Official Play-in Thread - Our Play-in Destiny is in our Hands

[S.W.A.N]

Current Record: 18-39
Home games: 13-18 (41.9% win rate)
Away games: 5-21 (19.2% win rate)

Games remaining: 25
Home games: 10
Away games: 15

To make the play-in tournament we will have to win more than 30 games. To win more than 30 games, we will have to win more than 50% of our remaining games.

If the past 3 seasons are any indication, we will have to win closer to 35 games to end up with the 10th worst record in the Eastern Conference:

2023-24
Atlanta Hawks 36-46
Golden State 46-36

2022-2023
Oklahoma City 40-42
Chicago Bulls 40-42

2021-22
Charlotte Hornets 43-39
San Antonio 34-48

To finish the season with more than 30 wins, we will probably have to win all of our home games against winnable teams (8) and end the season with a home record of at least 8 wins and 2 losses (80% win rate) - an outcome that is 2x greater than our win rate at home so far this season.

In addition, we will probably have to win least half of our road games against winnable teams (5) and end the season with an away record of at least 5 wins and 10 losses - an outcome that is 2x greater than our current win rate on the road this season.

To end the season with at least 35 wins, we will have to go 17-8 down the stretch and win 68% of our remaining games - an outcome that is just more than double our current win rate of 32%

How do you propose we are going to 2x out-perform our home game win rate, our away game win rate, and our win rate for the entire season to be able to make the play-in tournament during these next 25 games?

32 wins will get playoffs this year.

It likely will come down to the wire.

Bulls will win between 30-33 games
Raps will win between 29-32 games

We have 2 games left against Bulls. those 2 games probably decide playoffs

[dballislife]

and i think the bulls lose their pick if it doesn't land top 10 or something, so the bulls are going downhill, already sitting vuc and white was coming off bench last game so

[dohboy_24]

32 wins will get playoffs this year.

It likely will come down to the wire.

Bulls will win between 30-33 games
Raps will win between 29-32 games

We have 2 games left against Bulls. those 2 games probably decide playoffs

Current record: 18-40 (31% win rate)

Games remaining: 24
Home games: 9
Away games: 15

To get to 32 wins, we will need to finish the season with a record of 14 wins and 10 losses (58% win rate).

How do you propose the Raptors are going to be able to perform at a rate of winning that is almost 2x the level we've been able to achieve so far this season?

[YogurtProducer]

Sure, out of 8 or 9 games together without Ingram, they can only win 1 out of them each? The only reason our record is better was due to the 5 games winning streak just before the trade deadline, where it was Boucher performing very well, who isn't even our core.

And how does our ORtg and DRtg doing? Bottom 5? Having all of them healthy would raise it to average?
Let's be realistic, even all of them are healthy, are ORtg and DRtg aren't going to be better than in the middle of the league. Adding Ingram may just be somewhat in the middle, we are hardly a top 6 team next year even without injury.

8 or 9 games without Ingram? Ingram has "officially" been with us for 6 games. Of those 6 games Poeltl has played 0. RJ has played 3.

Like what the **** are you even talking about anymore? I honest to god don't even know what you are arguing other than just ranting and just being fundamentally wrong about every piece of evidence you are bringing forward.

Here is the fact of the matter:

We have seen our current core play together for a whomping 0 minutes.
Even before the Ingram trade, we saw the IQ/Barnes/Poeltl/Barrett "core" play like 5 full games.
In addition to those 4 ^, we had significant injuries to our bench which made the issue worse than usual.
None of your posts are considering that we also are adding a top prospect from this draft.

Long story short - you have no clue how our team will look. We are 18-39, and essentially we are adding a (hopefully) healthy Quickley and Ingram, and a top 5-10 pick to our roster. How you possibly are capping that as "middle of the league" is mind boggling considering the only moderately healthy stretch this team had was quite successful.

Contender? No. But middle of the pack celling? Also no.

This is what I said, Ingram is not our savior.
How much ORtg and DRtg can he improve our team from bottom 5. Even I assume everyone is everyone without Ingram, we are bottom 10 in both, adding him would put us more than half in the league? More like middle of the pack ceiling to me without account for injuries.

