you watch every game.

This is his first season where he's not expected to win coming in. This is first season to just try whatever he wants on the court. Banchero, Cade and others have all had season where they could just into games and take bad volume shots they weren't good at. This is that season for Barnes. He no longer has Siakam, or FVV or Nurse or OG to play with. He's playing with Barrett and Quickley who don't do anything to bend the defense and he's learning how to operate and score while creating for himself in the halfcourt. He's also showing a goto area in the midrange while doing this. These are again things that players who get drafted into perpetually losing teams are able to just go out and experiment day 1.

I think there's a lot to look at when you look at stats and following other players historically. There's I think some indication at least that this may not be a similar case as we have seen with others in terms of trajectory. We have a situation where Barnes is going from a good team where he was one of the support players to now the top player on a team expected to tank. I'm pretty optimistic about what I have seen on the court. I also think that 3 point shooting will be better next season as he has never been this bad.

[tsherkin]

I think there's a lot to look at when you look at stats and following other players historically. There's I think some indication at least that this may not be a similar case as we have seen with others in terms of trajectory. We have a situation where Barnes is going from a good team where he was one of the support players to now the top player on a team expected to tank. I'm pretty optimistic about what I have seen on the court. I also think that 3 point shooting will be better next season as he has never been this bad.

That isn't true. He shot 28.1% in his second season, he's basically there again now. He's generally been proving that he's comfortably around a 30% 3pt shooter for his career to date, with a month or two each season where he looks competent.

[Tha Cynic]

I think there's a lot to look at when you look at stats and following other players historically. There's I think some indication at least that this may not be a similar case as we have seen with others in terms of trajectory. We have a situation where Barnes is going from a good team where he was one of the support players to now the top player on a team expected to tank. I'm pretty optimistic about what I have seen on the court. I also think that 3 point shooting will be better next season as he has never been this bad.

That isn't true. He shot 28.1% in his second season, he's basically there again now. He's generally been proving that he's comfortably around a 30% 3pt shooter for his career to date, with a month or two each season where he looks competent.

He's also taking more bad shots from 3 intentionally, and it seems to be part of the development process. I don't think he takes those shots all season when this team is actually trying to win. They had him playing PG where he's clearly not comfortable. We can see where he's very efficient and how we can use him there effectively. There's a lot happening here where we are intentionally putting him in places where he's not comfortable

[tsherkin]

He's also taking more bad shots from 3 intentionally, and it seems to be part of the development process. I don't think he takes those shots all season when this team is actually trying to win. They had him playing PG where he's clearly not comfortable. We can see where he's very efficient and how we can use him there effectively. There's a lot happening here where we are intentionally putting him in places where he's not comfortable

It's possible. He takes and bricks a lot of open 3s as well. He's been particularly useless at catch-and-shoot 3pt shooting this year at just over 29%, and that's not really coming a ton from bad looks. And he's shooting 29.3% on 3s where the closest defender is more than 6 feet away. So shot selection plays into this only so much.

[HiJiNX]

Not sure why we are expecting Barnes’ developmental trajectory to be the same as other all stars when what makes him effective is different than other all-stars, he’s just getting his feet wet as the main option (which he wasn’t in high school or college, or his first 2.5 years in the league). And the fact is he’s showing plenty of signs of being a perennial all-star who can drive your offence. The mid-range has been a revelation. He’s generating gravity and doing very effective things with it. Like stars do. Halfway through year 4, the year in which stars start to look like stars, well, he’s starting to look like just that himself.

Maybe we should exercise a bit of patience and allow him to keep building on the signs he’s been showing this year. I think we forget how good he looked for a month before his eye and then ankle injury. He was mediocre while coming back from both of those injuries (sort of like Banchero coming back from his injury right now), and since he’s obviously healthy again, he’s looking great again. It just seems a bunch of folks believe the bad stretches represent the truth more than the good stretches do, which is a weird bias considering there has been more good than bad since it’s been Barnes’ team.

[sidsid]

I always feel he could and should take many more shots but then you look at the boxscore recently he has been leading us in Field Goal attempts every time..
and He really should not take more than 4 3s per game.
You are a midrange-player Scottie, accept it, like all the all-time greats have been.

He needs a 3pt shot, or an aggressive attacking game. Just spamming mid-range shots greatly limits his ceiling as a scorer.

