[Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted

[Supermann98]

slightly underwhelmed by the return. I was hoping for another asset but having Dragic is helpful also.
We dont' have any players over 30. We need vets. He'll be good for leadership. He won't fetch much even if he's traded at the deadline though.

You're probably right but what if Steph or Kyrie or someone important like that goes down, a healthy Dragic would be great in comparison.

I'm glad Masai is playing hardball with Dallas though, he holds all the chips. Yes Dragic will be eating up minutes for our young guys to develop but it won't be long until teams will be calling on Dragic and we could use his veteran savvy for camp and the start of the year.

Besides that why buy him out? So instead of paying him $18m we buy him out and for what? If I'm an MLSE executive that just sounds like $18m down the drain so he can play in Dallas for the vet minimum. No sorry Cuban, give us Powell and your 1st next year and then we'll give you Dragic, otherwise we'll trade him to someone else in your conference

[aligator]

I am not suggesting a buyout but if it did occur, Dallas could be paying way more than vet minimum. A Dallas source suggested 2 days back that a buyout might involve Mavs agreeing to pay 5 mil, Dragic eating 3 mil with 8 mil coming back to Raps.

[JPriest]

• First, Dinwiddie has been an All-Star, albeit a borderline one
• Second, did the Raptors not just make a 54m dollar commitment to a non-Allstar in GTJ?
• Third, Is borderline All-Star like Dinwiddie @ 20m per year over three years not a solid trade asset? He doesn't need to be a needle mover
• Fourth, we have 2 players at the guard spots we are trying to develop... If FVV is still developing, than so is Dinwiddie

You have zero insight on managements view of Dinwiddie. You’re just propping him because he was available this year. Our team has literally explained their thought process, and has prive. They are not afraid to go after the player they want vs what main stream media tho is is better (check Barnes vs Suggs). You say we’re being apologists. And I laugh. I’m just listening to what’s being said by the people way more knowledgable and in the know them you and I, whom has EARNED my trust. But clearly not yours. Complain bruh, complain and whine. World is your oyster.

• I never once said I had any insight on management's view of Dinwiddie
• I'm not complaining... I'm merely making an opportunity cost analysis of gaining Achuiwa's rights, and saying he better be good because he cost a lot to get him
• There's a lot of people who I trust more too, who said this deal, and others were on the table back at the deadline. These same people have way more knowledge than you and others, but I still had to listen to people like you saying those knowledgable people were only "speculating" ...
• You will never convince me in a million years that Achiuwa wasn't on the table at the deadline last year... We could have had NOT taken Dragic's team option and STILL had our cap space... But yes, keep apologizing for the Front Office's handlings of Lowry's going away.

that's exactly it, you have 0 insight on management's view of Dinwiddie yet you continued to push the narrative that giving him a long term contract would've been good asset management over taking on Dragic for one year and getting Achiuwa, disregarding other considerations as to why it didn't or couldn't happen. Also Dinwiddie was never an allstar and coming off a torn ACL. For a player who relies on athleticism the way he does, it's obvious why the front office wouldn't pay him more than 20 mill per year for three years. Even if he becomes a trade asset on that contract, it'd make more sense now to take a stud prospect and the expiring, than signing a player to a long term contract for the sake of using cap space and just getting an asset. That's way too risky, especially when there's an established culture here and there are cheaper younger guys who can be developed within the team culture. It's clear Masai learned from his mistake of signing Demarre Carroll and having to pay a 1st rounder just to get rid of him. He was signed with cap space and ended up begin a negative asset. And you're acting like they can't flip Dragic's expiring for further assets. They have a lot of flexibility you're just failing to see.

You don't work in Miami's front office nor Toronto's. Don't know why you're making assertions of trade offers that were on the table when you actually don't have first hand information of any kind.

[JN]

This idea that management had locked into Achiuwa and are playing 4d chess is laughable.

KOC on the Bill Simmons Podcast said that from what his sources told him Precious, Duncan and matching salary was the deal being discussed at the deadline. We already know what the 76ers package looked like.

The Raptors had the power at the deadline and they chose not to utilize it, instead we are in a situation where Miami flexed their power and you are left with a deal that isn't as good as the ones presented at the deadline. It's simply poor asset management.

We don't know what the Sixers offered.
You choose to believe what was asked for and what was offered to fit your biased agenda.
You totally ignore the reports that Morey chicken pooped us with offers of Maxey + seconds, and instead choose to believe snippets that Morey likely fed to the media (i.e we were asking for 4 young pieces or picks... LMAO)

Let's also remember you have claimed that Morey is a great GM compared to Masai. Morey, a GM that had a great shot to win it all in 2021, that failed to do so because he couldn't complete a fair value trade and instead settled on George freakin Hill. Yep, that's great GM work!!

At the end of the day I blame both Morey and Masai for not getting a deal done. There was an advantageous deal for both sides to agree to, and as seasoned professionals they should have been able to find a fair value deal that worked for both sides. But I blame that turd Morey more - he was one that had much more to gain from completing a deal, and is also a known turd in trade negotiations.