Again, that is my opinion, you can disagree.
It just happened last season (Siakam-Anunoby-Barnes playoff team?), then this season (Barrett-Quickley-Barnes playoff team?), we didn't really go anywhere, just asset management these years, including next year.

Holy cow man; this is one of the most disingenuous posts I have ever read.

We are NOT just adding Ingram and no one expects him to be our saviour; but you are flat out ignoring that there is more than Ingram going on.

We are adding Ingram, Quickley (who has literally barely played), and a top 2025 pick to this team. That is also before any potential other off-season moves. Does Ingram alone improve this team? No. Does those 3 additions (plus you hopefully don't lose RJ/Poeltl/Barnes for 20% of the season each) improve it? You hope so, yes. (and, we are ignoring any possible improvements from what is a VERY YOUNG core).

You can have your opinion, but at least be accurate on your assessments. Right now you are just ignoring half the facts and screaming about a conclusion you are trying so hard to force.

[YogurtProducer]

32 wins will get playoffs this year.

It likely will come down to the wire.

Bulls will win between 30-33 games
Raps will win between 29-32 games

We have 2 games left against Bulls. those 2 games probably decide playoffs

Current record: 18-40 (31% win rate)

Games remaining: 24
Home games: 9
Away games: 15

To get to 32 wins, we will need to finish the season with a record of 14 wins and 10 losses (58% win rate).

How do you propose the Raptors are going to be able to perform at a rate of winning that is almost 2x the level we've been able to achieve so far this season?

Well, we do play like half those games against WAS CHA CHI BKN etc.

It is not infeasible, but I feel like we are gonna be doing a loooooot of resting.

[dohboy_24]

Well, we do play like half those games against WAS CHA CHI BKN etc.

It is not infeasible, but I feel like we are gonna be doing a loooooot of resting.

Our record so far this season against lottery teams: 7 wins, 2 losses (77% win rate)

Wins this season against lottery teams (4 at home & 3 away games):

Oct 25 vs Philadelphia - W (115-107)
Nov 27 @ New Orleans - W (119-93)
Jan 1 vs Brooklyn - W (130-113)
Jan 27 vs New Orleans - W (113-104)
Jan 29 @ Washington - W (106-82)
Feb 11 @ Philadelphia - W (106-103)
Feb 23 vs Phoenix - W (127-109)

Losses this season against lottery teams (1 at home & 1 away game):

Oct 30 @ Charlotte - L (138-133) - away game
Dec 19 vs Brooklyn - L (101-94) - home game

Games remaining against lottery teams (16):

Mar 7 vs Utah
Mar 8 vs Washington
Mar 10 vs Washington
Mar 12 vs Philadelphia
Mar 14 @ Utah
Mar 16 @ Portland
Mar 17 @ Phoenix
Mar 23 vs San Antonio
Mar 24 @ Washington
Mar 26 @ Brooklyn
Mar 28 vs Charlotte
Mar 30 @ Philadelphia
Apr 3 vs Portland
Apr 6 @ Brooklyn
Apr 9 vs Charlotte
Apr 13 @ San Antonio

If we maintain the same win rate (77%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these lottery teams, we can expect to win 12-13 of these games.

Our record this season against play-in tournament and playoff teams: 11-38 (23% win rate)

Games remaining against play-in tournament and playoff teams (8):

Feb 26 @ Indiana
Feb 28 @ Chicago
Mar 2 @ Orlando
Mar 4 @ Orlando
Mar 20 @ Golden State
Apr 1 @ Chicago
Apr 4 vs Detroit
Apr 11 @ Dallas

If we maintain the same win rate (23%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these play-in tournament and playoff caliber teams, we can expect to win 1-2 of these games.

Should we continue to perform at the same win rates we have so far this season, we can expect to end up with somewhere between 31 and 33 wins.

Anything less than 31 wins = we are winning games at a rate less than what we have been so far and are likely "tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

Anything more than 33 wins = we are winning games at a rate greater than what we have been so far and are likely "not tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

[NotMyKawhi]

Well, we do play like half those games against WAS CHA CHI BKN etc.

It is not infeasible, but I feel like we are gonna be doing a loooooot of resting.

