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PG: We May Never Lose Again

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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#261 » by Tor_Raps » Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:31 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Siakam pissed me off so much on that play. Like wtf are u doing there lol.

While Barnes was amazing to make up for Siakam quitting on the play, it definitely was a goaltend lol.

Man you guys would be **** nutting if Scottie played defense and knocked the ball out of PWill like that.

Coasting towards the other end in a borderline blowout with 90 seconds left though is what we focus on :lol:


Not only that, the people here crying about the playin game. Losing the playin game helped ensure we didn't offer Fred stupid money. What might have happened had we actually showed well in round 1, winning 2 or 3 games?


No clue why these comments are directed at me when I'm telling people to stfu about the Siakam hate lol. It's a horrible basketball play regardless when everyone else is still busting their ass on the court.

And we already offered stupid money to Fred... we just got lucky that Houston decided to offer even more stupid money to him. Although things have been working out for them team wise so far lol.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#262 » by bluerap23 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:33 pm

Dalek wrote:Precious with one of those games that shows you his talent. Few guys can defend, dribble and board like he can. Even his passing even looked better.

He still has his poor decision moments but when he plays with force he can be a 6 man type.

People gave up on him too easy. The groin injury was a factor.


2 bad decisions in limited mins. Not terrible but he needs to cut that in half. I am seeing improvement.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#263 » by Madvillainy2004 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:05 pm

ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:
hyper316 wrote:Schroder is not the ideal starting point guard, he would be awesome leading the bench tho

But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#264 » by Kingsway_fan » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:07 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:
hyper316 wrote:Schroder is not the ideal starting point guard, he would be awesome leading the bench tho

But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Actually, Damon Stodamire ... he was amazing ...
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#265 » by SnotoriousBIG » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:42 pm

djsunyc wrote:
Potential wrote:Sorry to kill ur little high but this little winning thing is unsustainable and Masai needs to get on that phone asap. Scottie deserves better than this


this is easily the 2nd best post of the night.

every other post is tied for 1st.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#266 » by Shakril » Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:24 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
bape_lovers wrote:Dude, did Potel played all 48 mins? Did potel stop the guards from penetrating? Do you look at box score, OH THE CENTRE DIDNT DO ****

ConSarnit wrote:
He did? CHI shot 20/26 (77%) in the restricted area in that game. They scored 52 points in the paint.

We got absolutely killed at the rim. Isn’t it Poeltl’s job to fix that? I don’t think he’s the main reason he lost but a big reason we brought him in was for rim protection and he definitely didn’t provide that in the play-in game.


He was brought in, in large part, to protect the rim. He definitely wasn’t brought in to score (scored 7 pts in the playin game and turned the ball over 5 times). Poeltl has 2 main jobs: roll to the rim and protect the rim. He didn’t do the second part. He’s not the only one to blame but when you’re a C a large part of your job is to clean up messes. That’s part of the job description, it’s why he’s making $20m a year. He was not good in that game. It’s the same as Gary going 0-5 from 3. When you have very specific roles on the team and you don’t come through you didn’t have a good game.

Our rim protection was terrible that game and that’s Poeltl’s job. If he can’t clean up the messes or he was being stretched out by Vuc and couldn’t recover that’s on Poeltl.

Again, not all of this is on Poeltl but he has very specific duties in which he failed. No one could have watched that game and thought we did a good job protecting the rim.

Consider these stats for Poeltl (a defensive minded C) and tell me it was a “good game”

7/8/3 with 5 turnovers in 37min

Opposing team shoots 20/26 at the rim.

How could anyone be satisfied with that performance?


I was satisfied with everybodies performance until the 4Q, inlcuding Poeltls. He had Vuc under Control, provided Defense and was generally available for screens and other Helpfull tasks like boxing out. He does many good things, that are not visible in the BoxScore. Just looking at Stats without the proper context, can be very misleading.

Overall the Raptors were the better team the first 3Q. Our Starters played well.

The 4Q was simply a Choke Job the Raptors as a team are known for. And thats were the Bulls made all their Damage.

Here the Replay for those that are interested:

At the Start of the 4Q we were up 11. (Up 16 in the 3Q with 3:46 to go)
After 3 mins in the 4Q, when Poeltl first came in, that lead has already shrunk to 5!
At 3:11 after FVV made a 3, we were at 100:100. At that Point there was no lead anymore.