[pingpongrac]

Committing $60MM to a non all star, who will expect to have heavy minutes and be a mainstay rotational player, at a position where you have 3 players that you want to develop under contract for multi years ahead of the depth chart vs. $19 MM to a former all star who would be find playing flex minutes.

Yeah that’s the same thing, cause Dinwiddie is the needle mover we absolutely needed. You keep doing you bruh, that grass is always nothing but green and bug free vs the weed bed that our management has saddled us with.

• First, Dinwiddie has been an All-Star, albeit a borderline one
• Second, did the Raptors not just make a 54m dollar commitment to a non-Allstar in GTJ?
• Third, Is borderline All-Star like Dinwiddie @ 20m per year over three years not a solid trade asset? He doesn't need to be a needle mover
• Fourth, we have 2 players at the guard spots we are trying to develop... If FVV is still developing, than so is Dinwiddie

When was Dinwiddie ever an all star?

He wasn't ever an all-star lol. His best case for being an all-star was in the 19/20 season where he averaged 21.0/3.5/6.6 on 54 TS% for a team that was 25-28 at the ASB. Toronto alone had two just as deserving PGs in Lowry (19.6/4.7/7.6 on 59 TS%) and FVV (18.0/3.7/6.8 on 55 TS%), and one actually made the team.

Furthermore, if OP doesn't see the difference between paying a 28-year-old that just came off an ACL injury 60M over the next 3 years and a 22-year-old 54M over the next 3 years (or ~36 over the next 2), I don't know what to say.

[mdenny]

For those saying "i cant believe we wasted pur capspace on dragic". Aren't we just kicking our capspace to next summer instead? He's an expiring.

We either trade him for prospects or we keep him and have 20 milly to spend next summer. Is that not the case? Am i missing something?

If i'm not overlooking something...wasnt this also a really bad year for free agents? Arent we better off spending our capspace next summer?

With boucher also expiring next summer....thats 27 milly. Only a move or away from targetting a max contract player no?

Or we could potentially make a run at valneciunas or nurkic. I see 3 options with dragic:

Trade him now....take back powell and 2 picks/prospects.

Trade him at deadline.

Or keep him and use the capspace next summer.

All 3 options seem pretty good to me..

Also think he's pretty underated if ee go for option 3. He will help us win to some degree. Might end up being the guy we give the ball for last possessions. Or at least another option for those scenarios.

[Courtside]

This idea that management had locked into Achiuwa and are playing 4d chess is laughable.

KOC on the Bill Simmons Podcast said that from what his sources told him Precious, Duncan and matching salary was the deal being discussed at the deadline. We already know what the 76ers package looked like.

The Raptors had the power at the deadline and they chose not to utilize it, instead we are in a situation where Miami flexed their power and you are left with a deal that isn't as good as the ones presented at the deadline. It's simply poor asset management.

We don't know what the Sixers offered.
You choose to believe what was asked for and what was offered to fit your biased agenda.
You totally ignore the reports that Morey chicken pooped us with offers of Maxey + seconds, and instead choose to believe snippets that Morey likely fed to the media (i.e we were asking for 4 young pieces or picks... LMAO)

Let's also remember you have claimed that Morey is a great GM compared to Masai. A GM that had a great shot to win it all in 2021, that failed to do so because he couldn't complete a fair value trade and instead settled on George freakin Hill.

At the end of the day I blame both Morey and Masai for not getting a deal done. There was an advantageous deal for both sides to agree to, and as seasoned professionals they should have been able to find a fair value deal that worked for both sides. But I blame that turd Morey more based on his pedigree.

Further to this, we know with 100% certainty that the reported ask of Maxey, Thybulle and 2 picks is either a lie, or at minimum missing some key details.

To expand...

Kyle was making $30 mil last year, and both teams were well over the cap. which means the 76ers would have to take a minimum of $24 million from Toronto, and both teams probably wanting the deal to be as even as possible to avoid tax issues. If anything, we were further from the tax and likely able to absorb salary if the deal was worth it.

So think a little... if Maxey and Thybulle were making about $5 mil conbined, where is the extra $19-25 million coming from? Danny Green, you say? That gets you to $19 mil total and still short, and that player and his $14 mil were probably not wanted by Toronto. Also, it was reported that the offer was Maxey and Green, and that Masai asked for Thybulle or a pick to be included, which Morey rebuffed, so that was really just $16.5 million total. We do not know what other salaries Philly was trying to send to Toronto, but there must have been others in order for any trade to be possible, but the Raptors would logically have avoided any bad contracts and/or countered that sweetener would be needed to take those contracts (much like the Dragic to Dallas talks where they want to send us undesirable contracts).