Our record so far this season against lottery teams: 7 wins, 2 losses (77% win rate)

Wins this season against lottery teams (4 at home & 3 away games):

Oct 25 vs Philadelphia - W (115-107)
Nov 27 @ New Orleans - W (119-93)
Jan 1 vs Brooklyn - W (130-113)
Jan 27 vs New Orleans - W (113-104)
Jan 29 @ Washington - W (106-82)
Feb 11 @ Philadelphia - W (106-103)
Feb 23 vs Phoenix - W (127-109)

Losses this season against lottery teams (1 at home & 1 away game):

Oct 30 @ Charlotte - L (138-133) - away game
Dec 19 vs Brooklyn - L (101-94) - home game

Games remaining against lottery teams (16):

Mar 7 vs Utah
Mar 8 vs Washington
Mar 10 vs Washington
Mar 12 vs Philadelphia
Mar 14 @ Utah
Mar 16 @ Portland
Mar 17 @ Phoenix
Mar 23 vs San Antonio
Mar 24 @ Washington
Mar 26 @ Brooklyn
Mar 28 vs Charlotte
Mar 30 @ Philadelphia
Apr 3 vs Portland
Apr 6 @ Brooklyn
Apr 9 vs Charlotte
Apr 13 @ San Antonio

If we maintain the same win rate (77%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these lottery teams, we can expect to win 12-13 of these games.

Our record this season against play-in tournament and playoff teams: 11-38 (23% win rate)

Games remaining against play-in tournament and playoff teams (8):

Feb 26 @ Indiana
Feb 28 @ Chicago
Mar 2 @ Orlando
Mar 4 @ Orlando
Mar 20 @ Golden State
Apr 1 @ Chicago
Apr 4 vs Detroit
Apr 11 @ Dallas

If we maintain the same win rate (23%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these play-in tournament and playoff caliber teams, we can expect to win 1-2 of these games.

Should we continue to perform at the same win rates we have so far this season, we can expect to end up with somewhere between 31 and 33 wins.

Anything less than 31 wins = we are winning games at a rate less than what we have been so far and are likely "tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

Anything more than 33 wins = we are winning games at a rate greater than what we have been so far and are likely "not tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

So Bulls can't win more than 8 games. They have 7 lottery team games. 2 against us, one against the Blazers. 2 against the sixers.

8th lottery odds, play in> 6th lottery odds no play in

[Scase]

Honestly, I say go for the play in and go for the wins. It's what so many people have wanted for a while, and this FO shows no real intent to unashamedly tank, lets give it a shot and see what happens. Trade the pick, see what it will net us, and double down on the re-tool.

[YogurtProducer]

Well, we do play like half those games against WAS CHA CHI BKN etc.

It is not infeasible, but I feel like we are gonna be doing a loooooot of resting.

Our record so far this season against lottery teams: 7 wins, 2 losses (77% win rate)

Wins this season against lottery teams (4 at home & 3 away games):

Oct 25 vs Philadelphia - W (115-107)
Nov 27 @ New Orleans - W (119-93)
Jan 1 vs Brooklyn - W (130-113)
Jan 27 vs New Orleans - W (113-104)
Jan 29 @ Washington - W (106-82)
Feb 11 @ Philadelphia - W (106-103)
Feb 23 vs Phoenix - W (127-109)

Losses this season against lottery teams (1 at home & 1 away game):

Oct 30 @ Charlotte - L (138-133) - away game
Dec 19 vs Brooklyn - L (101-94) - home game

Games remaining against lottery teams (16):

Mar 7 vs Utah
Mar 8 vs Washington
Mar 10 vs Washington
Mar 12 vs Philadelphia
Mar 14 @ Utah
Mar 16 @ Portland
Mar 17 @ Phoenix
Mar 23 vs San Antonio
Mar 24 @ Washington
Mar 26 @ Brooklyn
Mar 28 vs Charlotte
Mar 30 @ Philadelphia
Apr 3 vs Portland
Apr 6 @ Brooklyn
Apr 9 vs Charlotte
Apr 13 @ San Antonio

If we maintain the same win rate (77%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these lottery teams, we can expect to win 12-13 of these games.

