2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2

[douggood]

now only the guaranteed portion of contracts can be used for salary matching purposes.

so lets say on draft day, raptors want to trade for a player making 3 million. they can choose to guarantee for example 2.5 of baynes contract and trade him and the new team can cut him before the date he becomes fully guaranteed, new team will pay him 2.5 mil but not the full 7.35 mil.

there is reason so many of the new contracts around the league have this unguranteed structure, vs a straight team option. it gives team more flexibility and the player loses nothing.
hood, baynes, boucher, bembery all have similar structures

I was thinking of trade scenarios and you made me aware of this rule change in a previous thread.

I was wondering about this idea of partial guarantee like in your example. Do we know this is possible or is it an all or nothing scenario? Has this happened before?

happened last year with trevor ariza. was first traded to houston for covington and then to detroit

ariza had 12.8 mil non guaranteed salary(only 1.8 was guranteed), but they guaranteed 7.1 mil of it to make a legal trade for covington.

then with houston, he was traded in s&t for cristian wood. who signed a 3 year 41 deal. so then houston increased his guarantee to almost full amount to match the new cristian wood salary.

also part of the big jrue holliday trade to mil, which was combined with the steven adams trade, OKC got a lot of filler salaries to match steven adams with some of the smaller players having similar things done to thier contract to match adams salary.

Read on Twitter

[Psubs]

How would you guys feel about Kemba for Siakam? Obviously picks would be involved in some way, but I’m just curious how Raps fans feel about it, especially if Lowry bounces this summer

We gain absolutely nothing from that trade. Kemba doesn’t fit our timeline or have any history with the team. We don’t need another pg to begin with as well. Literally asking Raptor fans if we’d trade our 27 year old current best player for an injury riddled aging pg who doesn’t bring any value towards the goals of the team

It's not that the Raptors wouldn't necessarily not trade for Kemba, it's that the demands would be around how many assets do we get back for taking on their bad contract (that took the place of their old, injury prone bad contract: Hayward).

We could take Kemba on for free in cap space this summer, but we'd have to get Boston's first rounder to do it, at minimum.

If they want a replacement guard with value like Fred or a Lowry S&T; then we're going to need 2 or 3 first rounders and/or prospects. You don't get to dump your injury riddled over 30 year old max contracts for free. And you certainly don't get younger, better players for them like Siakam. Laughably absurd.

Ya, Horford is still good and needed a 1st pick and Maledon's rights (early 2nd rounder) attached.

Raptors also have too many guards. Maybe Boston should trade Kemba and 1st pick to OKC for Horford.

[Gold Dragon]

now only the guaranteed portion of contracts can be used for salary matching purposes.

so lets say on draft day, raptors want to trade for a player making 3 million. they can choose to guarantee for example 2.5 of baynes contract and trade him and the new team can cut him before the date he becomes fully guaranteed, new team will pay him 2.5 mil but not the full 7.35 mil.

there is reason so many of the new contracts around the league have this unguranteed structure, vs a straight team option. it gives team more flexibility and the player loses nothing.
hood, baynes, boucher, bembery all have similar structures

I was thinking of trade scenarios and you made me aware of this rule change in a previous thread.

I was wondering about this idea of partial guarantee like in your example. Do we know this is possible or is it an all or nothing scenario? Has this happened before?

happened last year with trevor ariza. was first traded to houston for covington and then to detroit

ariza had 12.8 mil non guaranteed salary(only 1.8 was guranteed), but they guaranteed 7.1 mil of it to make a legal trade for covington.

then with houston, he was traded in s&t for cristian wood. who signed a 3 year 41 deal. so then houston increased his guarantee to almost full amount to match the new cristian wood salary.

also part of the big jrue holliday trade to mil, which was combined with the steven adams trade, OKC got a lot of filler salaries to match steven adams with some of the smaller players having similar things done to thier contract to match adams salary.

Read on Twitter

So we still may be able to extract some value out of Baynes and Hood. I was trying to figure out how to take advantage of all these non-guaranteed contracts structured this way instead of just releasing them.