Play by Play the last 3:11 (Poeltl not on the court);

Lavine hits a Layup 102:100; (Bulls first)
Trent misses a 3;
DeRozean makes a Floater; 104:100
Barnes makes 1of 2 FT; 104:101
Vuc mises a 3, lavine grabs the OFF reb
Lavine misses a layup

(Poeltl comes in)
Caruso misses a layup
FVV misses a 3, Barnes grabs the OFF reb
Barnes misses a Layup
lavine misses a 3
Siakam makes 1 of 2 FT; 104:102
DeRozean makes 1 of 2 FT (their only miss btw); 105:102

(Poeltl comes out)
Siakam makes a dunk; 105:104
Lavine makes 2 of 2 FT; 107:104

(Poeltl comes in)
Siakam makes 1 of 3 FT; 107:105 with 12 seconds to go

At that point game is over and the last 2 FT made by Lavine are just to seal the deal

So tell me, please, were in all of this, Poeltl is the main culprit for the loss.
Both times Bulls scored at the rim in Crunchtime, Poeltl wasnt even on the court.


The Starters +/- for the 4th Quarter:

Poeltl was - 8, Barnes -9, the rest of the starters were -13.

Poeltl and Siakam were the only Players with a positive net rating for the course of the game: +6 both.

Guess who was a negative for the Bulls, yes Vucevic, the Matchup for Poeltl.

Our Shooting in the 4th:

50% from FT
40% from the field
16,7% from 3

Bulls outscored the Raptors 37 to 24.

In Conclusion:

We lost the game in the 4th Quarter, cause the entire team as a collective decided to play bad.
On offense and Defense. Everybody was to blame without exceptions.
Also give credit to the Bulls. They fought hard, got hot in the 4th, and made many tough shots that were well defended.
They were 63,2% in the 4Q, even against bad teams, thats a hard number to reach.

But for those, that simply have an Agenda against particular Players, be it FVV, Siakam, Trent or Poeltl, they will always pin the blame on that Player alone. No matter the evidence against it.

But sadly it is easier to quote a box score, say player X is trash, than to explain the proper context under which said Box Score came to be in the first place. Thus my long answer to it.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#267 » by binjumper » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:36 pm

Damn we win a game and people are crying about last year playin game. **** fanbase :lol:
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#268 » by Dennis 37 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:42 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:
hyper316 wrote:Schroder is not the ideal starting point guard, he would be awesome leading the bench tho

But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Fred did that to himself. Yes bench mob Fred was good, and championship Fred did have his great moments, but drive into three taller players Fred and pecking order Fred really soured people.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#269 » by ForeverTFC » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:44 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:
hyper316 wrote:Schroder is not the ideal starting point guard, he would be awesome leading the bench tho

But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Damon, Calderon, TJ, FVV, hell probably Alvin are all better than Schroder. Is Schroder even better than Chris Childs?
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#270 » by Dennis 37 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:47 pm

Spoiler:
Shakril wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
bape_lovers wrote:Dude, did Potel played all 48 mins? Did potel stop the guards from penetrating? Do you look at box score, OH THE CENTRE DIDNT DO ****



He was brought in, in large part, to protect the rim. He definitely wasn’t brought in to score (scored 7 pts in the playin game and turned the ball over 5 times). Poeltl has 2 main jobs: roll to the rim and protect the rim. He didn’t do the second part. He’s not the only one to blame but when you’re a C a large part of your job is to clean up messes. That’s part of the job description, it’s why he’s making $20m a year. He was not good in that game. It’s the same as Gary going 0-5 from 3. When you have very specific roles on the team and you don’t come through you didn’t have a good game.

Our rim protection was terrible that game and that’s Poeltl’s job. If he can’t clean up the messes or he was being stretched out by Vuc and couldn’t recover that’s on Poeltl.

Again, not all of this is on Poeltl but he has very specific duties in which he failed. No one could have watched that game and thought we did a good job protecting the rim.

Consider these stats for Poeltl (a defensive minded C) and tell me it was a “good game”

7/8/3 with 5 turnovers in 37min

Opposing team shoots 20/26 at the rim.

How could anyone be satisfied with that performance?