Our record this season against play-in tournament and playoff teams: 11-38 (23% win rate)

Games remaining against play-in tournament and playoff teams (8):

Feb 26 @ Indiana
Feb 28 @ Chicago
Mar 2 @ Orlando
Mar 4 @ Orlando
Mar 20 @ Golden State
Apr 1 @ Chicago
Apr 4 vs Detroit
Apr 11 @ Dallas

If we maintain the same win rate (23%) we've achieved so far this season playing against these play-in tournament and playoff caliber teams, we can expect to win 1-2 of these games.

Should we continue to perform at the same win rates we have so far this season, we can expect to end up with somewhere between 31 and 33 wins.

Anything less than 31 wins = we are winning games at a rate less than what we have been so far and are likely "tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

Anything more than 33 wins = we are winning games at a rate greater than what we have been so far and are likely "not tanking" to achieve such an outcome.

Yeah, that 7-2 record against lottery teams also assumes we play a full squad. I fully expect we will see some shameful ****.

But goddamn, what a weird **** schedule.

[YogurtProducer]

Honestly, I say go for the play in and go for the wins. It's what so many people have wanted for a while, and this FO shows no real intent to unashamedly tank, lets give it a shot and see what happens. Trade the pick, see what it will net us, and double down on the re-tool.

And by "so many" you mean like... 4 RealGM posters and twitter casuals?

Did you miss our tank in 2021? Or last year? What makes you think we won't shamefully tank?

[S.W.A.N]

32 wins will get playoffs this year.

It likely will come down to the wire.

Bulls will win between 30-33 games
Raps will win between 29-32 games

We have 2 games left against Bulls. those 2 games probably decide playoffs

Current record: 18-40 (31% win rate)

Games remaining: 24
Home games: 9
Away games: 15

To get to 32 wins, we will need to finish the season with a record of 14 wins and 10 losses (58% win rate).

How do you propose the Raptors are going to be able to perform at a rate of winning that is almost 2x the level we've been able to achieve so far this season?

yes. it isn't hard to see when you look at the teams we will be playing and the health of our team.

The difficult part of our season is over.
We are almost 100% healthy aside from Ingram

[S.W.A.N]

and i think the bulls lose their pick if it doesn't land top 10 or something, so the bulls are going downhill, already sitting vuc and white was coming off bench last game so

pretty sure they got their pick back in the Lavine trade.


Hard to tell what bulls will do at the end.
ownership is cheap they might look at the potential playoff money and not fully commit

[S.W.A.N]

Honestly, I say go for the play in and go for the wins. It's what so many people have wanted for a while, and this FO shows no real intent to unashamedly tank, lets give it a shot and see what happens. Trade the pick, see what it will net us, and double down on the re-tool.

Or just ignore wins and losses. keep playing the young guys lots of minutes and work on internal development.

then nail the draft and add a solid piece that compliments our core. enjoy the process. there going to be some fun games to watch in the next 25

[Indeed]

8 or 9 games without Ingram? Ingram has "officially" been with us for 6 games. Of those 6 games Poeltl has played 0. RJ has played 3.

Like what the **** are you even talking about anymore? I honest to god don't even know what you are arguing other than just ranting and just being fundamentally wrong about every piece of evidence you are bringing forward.

Here is the fact of the matter:

We have seen our current core play together for a whomping 0 minutes.
Even before the Ingram trade, we saw the IQ/Barnes/Poeltl/Barrett "core" play like 5 full games.
In addition to those 4 ^, we had significant injuries to our bench which made the issue worse than usual.
None of your posts are considering that we also are adding a top prospect from this draft.

Long story short - you have no clue how our team will look. We are 18-39, and essentially we are adding a (hopefully) healthy Quickley and Ingram, and a top 5-10 pick to our roster. How you possibly are capping that as "middle of the league" is mind boggling considering the only moderately healthy stretch this team had was quite successful.

Contender? No. But middle of the pack celling? Also no.

This is what I said, Ingram is not our savior.
How much ORtg and DRtg can he improve our team from bottom 5. Even I assume everyone is everyone without Ingram, we are bottom 10 in both, adding him would put us more than half in the league? More like middle of the pack ceiling to me without account for injuries.