[douggood]

I was thinking of trade scenarios and you made me aware of this rule change in a previous thread.

I was wondering about this idea of partial guarantee like in your example. Do we know this is possible or is it an all or nothing scenario? Has this happened before?

happened last year with trevor ariza. was first traded to houston for covington and then to detroit

ariza had 12.8 mil non guaranteed salary(only 1.8 was guranteed), but they guaranteed 7.1 mil of it to make a legal trade for covington.

then with houston, he was traded in s&t for cristian wood. who signed a 3 year 41 deal. so then houston increased his guarantee to almost full amount to match the new cristian wood salary.

also part of the big jrue holliday trade to mil, which was combined with the steven adams trade, OKC got a lot of filler salaries to match steven adams with some of the smaller players having similar things done to thier contract to match adams salary.

Read on Twitter

So we still may be able to extract some value out of Baynes and Hood. I was trying to figure out how to take advantage of all these non-guaranteed contracts structured this way instead of just releasing them.

only works if want to operate as above cap team (resign Lowry basically or s&t trade him for substantial incoming salary) but then timing of things will be off, as resigning lowry or s&t will be after the deadline to guarantee their contracts. ( i guess the players could choose to extend deadline)

otherwise if operating as under cap team give us more benefits in trade discussions vs using hood/baynes non guranteed structure.

[GoCeltics123]

We gain absolutely nothing from that trade. Kemba doesn’t fit our timeline or have any history with the team. We don’t need another pg to begin with as well. Literally asking Raptor fans if we’d trade our 27 year old current best player for an injury riddled aging pg who doesn’t bring any value towards the goals of the team

It's not that the Raptors wouldn't necessarily not trade for Kemba, it's that the demands would be around how many assets do we get back for taking on their bad contract (that took the place of their old, injury prone bad contract: Hayward).

We could take Kemba on for free in cap space this summer, but we'd have to get Boston's first rounder to do it, at minimum.

If they want a replacement guard with value like Fred or a Lowry S&T; then we're going to need 2 or 3 first rounders and/or prospects. You don't get to dump your injury riddled over 30 year old max contracts for free. And you certainly don't get younger, better players for them like Siakam. Laughably absurd.

Ya, Horford is still good and needed a 1st pick and Maledon's rights (early 2nd rounder) attached.

Raptors also have too many guards. Maybe Boston should trade Kemba and 1st pick to OKC for Horford.

Considering Kemba was better than Horford this year, I severely doubt that.

I more presented this trade because Siakam's contract, while far from the worst, doesn't look great right now...plus he's got 3 more years left on it. If the Raps decide to go full tank, they should consider unloading Siakam now IMO

[Morris_Shatford]

To recycle my comment from the Trade Board RE: Siakam.

If the Raps are going to move him now (and I don't see that being the case this summer unless its something nuts) it likely signals a major change in this teams direction likely to get younger and likely worse in the short term.

I can't see a situation where Siakam gets moved 1 for 1 (with some assets around the fringes) for someone older unless its expiring salary ballast which comes along with the assets.

[sidsid]

It's not that the Raptors wouldn't necessarily not trade for Kemba, it's that the demands would be around how many assets do we get back for taking on their bad contract (that took the place of their old, injury prone bad contract: Hayward).

We could take Kemba on for free in cap space this summer, but we'd have to get Boston's first rounder to do it, at minimum.

If they want a replacement guard with value like Fred or a Lowry S&T; then we're going to need 2 or 3 first rounders and/or prospects. You don't get to dump your injury riddled over 30 year old max contracts for free. And you certainly don't get younger, better players for them like Siakam. Laughably absurd.

Ya, Horford is still good and needed a 1st pick and Maledon's rights (early 2nd rounder) attached.

Raptors also have too many guards. Maybe Boston should trade Kemba and 1st pick to OKC for Horford.

Considering Kemba was better than Horford this year, I severely doubt that.

I more presented this trade because Siakam's contract, while far from the worst, doesn't look great right now...plus he's got 3 more years left on it. If the Raps decide to go full tank, they should consider unloading Siakam now IMO

If the Raptors go full tank they'll be entertaining trades like Siakam for Wiggins and their lottery picks/prospects, not bad contracts attached to no assets like the trade you presented.