So use some deductive reasoning here and imagine how this may have gone. Morey has to include contract filler that Toronto doesn't want, right? That filler will be responded to by saying "If we take so-and-so, we'll need a pick to make thing fair". Now, imagine Morey looks at his roster and sees Tobias Harris making over $30 mil by himself and makes a counter to Toronto of Harris and Maxey, which Toronto could easily reply to with "If you want to dump Harris on us, we're going to need Thybulle and at least two first round picks", which pretty much anyone would agree is a reasonable counter to such a bad contract.

Morey disagrees, chooses George freakin Hill instead, and puts out a story that our ask was way too high to explain why they couldn't get a deal done.

^^ That is all supposition on my part, not reports ^^

In short, anyone using any of the reports about what we asked for is using incorrect or partial information, which does not help their case in the mabber they think. The deals proposed were not possible under the cap, and we have no idea what cap-possible deals were actually discussed. It's all conjecture based on incomplete information.

The fact that a deal couldn't get done, and the fact that Morey has repeatedly proven himself to be a huff-n-puff negotiator who leaks things to the media to help his case (especially when contrasted with the Raps FO), should probably tell you that taking the Philly side of this story is not a wise thing. Not to say that there is a different factual story for us to base things on, but to repeat - no one knows the actual deals and to claim any of the reports as supporting evidence is a mistake, since the reports are demonstrably wrong.

[Skeezo]

Furthermore, if OP doesn't see the difference between paying a 28-year-old that just came off an ACL injury 60M over the next 3 years and a 22-year-old 54M over the next 3 years (or ~36 over the next 2), I don't know what to say.

So is your logic here that if superior player has an injury the younger player should automatically be worth more? Does that mean Lonzo Ball's deal would be smarter money than signing Kawhi?

[Courtside]

Furthermore, if OP doesn't see the difference between paying a 28-year-old that just came off an ACL injury 60M over the next 3 years and a 22-year-old 54M over the next 3 years (or ~36 over the next 2), I don't know what to say.

So is your logic here that if superior player has an injury the younger player should automatically be worth more? Does that mean Lonzo Ball's deal would be smarter money than signing Kawhi?

Depending on the wants and needs of said team, yes, that is absolutely possible. LOTS of teams passed on Kawhi as a Spur and the injury concerns were a major part of that. The Raptots were an en exception to that based on our eants and needs. Simple as that. If our FO thought $20 mil is too steep for Dinwiddie coming off an ACL issue, that's not a crazy thing at all.

Bobby answered that question very clearly, that as news started to trickle out, the players that they had some interest in were going for more dollars than they felt willing to pay. I don't know how much more he could say without naming names.

[Pooh_Jeter]

This idea that management had locked into Achiuwa and are playing 4d chess is laughable.

KOC on the Bill Simmons Podcast said that from what his sources told him Precious, Duncan and matching salary was the deal being discussed at the deadline. We already know what the 76ers package looked like.

The Raptors had the power at the deadline and they chose not to utilize it, instead we are in a situation where Miami flexed their power and you are left with a deal that isn't as good as the ones presented at the deadline. It's simply poor asset management.

We don't know what the Sixers offered.
You choose to believe what was asked for and what was offered to fit your biased agenda.
You totally ignore the reports that Morey chicken pooped us with offers of Maxey + seconds, and instead choose to believe snippets that Morey likely fed to the media (i.e we were asking for 4 young pieces or picks... LMAO)

Let's also remember you have claimed that Morey is a great GM compared to Masai. A GM that had a great shot to win it all in 2021, that failed to do so because he couldn't complete a fair value trade and instead settled on George freakin Hill.

At the end of the day I blame both Morey and Masai for not getting a deal done. There was an advantageous deal for both sides to agree to, and as seasoned professionals they should have been able to find a fair value deal that worked for both sides. But I blame that turd Morey more based on his pedigree.

Further to this, we know with 100% certainty that the reported ask of Maxey, Thybulle and 2 picks is either a lie, or at minimum missing some key details.

To expand...

Kyle was making $30 mil last year, and both teams were well over the cap. which means the 76ers would have to take a minimum of $24 million from Toronto, and both teams probably wanting the deal to be as even as possible to avoid tax issues.

So think a little... if Maxey and Thybulle were making about $5 mil conbined, where is the extra $19-25 million coming from? Danny Green, you say? That gets you to $19 mil total and still short, and that player and his $14 mil were probably not wanted by Toronto. Also, it was reported that the offer was Maxey and Green, and that Masai asked for Thybulle or a pick to be included, which Morey rebuffed, so that was really just $16.5 million total. We do not know what other salaries Philly was trying to send to Toronto, but there must have been others in order for any trade to be possible.

So use some deductive reasoning here and imagine how this may have gone. Morey has to include contract filler that Toronto doesn't want, right? That filler will be responded to by saying "If we take so-and-so, we'll need a pick to make thing fair". Now, imagine Morey looks at his roster and sees Tobias Harris making over $30 mil by himself and makes a counter to Toronto of Harris and Maxey, which Toronto could easily reply to with "If you want to dump Harris on us, we're going to need Thybulle and at least two first round picks", which pretty much anyone would agree is a reasonable counter to such a bad contract.