Again, that is my opinion, you can disagree.
It just happened last season (Siakam-Anunoby-Barnes playoff team?), then this season (Barrett-Quickley-Barnes playoff team?), we didn't really go anywhere, just asset management these years, including next year.

Holy cow man; this is one of the most disingenuous posts I have ever read.

We are NOT just adding Ingram and no one expects him to be our saviour; but you are flat out ignoring that there is more than Ingram going on.

We are adding Ingram, Quickley (who has literally barely played), and a top 2025 pick to this team. That is also before any potential other off-season moves. Does Ingram alone improve this team? No. Does those 3 additions (plus you hopefully don't lose RJ/Poeltl/Barnes for 20% of the season each) improve it? You hope so, yes. (and, we are ignoring any possible improvements from what is a VERY YOUNG core).

You can have your opinion, but at least be accurate on your assessments. Right now you are just ignoring half the facts and screaming about a conclusion you are trying so hard to force.

What are you expecting Barnes to improve? Like in what aspect? Shooting the 3s better in terms of trend?
What expectation you have with the 2025 pick? Starter level right off the rookie year?
What are you expecting without Davion Mitchell and Boucher, where they also win games for us in place of Quickley.

Every year people think next year would be better, that is what I put. Siakam + Anunoby + Barnes (with no bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes (with bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes + Ingram (over the tax). Again, asset management to me, doesn't improve much.

[dohboy_24]

So Bulls can't win more than 8 games. They have 7 lottery team games. 2 against us, one against the Blazers. 2 against the sixers.

8th lottery odds, play in> 6th lottery odds no play in

The Bulls can win more than 8 games and still end up with better draft odds than the Raptors.

Chicago Bulls
23-35 (8th worst)

Games Remaining: 24
Winnable Games (12):

Feb 28 vs Toronto
Mar 8 @ Miami
Mar 13 vs Brooklyn
Mar 17 @ Utah
Mar 19 @ Phoenix
Mar 20 @ Sacramento
Apr 1 vs Toronto
Apr 4 vs Portland
Apr 6 @ Charlotte
Apr 9 vs Miami
Apr 11 vs Washington
Apr 13 @ Philadelphia

Chicago wins 100% of its winnable games: 35-47
Chicago wins 75% of its winnable games: 31-51
Chicago wins 50% of its winnable games: 29-53
Chicago wins 25% of its winnable games: 26-56

Toronto Raptors
18-40 (5th worst)

Games Remaining: 24
Winnable Games (18):

Feb 28 @ Chicago
Mar 7 vs Utah
Mar 8 vs Washington
Mar 10 vs Washington
Mar 12 vs Philadelphia
Mar 14 @ Utah
Mar 16 @ Portland
Mar 17 @ Phoenix
Mar 23 vs San Antonio
Mar 24 @ Washington
Mar 26 @ Brooklyn
Mar 28 vs Charlotte
Mar 30 @ Philadelphia
Apr 1 @ Chicago
Apr 3 vs Portland
Apr 6 @ Brooklyn
Apr 9 vs Charlotte
Apr 13 @ San Antonio

Toronto wins 100% of its winnable games: 36-46
Toronto wins 75% of its winnable games: 31-51
Toronto wins 50% of its winnable games: 27-55
Toronto wins 25% of its winnable games: 23-59

If Toronto wins 100% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 100% of its winnable games, the Raptors will end the season with a 36-46 record and the Bulls will end the season with a 35-47 record.

Since we play 2 games against each other this outcome is not possible, so:

If Toronto goes 2-0 against the Bulls, Chicago would finish the season with a 33-49 record and Toronto would have a 36-46 record. Chicago would have the better draft odds.

If the series is tied 1-1, Toronto would finish with a 35-47 record and Chicago would finish with a 34-48 record. Chicago would have the better draft odds.

If Chicago goes 2-0 against the Raptors, Toronto would finish the season with a 34-48 record and Chicago would have a 35-47 record. Toronto would have the better draft odds.

