Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[Tough Tony D]

Draft him

[Twoism]

Barnes has proven the most as a clutch time performer. It was just weird how you doubted Barnes killer instinct when he has proven otherwise.

Agree, and proven. To the doubters, it's the fact.

deal with Kendall

[nelabai]

My draft list:
1.Davis
2.Barnes
3.J. Lamb
4. MGK
5.D.Lamb

[wegetitin08]

I know this might come out of nowhere but our board needs to stop sleeping on terrence ross that guy can really ball great shooter, pretty decent handles, has some good athleticism, good defender, clutch player and plays hard. We always bring up Lamb, Beal, and Rivers but this guy should be in the acquisition if we talking 2 guards. Well here is some highlights of him. Btw kinda reminds me of a young t-mac before he put it all together.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CYeHHeI4fg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NZ3ii5fmnU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_HT9VEEcI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqpwXliYgk[/youtube]

Wow okay I updated my board, Lamb plays about 6 more mins and avg about 2 more pts so Ross (imo a big sleeper) gets the green light too.

Board:
1)J.Lamb
2)H.Barnes
3)T.Ross
4)B.Beal
5)P.Jones III

[Mediocrity]

Can anyone tell me about Wroten? I have heard nothing about him, so I was wondering what makes him appealing. Where is he projected to go now? Will he be a riser? There are so many questions in this draft, I cannot wait until draft day; there are going to be a million trades!

[ty123]

I want someone who can get into the paint at will and actually finish.

[Kevin Willis]

Ross has a better toolset than Lamb and a better motor. He will probably be a better NBA player but I expect he will rise as the year goes on similar to Leonard.

[JN]

Wow okay I updated my board, Lamb plays about 6 more mins and avg about 2 more pts so Ross (imo a big sleeper) gets the green light too.

Board:
1)J.Lamb
2)H.Barnes
3)T.Ross
4)B.Beal
5)P.Jones III

A few things to keep in mind when you are comparing points per minute:
1) PACE
2) QUALITY OF OPPOSITION


Out of 74 BCS teams,

Washington = 5th Highest Tempo
UConn = 60th Highest Tempo

UConn = 8th Best Defensive Opposition
Washington = 59th Best Defensive Opposition

Note - these were quickly calculated by going down KenPom, so may be off a few.

And despite the tempo and relative lack of quality opposition, Ross is still only shooting 45%, Not being able to shoot higher then 45% at the NCAA level has always been a red flag for me. If you can't create decent looks for yourself in an up tempo system, I am very concerned about being able to create quality looks at the next level -- and your ability to be efficient.

Its not an end of story red flag, but definetely a concern. You need to consider context of the stat (team situation). The problem with highlight reels is it doesn't show the 55% of missed shots. Of course you still need to do the eye assessment of his entire game.

[Dr Positivity]

I'm a big T Ross fan, handles are incredibly important to be a high end perimeter player and he has them. It's a testament to the depth of all-star talent in this draft that he and Arnett Moultrie haven't even been in the conversation for top 10. I think in last year those guys would've been my 2nd or 3rd favorite prospects in the draft

[Dr Positivity]

Can anyone tell me about Wroten? I have heard nothing about him, so I was wondering what makes him appealing. Where is he projected to go now? Will he be a riser? There are so many questions in this draft, I cannot wait until draft day; there are going to be a million trades!

He's this year's Tyreke Evans. Has the size, athleticism and skill level of a star but has good stats bad team moron ball pounder written all over him. Will probably drop 17 and 6 his rookie season and be declared the steal of the draft, who knows what happens from there

Still, a team picking 10th or 11th might be on board with getting a 20 and 6 Evans/Stuckey talent and the chance to whip him into shape. Last year everyone knew Marshon Brooks had as much 20ppg ability as anyone in the draft, but was declared a Ricky Davis type chucker/loser - But Brooks so far has apparantely had a great attitude, so you just don't know, talent is talent.

I could see New Orleans going SF/PF/C their first pick, and PG their 2nd. And Phoenix looking for a guy to fill Nash's shoes. Wroten comes into workouts, looks good, all of a sudden he goes top 10

[JN]

45% FG (Terrence Ross current mark)

Here are ALL the lottery players that shot 45% or less in their soph year.

2010

Wesley Johnson
Ekpe Udoh
Aminu
Paul George

2009
Terrence Williams

2008
Joe Alexander
D.J Agustin
B. Rush

2007
Jeff Green

2006
Randy Foye
J.J Redick

Paul George obviously is a great pick, but most others were poor picks at their draft position. I will also add that 2005 counters the above with Chris Pau and Deron Williams

Anyway merely a point for concern, but not the final point for choosing,

[JN]

I'm a big T Ross fan, handles are incredibly important to be a high end perimeter player and he has them. It's a testament to the depth of all-star talent in this draft that he and Arnett Moultrie haven't even been in the conversation for top 10. I think in last year those guys would've been my 2nd or 3rd favorite prospects in the draft

So you would have had Moultrie rated this highly if he had entered the draft last year?