Morey disagrees, chooses George freakin Hill instead, and puts out a story that our ask was way too high to explain why they couldn't get a deal done.

^^ That is all supposition on my part, not reports ^^

In short, anyone using any of the reports about what we asked for is using incorrect or partial information, which does not help their case in the mabber they think. The deals proposed were not possible under the cap, and we have no idea what cap-possible deals were actually discussed. It's all conjecture based on incomplete information.

The fact that a deal couldn't get done, and the fact that Morey has repeatedly proven himself to be a huff-n-puff negotiator who leaks things to the media to help his case (especially when contrasted with the Raps FO), should probably tell you that taking the Philly side of this story is not a wise thing. Not to say that there is a different factual story for us to base things on, but to repeat - no one knows the actual deals and to claim any of the reports as supporting evidence os a mistake, since the reports are demonstrably wrong.

You are ignoring the actual sourced reporting in favour of your own "deductive reasoning" when you completely miss that Danny Green was going to be re-routed to a 3rd team and the contract filler would have been the contracts used in the Hill trade (Ferguson and Poirer). The Raptors had already cleared two roster spots via trade.

[Ackshun]

slightly underwhelmed by the return. I was hoping for another asset but having Dragic is helpful also.
We dont' have any players over 30. We need vets. He'll be good for leadership. He won't fetch much even if he's traded at the deadline though.

You're probably right but what if Steph or Kyrie or someone important like that goes down, a healthy Dragic would be great in comparison.

I'm glad Masai is playing hardball with Dallas though, he holds all the chips. Yes Dragic will be eating up minutes for our young guys to develop but it won't be long until teams will be calling on Dragic and we could use his veteran savvy for camp and the start of the year.

Besides that why buy him out? So instead of paying him $18m we buy him out and for what? If I'm an MLSE executive that just sounds like $18m down the drain so he can play in Dallas for the vet minimum. No sorry Cuban, give us Powell and your 1st next year and then we'll give you Dragic, otherwise we'll trade him to someone else in your conference

Bruh did you just watch the events leading up to Kyle's departure?

We aren't getting a 1st round pick for Dragic. We aren't getting anything useful.

[Skeezo]

You have zero insight on managements view of Dinwiddie. You’re just propping him because he was available this year. Our team has literally explained their thought process, and has prive. They are not afraid to go after the player they want vs what main stream media tho is is better (check Barnes vs Suggs). You say we’re being apologists. And I laugh. I’m just listening to what’s being said by the people way more knowledgable and in the know them you and I, whom has EARNED my trust. But clearly not yours. Complain bruh, complain and whine. World is your oyster.

• I never once said I had any insight on management's view of Dinwiddie
• I'm not complaining... I'm merely making an opportunity cost analysis of gaining Achuiwa's rights, and saying he better be good because he cost a lot to get him
• There's a lot of people who I trust more too, who said this deal, and others were on the table back at the deadline. These same people have way more knowledge than you and others, but I still had to listen to people like you saying those knowledgable people were only "speculating" ...
• You will never convince me in a million years that Achiuwa wasn't on the table at the deadline last year... We could have had NOT taken Dragic's team option and STILL had our cap space... But yes, keep apologizing for the Front Office's handlings of Lowry's going away.

that's exactly it, you have 0 insight on management's view of Dinwiddie yet you continued to push the narrative that giving him a long term contract would've been good asset management over taking on Dragic for one year and getting Achiuwa, disregarding other considerations as to why it didn't or couldn't happen. Also Dinwiddie was never an allstar and coming off a torn ACL. For a player who relies on athleticism the way he does, it's obvious why the front office wouldn't pay him more than 20 mill per year for three years. Even if he becomes a trade asset on that contract, it'd make more sense now to take a stud prospect and the expiring, than signing a player to a long term contract for the sake of using cap space and just getting an asset. That's way too risky, especially when there's an established culture here and there are cheaper younger guys who can be developed within the team culture. It's clear Masai learned from his mistake of signing Demarre Carroll and having to pay a 1st rounder just to get rid of him. He was signed with cap space and ended up begin a negative asset. And you're acting like they can't flip Dragic's expiring for further assets. They have a lot of flexibility you're just failing to see.

You don't work in Miami's front office nor Toronto's. Don't know why you're making assertions of trade offers that were on the table when you actually don't have first hand information of any kind.

I don't need to have insight on management's view of Dinwiddie to make my own cost analysis of the Lowry S&T. I also don't need to be inside Masai's brain to have my own opinion of what I think is a better trade asset... If Masai says Kobe Bryant is a better player than Lebron and Michael, is that it? The Don has spoken, and shall not be questioned.

Dude, we have watched Keven Durant come back from a rupture achilles... Again, ACL are pretty commonplace now... Z.LaVine just came back from an ACL... Even K.Lowry had torn ACL

20th pick in last years draft is a "Stud Prospect," now who's spreading the narratives?