I was satisfied with everybodies performance until the 4Q, inlcuding Poeltls. He had Vuc under Control, provided Defense and was generally available for screens and other Helpfull tasks like boxing out. He does many good things, that are not visible in the BoxScore. Just looking at Stats without the proper context, can be very misleading.

Overall the Raptors were the better team the first 3Q. Our Starters played well.

The 4Q was simply a Choke Job the Raptors as a team are known for. And thats were the Bulls made all their Damage.

Here the Replay for those that are interested:

At the Start of the 4Q we were up 11. (Up 16 in the 3Q with 3:46 to go)
After 3 mins in the 4Q, when Poeltl first came in, that lead has already shrunk to 5!
At 3:11 after FVV made a 3, we were at 100:100. At that Point there was no lead anymore.

Play by Play the last 3:11 (Poeltl not on the court);

Lavine hits a Layup 102:100; (Bulls first)
Trent misses a 3;
DeRozean makes a Floater; 104:100
Barnes makes 1of 2 FT; 104:101
Vuc mises a 3, lavine grabs the OFF reb
Lavine misses a layup

(Poeltl comes in)
Caruso misses a layup
FVV misses a 3, Barnes grabs the OFF reb
Barnes misses a Layup
lavine misses a 3
Siakam makes 1 of 2 FT; 104:102
DeRozean makes 1 of 2 FT (their only miss btw); 105:102

(Poeltl comes out)
Siakam makes a dunk; 105:104
Lavine makes 2 of 2 FT; 107:104

(Poeltl comes in)
Siakam makes 1 of 3 FT; 107:105 with 12 seconds to go

At that point game is over and the last 2 FT made by Lavine are just to seal the deal

So tell me, please, were in all of this, Poeltl is the main culprit for the loss.
Both times Bulls scored at the rim in Crunchtime, Poeltl wasnt even on the court.


The Starters +/- for the 4th Quarter:

Poeltl was - 8, Barnes -9, the rest of the starters were -13.

Poeltl and Siakam were the only Players with a positive net rating for the course of the game: +6 both.

Guess who was a negative for the Bulls, yes Vucevic, the Matchup for Poeltl.

Our Shooting in the 4th:

50% from FT
40% from the field
16,7% from 3

Bulls outscored the Raptors 37 to 24.

In Conclusion:

We lost the game in the 4th Quarter, cause the entire team as a collective decided to play bad.
On offense and Defense. Everybody was to blame without exceptions.
Also give credit to the Bulls. They fought hard, got hot in the 4th, and made many tough shots that were well defended.
They were 63,2% in the 4Q, even against bad teams, thats a hard number to reach.

But for those, that simply have an Agenda against particular Players, be it FVV, Siakam, Trent or Poeltl, they will always pin the blame on that Player alone. No matter the evidence against it.

But sadly it is easier to quote a box score, say player X is trash, than to explain the proper context under which said Box Score came to be in the first place. Thus my long answer to it.


The season was lost long before that playin game. The team and Nurse were not on the same page and may not even have liked each other. Blaming player A or B for a single game is a waste of time when we could see that team was going nowhere in the playoffs. If the team, and coach, were a well oiled machine, they wouldn't have had to win a playin game.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#271 » by YelloC » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:06 pm

8-8 isn’t bad for a team with as much upheaval as we’ve had this year.
We seem to be rounding into form a little and showing glimpses of what our identity as a team will look like.
If we get two bench guys playing with some consistency and a mini breakout game from one of the other subs each night, we could actually put a little run together.
Also, starting games better would go a long way.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#272 » by Ell Curry » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:09 pm

Chandan wrote:I am having a hard time calling Dennis a pg. He has been more of a sg that brings the ball up and sometimes initiating an action. That's it.


He's 12th in the league in assists and Sabonis, Jokic and LeBron aren't PGs (LeBron maybe is), so he's either 9th or 10th among PGs in assists. Definitely a PG, just a lower usage one. Used to be a very common PG, perhaps even the most common, but nowadays it feels like only Schroeder, Tyus Jones and Conley are really traditional non-star PGs starting, though Tre Jones would be to if San Antonio was trying to win and not develop Sochan/tank to secure a top 3 pick to get a star guard to pair with Wemby,
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#273 » by Chandan » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:17 pm

Ell Curry wrote:
Chandan wrote:I am having a hard time calling Dennis a pg. He has been more of a sg that brings the ball up and sometimes initiating an action. That's it.