Siakam's contract is 4 years, attached to a 27 year old entering his prime, who was a key contributor to a championship and flashed enough all-star potential to get 2nd team all-nba. The Raptor's will be fine with exploring that potential in the meantime.

If you haven't seen it, Kemba's deal is EDIT: 3 years attached to a player exiting his prime, where he'll be paid almost 40 million when he turns 34 and his knees turn 80. His accomplishments are being the weak link the Raptor's attacked relentlessly to extend last year's series to 7 games.

It's true that Kemba has more value than Horford simply because he's younger. The same way the Thunder got tons of draft picks swapping Russ for Paul (even though Paul was better). And that's the dynamic you're looking at for Kemba. You're looking for an ancient player with value left for a short run, or young bad contracts that you give a second chance to (Wiggins), but that may still cost you assets.

[MessiahUjiri]

I think Evan Fournier is an under the radar guy we might be targeting.

We need a bench wing who can score, shoot, pass, and has good size. Fournier is 6’7, and would get us a nightly 15/3/3. You can play him at the 2 and 3 easily, and his shooting would complement Siakam and OG really well.

At 28 years old, he fits Fred and Siakams age curve.

There’s also an established Masai connection, who drafted him when he was a nobody.

If it’s not a big we’re going after, Fournier seems like a pretty good target.

[MessiahUjiri]

Assuming that Kyle leaves, this might be something we could end up with:

- Sign Fournier, Resign Birch, sign a vet min center
- Draft Scottie Barnes (defends 1-5 most nights)
- Bring back Bembry as a swiss army 9th man


Fred / Malachi
Trent / Fournier / Harris
OG / Bembry
Siakam / Barnes / (Boucher)
Birch / Boucher / (Vet C)


Add 2 second rounders to that, and we have a young team that likely competes for 4th spot in the East, and a playoff second round team.

Test the trade market for Boucher and the second rounders, if you’re not sold on him as a center.

With free agent space next year again, that’s an excellent base to consolidate assets and build the next championship contender.

[Dalek]

I think Masai/Bobby are slick enough to see that after Lamelo, RJ Hampton and Jae'sean Tate had really good success that translated well to the NBA, that they will look at the NBL for players. While the global scout was looking at Giddey, I am curious if he got a look at Jock Landale who plays for Melbourne.

He'd be a great back-up C that we could acquire fairly cheaply.

Landale is 6'11 and 250 lbs and is a stretch C with some rim protection and takes the ball to the hoop with force. He played in Europe in Lithuania but at age 25 in the NBL his numbers look great:

16 PPG
8 Rebs
2 Assists
1.5 Blocks
37% from three

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Manolo77

If people are over the Baynes trauma, I think he'd be a nice back-up that wouldn't be too expensive to pick up.

[Asif16]

Would houston be willing to trade Christian Wood? They're in full rebuild mode. Wood playing through rebuilding years doesn't make sense

[Morris_Shatford]

Would houston be willing to trade Christian Wood? They're in full rebuild mode. Wood playing through rebuilding years doesn't make sense

Wood is 25 and has two fairly reasonable years left on his deal at around 14m-ish a season;
Houston appears to be bringing it down to the studs and going full on re-build, even if age wise he may fit with the time line given that he has two years left on his deal they may try and sell high this summer?

What would you be willing to move to get him?

[Morris_Shatford]

Test the trade market for Boucher and the second rounders, if you’re not sold on him as a center.

With free agent space next year again, that’s an excellent base to consolidate assets and build the next championship contender.

Sorry to cherry pick!
The Boucher comment gave me pause for a moment.

The general thought on the trade board is that even one year of Boucher on a 7m contract w/ bird rights is worth a late 1st rounder to some teams.

The question that this raise with me which is something potentially worth discussing;
From a depth and team perspective

What is worth more to us next season;
Boucher on a very cheap contract for 82 games or a late 1st in 2021?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Test the trade market for Boucher and the second rounders, if you’re not sold on him as a center.