How many assets did Raps get for Lowry at the deadline last year, & now you're selling me on the idea of Dragic's going to fetch something this year? Can't hustle a hustler bro.

[Courtside]

We don't know what the Sixers offered.
You choose to believe what was asked for and what was offered to fit your biased agenda.
You totally ignore the reports that Morey chicken pooped us with offers of Maxey + seconds, and instead choose to believe snippets that Morey likely fed to the media (i.e we were asking for 4 young pieces or picks... LMAO)

Let's also remember you have claimed that Morey is a great GM compared to Masai. A GM that had a great shot to win it all in 2021, that failed to do so because he couldn't complete a fair value trade and instead settled on George freakin Hill.

At the end of the day I blame both Morey and Masai for not getting a deal done. There was an advantageous deal for both sides to agree to, and as seasoned professionals they should have been able to find a fair value deal that worked for both sides. But I blame that turd Morey more based on his pedigree.

Further to this, we know with 100% certainty that the reported ask of Maxey, Thybulle and 2 picks is either a lie, or at minimum missing some key details.

To expand...

Kyle was making $30 mil last year, and both teams were well over the cap. which means the 76ers would have to take a minimum of $24 million from Toronto, and both teams probably wanting the deal to be as even as possible to avoid tax issues.

So think a little... if Maxey and Thybulle were making about $5 mil conbined, where is the extra $19-25 million coming from? Danny Green, you say? That gets you to $19 mil total and still short, and that player and his $14 mil were probably not wanted by Toronto. Also, it was reported that the offer was Maxey and Green, and that Masai asked for Thybulle or a pick to be included, which Morey rebuffed, so that was really just $16.5 million total. We do not know what other salaries Philly was trying to send to Toronto, but there must have been others in order for any trade to be possible.

So use some deductive reasoning here and imagine how this may have gone. Morey has to include contract filler that Toronto doesn't want, right? That filler will be responded to by saying "If we take so-and-so, we'll need a pick to make thing fair". Now, imagine Morey looks at his roster and sees Tobias Harris making over $30 mil by himself and makes a counter to Toronto of Harris and Maxey, which Toronto could easily reply to with "If you want to dump Harris on us, we're going to need Thybulle and at least two first round picks", which pretty much anyone would agree is a reasonable counter to such a bad contract.

Morey disagrees, chooses George freakin Hill instead, and puts out a story that our ask was way too high to explain why they couldn't get a deal done.

^^ That is all supposition on my part, not reports ^^

In short, anyone using any of the reports about what we asked for is using incorrect or partial information, which does not help their case in the mabber they think. The deals proposed were not possible under the cap, and we have no idea what cap-possible deals were actually discussed. It's all conjecture based on incomplete information.

The fact that a deal couldn't get done, and the fact that Morey has repeatedly proven himself to be a huff-n-puff negotiator who leaks things to the media to help his case (especially when contrasted with the Raps FO), should probably tell you that taking the Philly side of this story is not a wise thing. Not to say that there is a different factual story for us to base things on, but to repeat - no one knows the actual deals and to claim any of the reports as supporting evidence os a mistake, since the reports are demonstrably wrong.

You are ignoring the actual sourced reporting in favour of your own "deductive reasoning" when you completely miss that Danny Green was going to be re-routed to a 3rd team and the contract filler would have been the contracts used in the Hill trade (Ferguson and Poirer). The Raptors had already cleared two roster spots via trade.

First of all, how much did Ferguson and Poirer make last season? How much total salary does it add up to if Green's $14 mil is out?

You still are not providing the details of a trade that would actually work under the CBA, and thus continuing to use incomplete reports to support your case. At l am saying we don't have all the info and deductive reasoning is what is left to us, while you are unwilling or unable to fill in any of those blanks in a way that supports your argument.

Secondly... link to this "sourced reporting" please. There was plenty of reports about us rebuffing the Sixers offers and I don't recall any offering the details you just laid out.

[pingpongrac]

Furthermore, if OP doesn't see the difference between paying a 28-year-old that just came off an ACL injury 60M over the next 3 years and a 22-year-old 54M over the next 3 years (or ~36 over the next 2), I don't know what to say.

So is your logic here that if superior player has an injury the younger player should automatically be worth more? Does that mean Lonzo Ball's deal would be smarter money than signing Kawhi?

You can't be serious? Do you seriously think the difference between Dinwiddie and GTJ is equal to the difference between Lonzo and Kawhi?

Dinwiddie is a bit of a glorified chucker averaging 16 PPG on 41/32/80 shooting the last 4 seasons (since having a bigger role) while GTJ has averaged 12 PPG on 42/40/80 shooting the last 2 season (since he became a consistent player in Portland/Toronto). These are two pretty comparable players, especially when considering one is 22 and trending upwards while the other is 28 and coming off a pretty devastating injury. If Lonzo was a superstar like Kawhi, then this would be a discussion...but Lonzo is far closer to Dinwiddie/GTJ's level than he is Kawhi's level.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

[Skeezo]

Furthermore, if OP doesn't see the difference between paying a 28-year-old that just came off an ACL injury 60M over the next 3 years and a 22-year-old 54M over the next 3 years (or ~36 over the next 2), I don't know what to say.