[JN]

Can anyone tell me about Wroten? I have heard nothing about him, so I was wondering what makes him appealing. Where is he projected to go now? Will he be a riser? There are so many questions in this draft, I cannot wait until draft day; there are going to be a million trades!

He's this year's Tyreke Evans. Has the size, athleticism and skill level of a star but has good stats bad team moron ball pounder written all over him. Will probably drop 17 and 6 his rookie season and be declared the steal of the draft, who knows what happens from there

Still, a team picking 10th or 11th might be on board with getting a 20 and 6 Evans/Stuckey talent and the chance to whip him into shape. Last year everyone knew Marshon Brooks had as much 20ppg ability as anyone in the draft, but was declared a Ricky Davis type chucker/loser - But Brooks so far has apparantely had a great attitude, so you just don't know, talent is talent.

I could see New Orleans going SF/PF/C their first pick, and PG their 2nd. And Phoenix looking for a guy to fill Nash's shoes. Wroten comes into workouts, looks good, all of a sudden he goes top 10

A good take on Wroten.

[Onlykiwirapsfan]

I havent watched enough college ball this season to know if this concern is at all justified, but I have to admit i'm a little turned off by Barnes "NBA ready, doesnt have the highest ceiling but has a high floor, good all around player etc' when you look at recent top 5 picks who were billed similarly in Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Derick Williams. Is this at all justified?

In saying that if we get a Luol Deng level player for the ~4th pick, I would be pretty happy

[Dr Positivity]

I havent watched enough college ball this season to know if this concern is at all justified, but I have to admit i'm a little turned off by Barnes "NBA ready, doesnt have the highest ceiling but has a high floor, good all around player etc' when you look at recent top 5 picks who were billed similarly in Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Derick Williams. Is this at all justified?

In saying that if we get a Luol Deng level player for the ~4th pick, I would be pretty happy

I agree with the Wes Johnson of this draft comparison and "safe" players sometimes being the biggest busts. I remember thinking W Johnson was a lock to be Tay Prince due to his length and 3pt shooting. But it's a steep drop from Prince level if you're not an elite elite shooter, if your off the ball IQ on either end has problems, if you have aggressiveness/confidence issues to always make your open shots. Now instead of Prince you're Dorrell Wright. Likewise Deng turns into Marvin Williams if you take a few things off the table.

Is there a lot that separates Barnes from Omri Casspi as a prospect? Size, skill level, athleticism, etc. looks pretty similar. I remember thinking Casspi was going to be a career 16ppg bomber on his 3pt shooting alone and even thought the trade to Cleveland would lead to those numbers. Just isn't as incredible a shooter as it seemed he'd be after his rookie season.

And even if Barnes is a 17ppg guy, so what? Looks like we're becoming the Indy Pacers in that scenario. We need a gamebreaking talent now while we can get it. With Val and Barnes and a healthy Bargnani next year we could be picking 10th overall

[JN]

Some outstanding games this week:

Wed - Kansas vs Baylor
Wed - Duke vs UNC
SAT - UConn vs Syracuse
SAT - Missouri vs Baylor

[Dr Positivity]

I'm a big T Ross fan, handles are incredibly important to be a high end perimeter player and he has them. It's a testament to the depth of all-star talent in this draft that he and Arnett Moultrie haven't even been in the conversation for top 10. I think in last year those guys would've been my 2nd or 3rd favorite prospects in the draft

So you would have had Moultrie rated this highly if he had entered the draft last year?

No I mean if he was having this season, last year

[JN]

I'm a big T Ross fan, handles are incredibly important to be a high end perimeter player and he has them. It's a testament to the depth of all-star talent in this draft that he and Arnett Moultrie haven't even been in the conversation for top 10. I think in last year those guys would've been my 2nd or 3rd favorite prospects in the draft

So you would have had Moultrie rated this highly if he had entered the draft last year?

No I mean if he was having this season, last year

Ok - that makes sense.

[Victorious1]

I think Will Barton could be a steal SG late in the 1st round. He's averaging almost 19PPG on good averages. A great rebounder, and is attempting 6FTA per game.

Check out his video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVzQRws ... ata_player

Profile:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Will-Barton-5737/

[Marlo Stanfield]

How is Washington not a top-25 team with Ross and Wroten?