One thing that I've seen improve for him is his footwork in the midrange and how he attacks the basket. He's getting savvier, drew 7 FTs last night and 10 the game before.

Granted the Hawks were a good matchup for him but If he's learning to leverage his physicality into more calls, then that's another path to efficiency to round out his game.

You can still see the parts where he's leaning into playmaking instead of planning his counter on offense. He had a pass to him while driving into Okongwu on a break and when the layup option was closing he looked for the pass instead of planning to stop and fade (and then look for the pass). Lead to a block, but it's the part of his game where he's still figuring out order of operations when he's at his spots and the first option is gone.

He's most comfortable right at the elbows where he's got a couple reads to go to and then can do a turn around or a pop with good form.

[anotherhomer]

The difference is Those first 30ish games were with OG taking on main defencive assignment.
The next 30 game was an on the fly change, Scottie taking on those defensive assignments, while integrating RJ and IQ on offence.

This season, the eye and ankle injuries mess with his shot, but I'm glad he kept taking the pull up 3s, in my opinion it's a blessing, and it'll affect percentages (which people keep harping on) but it's part of the growth.

Just remember this process is not for the present (if they go in, it's a bonus) it's for the future.

In his rookie year the media wanted him to be a big, and do centre things. Sure he could do it, but it was clear, very early on (atleast to me) he should get more on-ball reps.

For some reason, people think year 4 is the defining year, that might be true for a "normal/standard type" of player.

His style leads to a "new - aged #1 option", not the current definition of a #1 option.

Thank goodness we got Darko last year.

agree, for those crapping on Darko, he's really bringing out the best in Darko, which is what you need

I certainly hope Darko can bring out the best in Darko because nobody else can help him do that.

my bad, meant scottie....

[Scase]

He just takes bad shots from 3. You'll see him take the 3 instead of make a simple swing to a better shooter. He's been given the greenlight and so he's just guiltlessly chucking.

10-14 feet he's been as good as anyone, but once he starts to get pushed further out it's really bad.

I've been saying this all season, I don't have an issue with him taking 3's, I have an issue with him taking bad ones. He takes 3's like he's a 40% shooter, when he should be taking them as a specialist. He's got a good touch in the corner and we should find him there more often.

The "Bad 3s" are for Rep development, put in the minds of the defence that he's a willing shooter. When the shot starts falling (I think it will, like the first 30 games of last year) , then the defence will be in flux. It'll be a comfortable 3, or a blow by the defender closing out.

He has never shown for any extended period of time to be anything other than a bad 3pt shooter, taking bad shots and being a bad shooter doesnt give you any kind of rep, other than defences ignoring you and crowding the rest of the court.

[KP730]

Read on Twitter

[YogurtProducer]

He's also taking more bad shots from 3 intentionally, and it seems to be part of the development process. I don't think he takes those shots all season when this team is actually trying to win. They had him playing PG where he's clearly not comfortable. We can see where he's very efficient and how we can use him there effectively. There's a lot happening here where we are intentionally putting him in places where he's not comfortable

It's possible. He takes and bricks a lot of open 3s as well. He's been particularly useless at catch-and-shoot 3pt shooting this year at just over 29%, and that's not really coming a ton from bad looks. And he's shooting 29.3% on 3s where the closest defender is more than 6 feet away. So shot selection plays into this only so much.

yikes, didn't realize the C+S was so bad.

Congrats to Scottie though on the award! First one of the career?

[Tha Cynic]

Damn, all I see is negative posts in here and he won player of the week. Goes to show what we are as fans lol

[Scase]

I think everyone can be happy for him and still critical of other things. I love Scottie, probably one of the biggest believers of him, but he still sucks at 3 point shooting lol. I've been saying all year he needs to work in the mid range, and he's finally doing that and having some good success, I'm happy with this.

[Vampirate]

I think everyone can be happy for him and still critical of other things. I love Scottie, probably one of the biggest believers of him, but he still sucks at 3 point shooting lol. I've been saying all year he needs to work in the mid range, and he's finally doing that and having some good success, I'm happy with this.

The next step next season is the 3 though, he needs to become a close to 40% 3 point catch and shoot shooter on decent volume.

If he can do it once, he can do it again.

Him being just good at the midrange isn't enough imo. But yes, nice to see him nail it down it looks like.