So is your logic here that if superior player has an injury the younger player should automatically be worth more? Does that mean Lonzo Ball's deal would be smarter money than signing Kawhi?

Depending on the wants and needs of said team, yes, that is absolutely possible. LOTS of teams passed on Kawhi as a Spur and the injury concerns were a major part of that. The Raptots were an en exception to that based on our eants and needs. Simple as that. If our FO thought $20 mil is too steep for Dinwiddie coming off an ACL issue, that's not a crazy thing at all.

Bobby answered that question very clearly, that as news started to trickle out, the players that they had some interest in were going for more dollars than they felt willing to pay. I don't know how much more he could say without naming names.

You're choosing to believe Bobby's spin... Just like the B.S line about Dragic, how "we want him here" even though they been trying to find a third team which came straight from Dragic's mouth...

The front office thought Powell's number was going be over 20m, which why they made the move to get GTJ who they thought would be cheaper, but ultimately signed him to a better deal than Powell. The front office was worried of a backlash from the fan base to see Kyle Lowry, yet another piece from the Championship leave for nothing. As a result, they went and made a deal that is clearly in favour of Miami in every way to make the appearance that the Raptors got something for Kyle.

[JPriest]

• I never once said I had any insight on management's view of Dinwiddie
• I'm not complaining... I'm merely making an opportunity cost analysis of gaining Achuiwa's rights, and saying he better be good because he cost a lot to get him
• There's a lot of people who I trust more too, who said this deal, and others were on the table back at the deadline. These same people have way more knowledge than you and others, but I still had to listen to people like you saying those knowledgable people were only "speculating" ...
• You will never convince me in a million years that Achiuwa wasn't on the table at the deadline last year... We could have had NOT taken Dragic's team option and STILL had our cap space... But yes, keep apologizing for the Front Office's handlings of Lowry's going away.

that's exactly it, you have 0 insight on management's view of Dinwiddie yet you continued to push the narrative that giving him a long term contract would've been good asset management over taking on Dragic for one year and getting Achiuwa, disregarding other considerations as to why it didn't or couldn't happen. Also Dinwiddie was never an allstar and coming off a torn ACL. For a player who relies on athleticism the way he does, it's obvious why the front office wouldn't pay him more than 20 mill per year for three years. Even if he becomes a trade asset on that contract, it'd make more sense now to take a stud prospect and the expiring, than signing a player to a long term contract for the sake of using cap space and just getting an asset. That's way too risky, especially when there's an established culture here and there are cheaper younger guys who can be developed within the team culture. It's clear Masai learned from his mistake of signing Demarre Carroll and having to pay a 1st rounder just to get rid of him. He was signed with cap space and ended up begin a negative asset. And you're acting like they can't flip Dragic's expiring for further assets. They have a lot of flexibility you're just failing to see.

You don't work in Miami's front office nor Toronto's. Don't know why you're making assertions of trade offers that were on the table when you actually don't have first hand information of any kind.

I don't need to have insight on management's view of Dinwiddie to make my own cost analysis of Lowry S&T. I also don't need to be inside Masai's brain to have my own opinion of what I think is a better trade asset... If Masai says Kobe Bryant is a better player than Lebron and Michael, is that it? The Don has spoken, and shall not be questioned.

Dude, we have watched Keven Durant come back from a rupture achilles... Again, ACL are pretty commonplace now... Z.LaVine just cam back from an ACL... Even K.Lowry had torn ACL

20th pick in last years draft is a "Stud Prospect," now who's spreading the narratives.

How many assets did Raps get for Lowry at the deadline last year, & now you're selling me on the idea of Dragic's going to fetch something this year? Can't hustle a hustler bro.

your cost analysis is poor and way too simple minded and fails to consider a lot of possible factors as to why the Raptors didn't go for Dinwiddie. It's like everything is black and white to you and you can't see any grey in between. just because the cap space could've been available, it's spend it all on a player coming off a major knee injury or fail to you. glad you're not the GM with your narrow minded thinking. and Masai and Bobby are the ones who speak to agents and have first hand knowledge of everything that's going on. you absolutely do not. you're just some guy on the internet. and here you go again with your mindless assertions to support your weak arguments. masai saying kobe over michael and lebron? come on dude, get outta here with this elementary school comparison.

it's not just that he's just coming off a major injury. there are other factors to consider which you don't in your amateur cost analysis. the front office has a different team building philosophy then you do. it sounds like you're more of Brian Colangelo type than anything. just spend money, use up cap space, kill flexibility to make some noise.

yes he is a stud prospect in my eyes. feel free to disagree but getting a first round draft pick with the physical tools he has and the flashes he's shown of being a starting player in this league is absolutely better than killing your flexibility and stunting the growth of players with Spencer Dinwiddie.