He's 12th in the league in assists and Sabonis, Jokic and LeBron aren't PGs (LeBron maybe is), so he's either 9th or 10th among PGs in assists. Definitely a PG, just a lower usage one. Used to be a very common PG, perhaps even the most common, but nowadays it feels like only Schroeder, Tyus Jones and Conley are really traditional non-star PGs starting, though Tre Jones would be to if San Antonio was trying to win and not develop Sochan/tank to secure a top 3 pick to get a star guard to pair with Wemby,


it's not really a slight to him. Overall i am pretty happy with how he has played so far. (we will see if that changes when his shooting normalizes)
I said he doesn't play like a PG simply because he's not a floor general type in the mold of lowry. The difference for me between a floor general and non floor general is that one reacts to a situation, and the other anticipates and creates a situation.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#274 » by Madvillainy2004 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:21 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
Madvillainy2004 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Fred did that to himself. Yes bench mob Fred was good, and championship Fred did have his great moments, but drive into three taller players Fred and pecking order Fred really soured people.


It's funnier to me that people love BPM/RAPTOR/EPM when it comes to Scottie this year. But bring up Fred's impact stats and he was just a midget ball hog who never passed and hurt a team (who's ceiling regardless of coaching last year was a first round exit).
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#275 » by Dennis 37 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:26 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
Madvillainy2004 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Damon, Calderon, TJ, FVV, hell probably Alvin are all better than Schroder. Is Schroder even better than Chris Childs?


When discussing Schröder take into consideration value for money. Dennis is making 12.75 million.

Dennis - 7.3% of the cap
Damon @ 30 was making 12,375,000 - 28% of cap
Jose @ 30 was making 9,780,992 - 16% of cap
FVV @ 29 was making 21,250,000 - 17% of cap
Alvin @ 30 was making 5,500,000 - 12.5% of cap
TJ, unfortunately was done by 30, but at 27 was making 8,500,000 - 14.6% of cap he made a similar percentage when on the Raptors.

So when you look at how good Dennis is, or is not, one has to consider money. We are not paying him Damon, Jose, FVV, Alvin, or TJ money, we simply are not. For the money we are paying him, I think we are getting good value. We have three free agents this summer, and if the team decides it wants all three, for keeps or to trade later, having a large contract PG right now would not be good.

Chris Childs was not a player that even creates a memory except for one game where he forgot the score.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#276 » by Dennis 37 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:30 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:
Madvillainy2004 wrote:
Fred disrespect is wild dude lol


Fred did that to himself. Yes bench mob Fred was good, and championship Fred did have his great moments, but drive into three taller players Fred and pecking order Fred really soured people.


It's funnier to me that people love BPM/RAPTOR/EPM when it comes to Scottie this year. But bring up Fred's impact stats and he was just a midget ball hog who never passed and hurt a team (who's ceiling regardless of coaching last year was a first round exit).


It was never about Fred's talent.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#277 » by Ell Curry » Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:20 am

LascelleL wrote:
Ell Curry wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:But he’s the second best point guard this franchise has ever had.


I don't really know how you parse between Stoudamire, Calderon and Schroeder. They were all basically exactly the same level of player (Damon's raw stats better because his teammates couldn't create anything) but if Schroeder's 3pt shooting regresses to 34% or so I'd guess that he'll be #3 (or #4 if you prefer Stoudamire, who did later start for good Portland teams) behind Calderon for his strengths (shooting, incredible A/TO) over Dennis' (driving, not good on defence but better than Calderon), particularly on this team where we have defenders but could use more shooting.


The Fred disrespect is wild.


Haha I plain forgot. Of course it's Fred at #2 ahead of all those guys.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#278 » by NBA Sheady » Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 am

19.5121951% of the way through the season and we're at 500 :D.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#279 » by rapsincr » Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:55 am

lol such wild swings with this team, seems like we are too good to be a lottery team and not good enough to really do any serious damage, so ima just enjoy the scottie ride and pray that we dont waste any picks trying to make the play-in this year. fingers crossed they pick an actual direction though since i dont wanna be a 500 team, literally the worst of both worlds.
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Re: PG: We May Never Lose Again 

Post#280 » by ImaBeatDatAzz » Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:49 am

Fvv is just not a better pg than Schroder sorry lol. Schroder is better in every aspect of the game except for threes.
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