With free agent space next year again, that’s an excellent base to consolidate assets and build the next championship contender.

Sorry to cherry pick!
The Boucher comment gave me pause for a moment.

The general thought on the trade board is that even one year of Boucher on a 7m contract w/ bird rights is worth a late 1st rounder to some teams.

The question that this raise with me which is something potentially worth discussing;
From a depth and team perspective

What is worth more to us next season;
Boucher on a very cheap contract for 82 games or a late 1st in 2021?

i'm very happy if he becomes our 6th man/first big off of the bench and that our starting center is much better than him. its obvious this dude has developed very well in our system and that he brings a dimension to our front court that is a game changer.

Khem Birch is solid but he needs to get a consistent jumpshot to hit the occasional 3.

[Psubs]

I think Masai/Bobby are slick enough to see that after Lamelo, RJ Hampton and Jae'sean Tate had really good success that translated well to the NBA, that they will look at the NBL for players. While the global scout was looking at Giddey, I am curious if he got a look at Jock Landale who plays for Melbourne.

He'd be a great back-up C that we could acquire fairly cheaply.

Landale is 6'11 and 250 lbs and is a stretch C with some rim protection and takes the ball to the hoop with force. He played in Europe in Lithuania but at age 25 in the NBL his numbers look great:

16 PPG
8 Rebs
2 Assists
1.5 Blocks
37% from three

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Manolo77

If people are over the Baynes trauma, I think he'd be a nice back-up that wouldn't be too expensive to pick up.

You had me at 6'11

[MessiahUjiri]

Test the trade market for Boucher and the second rounders, if you’re not sold on him as a center.

With free agent space next year again, that’s an excellent base to consolidate assets and build the next championship contender.

Sorry to cherry pick!
The Boucher comment gave me pause for a moment.

The general thought on the trade board is that even one year of Boucher on a 7m contract w/ bird rights is worth a late 1st rounder to some teams.

The question that this raise with me which is something potentially worth discussing;
From a depth and team perspective

What is worth more to us next season;
Boucher on a very cheap contract for 82 games or a late 1st in 2021?

i'm very happy if he becomes our 6th man/first big off of the bench and that our starting center is much better than him. its obvious this dude has developed very well in our system and that he brings a dimension to our front court that is a game changer.

Khem Birch is solid but he needs to get a consistent jumpshot to hit the occasional 3.

It's an interesting thought - someone good would have to slip to be really worth trading away Boucher. Maybe if the Warriors (13-15 slot) might be an interesting match. But it would have to be someone good that can exceed Boucher's impact, even if it takes a year or two.

[hyper316]

Who wanted DeMar back? 5/21 FG performance

[Ell Curry]

I could see Denver not wanting to throw in the towel next year with Murray out AND seeing him as a decent fit as a Jason Kidd on Dallas/Knicks type once Murray is back running the point.

Will Barton might pick up his option what with his injury and he would give us a wing scorer which we can use. Maybe Barton and a long in the future 1st rounder for Lowry? Boucher is also a nice fit there. But yeah:

MLE/Birch/
Siakam/Boucher
OG/#7
Barton/Trent/Harris
VanVleet/Flynn

would give us a proper bench next year and the starting lineup would have a bit more oomph if the 5 can space the floor a bit and Barton is healthy. Not particularly sexy, but if nobody else wants to give up a first to pay Lowry 60/3 and Denver does...

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Who wanted DeMar back? 5/21 FG performance

hey look, we know that Demar. **** playoff performer.

**** off.

[Raptors_128]

Would houston be willing to trade Christian Wood? They're in full rebuild mode. Wood playing through rebuilding years doesn't make sense

Wood is 25 and has two fairly reasonable years left on his deal at around 14m-ish a season;
Houston appears to be bringing it down to the studs and going full on re-build, even if age wise he may fit with the time line given that he has two years left on his deal they may try and sell high this summer?

What would you be willing to move to get him?

I would move any combination of Boucher/Trent Jr. sign-and-trade/2022 or later 1st.