Again with your weak logic. Just because no Lowry trade was made last season doesn't mean Dragic can't be traded the next trade deadline for some assets. They have different contracts, different situations can arise with other teams with injuries etc. they don't even have to trade him and they free up 19m in commitment next season. you don't sound like a hustler at all lmao, you're not smart enough to be one.

[aligator]

LOL what utter nonsense. GTJ is better contract with more flexibilty for better player. Lowry is in decline and was going to Miami no matter what. Jays ahead big time.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Further to this, we know with 100% certainty that the reported ask of Maxey, Thybulle and 2 picks is either a lie, or at minimum missing some key details.

To expand...

Kyle was making $30 mil last year, and both teams were well over the cap. which means the 76ers would have to take a minimum of $24 million from Toronto, and both teams probably wanting the deal to be as even as possible to avoid tax issues.

So think a little... if Maxey and Thybulle were making about $5 mil conbined, where is the extra $19-25 million coming from? Danny Green, you say? That gets you to $19 mil total and still short, and that player and his $14 mil were probably not wanted by Toronto. Also, it was reported that the offer was Maxey and Green, and that Masai asked for Thybulle or a pick to be included, which Morey rebuffed, so that was really just $16.5 million total. We do not know what other salaries Philly was trying to send to Toronto, but there must have been others in order for any trade to be possible.

So use some deductive reasoning here and imagine how this may have gone. Morey has to include contract filler that Toronto doesn't want, right? That filler will be responded to by saying "If we take so-and-so, we'll need a pick to make thing fair". Now, imagine Morey looks at his roster and sees Tobias Harris making over $30 mil by himself and makes a counter to Toronto of Harris and Maxey, which Toronto could easily reply to with "If you want to dump Harris on us, we're going to need Thybulle and at least two first round picks", which pretty much anyone would agree is a reasonable counter to such a bad contract.

Morey disagrees, chooses George freakin Hill instead, and puts out a story that our ask was way too high to explain why they couldn't get a deal done.

^^ That is all supposition on my part, not reports ^^

In short, anyone using any of the reports about what we asked for is using incorrect or partial information, which does not help their case in the mabber they think. The deals proposed were not possible under the cap, and we have no idea what cap-possible deals were actually discussed. It's all conjecture based on incomplete information.

The fact that a deal couldn't get done, and the fact that Morey has repeatedly proven himself to be a huff-n-puff negotiator who leaks things to the media to help his case (especially when contrasted with the Raps FO), should probably tell you that taking the Philly side of this story is not a wise thing. Not to say that there is a different factual story for us to base things on, but to repeat - no one knows the actual deals and to claim any of the reports as supporting evidence os a mistake, since the reports are demonstrably wrong.

You are ignoring the actual sourced reporting in favour of your own "deductive reasoning" when you completely miss that Danny Green was going to be re-routed to a 3rd team and the contract filler would have been the contracts used in the Hill trade (Ferguson and Poirer). The Raptors had already cleared two roster spots via trade.

First of all, how much did Ferguson and Poirer make last season? How much total salary does it add up to if Green's $14 mil is out?

You still are not providing the details of a trade that would actually work under the CBA, and thus continuing to use incomplete reports to support your case. At l am saying we don't have all the info and deductive reasoning is what is left to us, while you are unwilling or unable to fill in any of those blanks in a way that supports your argument.

Secondly... link to this "sourced reporting" please. There was plenty of reports about us rebuffing the Sixers offers and I don't recall any offering the details you just laid out.

You don't even know how much Ferguson and Poirer make yet you are confident it doesn't work under the CBA? If you add Maxey, Green, Ferguson and Poirer together you have the framework of a legal trade.

There have been sources posted in all the Lowry trade related threads and there were dozens of pages of discussion in the TWO thread about it which included sources from Philly beat writers, Windhorst and Lowe.

At a certain point we need to deal with facts, not personal agendas or deductive reasoning which is absent of all the information available.

[pingpongrac]

You are ignoring the actual sourced reporting in favour of your own "deductive reasoning" when you completely miss that Danny Green was going to be re-routed to a 3rd team and the contract filler would have been the contracts used in the Hill trade (Ferguson and Poirer). The Raptors had already cleared two roster spots via trade.

First of all, how much did Ferguson and Poirer make last season? How much total salary does it add up to if Green's $14 mil is out?

You still are not providing the details of a trade that would actually work under the CBA, and thus continuing to use incomplete reports to support your case. At l am saying we don't have all the info and deductive reasoning is what is left to us, while you are unwilling or unable to fill in any of those blanks in a way that supports your argument.

Secondly... link to this "sourced reporting" please. There was plenty of reports about us rebuffing the Sixers offers and I don't recall any offering the details you just laid out.