If Toronto wins 75% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 75% of its winnable games, both teams end the season with the same 31-51 record. A tiebreaker would decide which team has the better draft odds.

If Toronto wins 75% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 50% of its winnable games, the Raptors will end the season with a 31-51 record and the Bulls will end the season with a 29-53 record. Chicago would have the better draft odds.

If Toronto wins 50% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 50% of its winnable games, the Raptors will end the season with a 27-55 record and the Bulls will end the season with a 29-53 record. Toronto would have the better draft odds.

If Toronto wins 50% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 25% of its winnable games, the Raptors will end the season with a 27-55 record and the Bulls will end the season with a 26-56 record. Toronto would have the better draft odds.

If Toronto wins 25% of its winnable games and Chicago wins 25% of its winnable games, the Raptors will end the season with a 23-59 record and the Bulls will end the season with a 26-56 record. Toronto would have the better draft odds.

Of these 8 scenarios, the Raptors have the better draft odds 4 times, the Bulls have the better draft odds 3 times, and the last scenario would be determined by a tiebreaker. Let's call that 4.5 times out of 8.

56% of the time, the odds favor the Raptors
44% of the time, the odds favor the Bulls

[YogurtProducer]

This is what I said, Ingram is not our savior.
How much ORtg and DRtg can he improve our team from bottom 5. Even I assume everyone is everyone without Ingram, we are bottom 10 in both, adding him would put us more than half in the league? More like middle of the pack ceiling to me without account for injuries.

Again, that is my opinion, you can disagree.
It just happened last season (Siakam-Anunoby-Barnes playoff team?), then this season (Barrett-Quickley-Barnes playoff team?), we didn't really go anywhere, just asset management these years, including next year.

Holy cow man; this is one of the most disingenuous posts I have ever read.

We are NOT just adding Ingram and no one expects him to be our saviour; but you are flat out ignoring that there is more than Ingram going on.

We are adding Ingram, Quickley (who has literally barely played), and a top 2025 pick to this team. That is also before any potential other off-season moves. Does Ingram alone improve this team? No. Does those 3 additions (plus you hopefully don't lose RJ/Poeltl/Barnes for 20% of the season each) improve it? You hope so, yes. (and, we are ignoring any possible improvements from what is a VERY YOUNG core).

You can have your opinion, but at least be accurate on your assessments. Right now you are just ignoring half the facts and screaming about a conclusion you are trying so hard to force.

What are you expecting Barnes to improve? Like in what aspect? Shooting the 3s better in terms of trend?
What expectation you have with the 2025 pick? Starter level right off the rookie year?
What are you expecting without Davion Mitchell and Boucher, where they also win games for us in place of Quickley.

Every year people think next year would be better, that is what I put. Siakam + Anunoby + Barnes (with no bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes (with bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes + Ingram (over the tax). Again, asset management to me, doesn't improve much.

Barnes? He can definitely improve his shot selection to improve his efficiency.

2025 pick? I don’t know, they could be a positive rotation player from day 1. Lots of top 5 picks are.

I don’t know what you’re even saying about Mitchell and Boucher.

And what? You keep bringing up Quickley and ignoring that he didn’t even **** play this year for the first 50 games we’re adding him next year as much as we’re adding Ingram.

I don’t know man. If you can’t see how guys actually playing is gonna help then this is a pointless exercise. You keep moving goalposts ever post you make lol

[Duffman100]

The big question is health.

Will Quickley be healthy
Can Ingram play 60+ games
Can Barnes avoid his 'freakish' injuries

If we can be healthy, we're pushing for that 5/6 seed.

[dballislife]

and once we make play in we only have to beat 2 middling teams like us to be 15th, so who we picking with the 15th pick lol

[Indeed]

Holy cow man; this is one of the most disingenuous posts I have ever read.

We are NOT just adding Ingram and no one expects him to be our saviour; but you are flat out ignoring that there is more than Ingram going on.

We are adding Ingram, Quickley (who has literally barely played), and a top 2025 pick to this team. That is also before any potential other off-season moves. Does Ingram alone improve this team? No. Does those 3 additions (plus you hopefully don't lose RJ/Poeltl/Barnes for 20% of the season each) improve it? You hope so, yes. (and, we are ignoring any possible improvements from what is a VERY YOUNG core).