You don't even know how much Ferguson and Poirer make yet you are confident it doesn't work under the CBA? If you add Maxey, Green, Ferguson and Poirer together you have the framework of a legal trade.

There have been sources posted in all the Lowry trade related threads and there were dozens of pages of discussion in the TWO thread about it which included sources from Philly beat writers, Windhorst and Lowe.

At a certain point we need to deal with facts, not personal agendas or deductive reasoning which is absent of all the information available.

This is the most ironic sentence I have ever read on this entire forum. Bravo.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

[Skeezo]

that's exactly it, you have 0 insight on management's view of Dinwiddie yet you continued to push the narrative that giving him a long term contract would've been good asset management over taking on Dragic for one year and getting Achiuwa, disregarding other considerations as to why it didn't or couldn't happen. Also Dinwiddie was never an allstar and coming off a torn ACL. For a player who relies on athleticism the way he does, it's obvious why the front office wouldn't pay him more than 20 mill per year for three years. Even if he becomes a trade asset on that contract, it'd make more sense now to take a stud prospect and the expiring, than signing a player to a long term contract for the sake of using cap space and just getting an asset. That's way too risky, especially when there's an established culture here and there are cheaper younger guys who can be developed within the team culture. It's clear Masai learned from his mistake of signing Demarre Carroll and having to pay a 1st rounder just to get rid of him. He was signed with cap space and ended up begin a negative asset. And you're acting like they can't flip Dragic's expiring for further assets. They have a lot of flexibility you're just failing to see.

You don't work in Miami's front office nor Toronto's. Don't know why you're making assertions of trade offers that were on the table when you actually don't have first hand information of any kind.

I don't need to have insight on management's view of Dinwiddie to make my own cost analysis of Lowry S&T. I also don't need to be inside Masai's brain to have my own opinion of what I think is a better trade asset... If Masai says Kobe Bryant is a better player than Lebron and Michael, is that it? The Don has spoken, and shall not be questioned.

Dude, we have watched Keven Durant come back from a rupture achilles... Again, ACL are pretty commonplace now... Z.LaVine just cam back from an ACL... Even K.Lowry had torn ACL

20th pick in last years draft is a "Stud Prospect," now who's spreading the narratives.

How many assets did Raps get for Lowry at the deadline last year, & now you're selling me on the idea of Dragic's going to fetch something this year? Can't hustle a hustler bro.

your cost analysis is poor and way too simple minded and fails to consider a lot of possible factors as to why the Raptors didn't go for Dinwiddie. It's like everything is black and white to you and you can't see any grey in between. just because the cap space could've been available, it's spend it all on a player coming off a major knee injury or fail to you. glad you're not the GM with your narrow minded thinking. and Masai and Bobby are the ones who speak to agents and have first hand knowledge of everything that's going on. you absolutely do not. you're just some guy on the internet. and here you go again with your mindless assertions to support your weak arguments. masai saying kobe over michael and lebron? come on dude, get outta here with this elementary school comparison.

it's not just that he's just coming off a major injury. there are other factors to consider which you don't in your amateur cost analysis. the front office has a different team building philosophy then you do. it sounds like you're more of Brian Colangelo type than anything. just spend money, use up cap space, kill flexibility to make some noise.

yes he is a stud prospect in my eyes. feel free to disagree but getting a first round draft pick with the physical tools he has and the flashes he's shown of being a starting player in this league is absolutely better than killing your flexibility and stunting the growth of players with Spencer Dinwiddie.

Again with your weak logic. Just because no Lowry trade was made last season doesn't mean Dragic can't be traded the next trade deadline for some assets. They have different contracts, different situations can arise with other teams with injuries etc. they don't even have to trade him and they free up 19m in commitment next season. you don't sound like a hustler at all lmao, you're not smart enough to be one.

Let me help you out... If all you can do is give ad hominem attacks to try to prove you have a good point, it means you have no point... All I heard... your simple minded... blah blah blah.... narrow thinking... blah blah blah ... mindless assertions... blah blah blah ... weak logic... blah blah blah... just some guy on the internet... blah blah blah...

Guess what sunshine? You're just some guy on the internet too... Achiuwa being a "stud prospect" in YOUR eyes is no better than "my amateur cost analysis" ... You're not sitting in FO meetings and you're not being paid a salary to back Masai up on the internet, so settle down with your sanctimony... Finally, let's be clear, I brought up Dinwiddie as an anecdotal example of a very good player who could have been gotten for a good salary in response to YOUR anecdotal example of R.Holmes' contract who you deemed was a bad contract...

If you are asking me what I would actually do? I would have sold the cap space to the highest bidder. I know around here with all you nuanced non-black & white thinkers who only see cap space as a means of signing free agents have a difficult time with this thought. It's only us binary thinkers who recognize that even though these teams are owned by billionaires, they often don't like to throw money around lightly, and if there is a way of saving them millions in luxury tax by trading away picks they will advise their GMs to do so.