You can have your opinion, but at least be accurate on your assessments. Right now you are just ignoring half the facts and screaming about a conclusion you are trying so hard to force.

What are you expecting Barnes to improve? Like in what aspect? Shooting the 3s better in terms of trend?
What expectation you have with the 2025 pick? Starter level right off the rookie year?
What are you expecting without Davion Mitchell and Boucher, where they also win games for us in place of Quickley.

Every year people think next year would be better, that is what I put. Siakam + Anunoby + Barnes (with no bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes (with bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes + Ingram (over the tax). Again, asset management to me, doesn't improve much.

Barnes? He can definitely improve his shot selection to improve his efficiency.

2025 pick? I don’t know, they could be a positive rotation player from day 1. Lots of top 5 picks are.

I don’t know what you’re even saying about Mitchell and Boucher.

And what? You keep bringing up Quickley and ignoring that he didn’t even **** play this year for the first 50 games we’re adding him next year as much as we’re adding Ingram.

I don’t know man. If you can’t see how guys actually playing is gonna help then this is a pointless exercise. You keep moving goalposts ever post you make lol

I didn't move goalposts, I have been saying the same thing consistently.
If the team is that good, losing one starter (Quickley) wouldn't be a bottom feeder (win 1 out of 6 / 8 games, and mainly against short handed teams). Adding Ingram and 2025 1st in place of Davion Mitchell and Boucher wouldn't get us to the top 6.

All I am saying is, don't put too much expectation. And just to remind everyone that they claim the team is better without Siakam, then people came out and said the trade of Siakam is undervalue, blah blah blah. People ask to trade Siakam for peanuts so Barnes can take over, didn't happen. People say BBQ + Poeltl and depth would be a playoff team, didn't happen. Every year the same excuse, injury.

[YogurtProducer]

What are you expecting Barnes to improve? Like in what aspect? Shooting the 3s better in terms of trend?
What expectation you have with the 2025 pick? Starter level right off the rookie year?
What are you expecting without Davion Mitchell and Boucher, where they also win games for us in place of Quickley.

Every year people think next year would be better, that is what I put. Siakam + Anunoby + Barnes (with no bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes (with bench), then Barrett + Quickley + Barnes + Ingram (over the tax). Again, asset management to me, doesn't improve much.

Barnes? He can definitely improve his shot selection to improve his efficiency.

2025 pick? I don’t know, they could be a positive rotation player from day 1. Lots of top 5 picks are.

I don’t know what you’re even saying about Mitchell and Boucher.

And what? You keep bringing up Quickley and ignoring that he didn’t even **** play this year for the first 50 games we’re adding him next year as much as we’re adding Ingram.

I don’t know man. If you can’t see how guys actually playing is gonna help then this is a pointless exercise. You keep moving goalposts ever post you make lol

I didn't move goalposts, I have been saying the same thing consistently.
If the team is that good, losing one starter (Quickley) wouldn't be a bottom feeder (win 1 out of 6 / 8 games, and mainly against short handed teams). Adding Ingram and 2025 1st in place of Davion Mitchell and Boucher wouldn't get us to the top 6.

All I am saying is, don't put too much expectation. And just to remind everyone that they claim the team is better without Siakam, then people came out and said the trade of Siakam is undervalue, blah blah blah. People ask to trade Siakam for peanuts so Barnes can take over, didn't happen. P

Okay, but you are ignoring that we didn't lose just one starter

Quickley missed almost the whole year. Barnes/Poellt/RJ have all missed 20% of the season. Brown/Olynyk when they were almost never played. It is not as simple as "Ingram and 2025 1st" because it a lot more than just that. It is Ingram, 20225 1st, IQ playing more than 15 games, improvement from Shead/Battle/Walter/Dick/Mogbo who are all rooks/2nd year guys, improvemnet from RJ/Barnes/IQ who are all 25 or under, etc.

People say BBQ + Poeltl and depth would be a playoff team, didn't happen. Every year the same excuse, injury.

So BBQ + Poeltl have only been on the team together for 12 months my guy - so how is "every year the same excuse"?