Raptors attempting to trade up in the draft

[deeps6x]

I would like to trade up #19 with any of Brown, Boucher, Agbaji and trade down from #31 to gain another 2nd pick.

Yep.
Trade up to #13 with the Kings. (#13+Huerter+Veznekov for #19+Brown+McDaniels)
and/or
Tradeup to #9 with Memphis. (#9+Kennard for Poeltl) This works by itself, or they could throw in LaRavia or Konchar if they want to toss us a little more salary (hell, we'll take both of them).

Maybe try #19+#31 for #24+#25. If the Knicks really covet someone that's fallen to #19 unexpectedly.

Then find a way to make #31 for #34 and #40 work.

Sorry my guy but there's no way in hell we're adding 4 rookies in one season.

Well normally I'd agree with you, but we do have room for them, even if we make all of these trades. And playing all of them would help us tank a little more for the 2025 draft (maybe drop us 3-4 spots), and it could help the 4 rooks develop a little faster as well.

[WuTang_CMB]

Yep.
Trade up to #13 with the Kings. (#13+Huerter+Veznekov for #19+Brown+McDaniels)
and/or
Tradeup to #9 with Memphis. (#9+Kennard for Poeltl) This works by itself, or they could throw in LaRavia or Konchar if they want to toss us a little more salary (hell, we'll take both of them).

Maybe try #19+#31 for #24+#25. If the Knicks really covet someone that's fallen to #19 unexpectedly.

Then find a way to make #31 for #34 and #40 work.

Sorry my guy but there's no way in hell we're adding 4 rookies in one season.

Well normally I'd agree with you, but we do have room for them, even if we make all of these trades. And playing all of them would help us tank a little more for the 2025 draft (maybe drop us 3-4 spots), and it could help the 4 rooks develop a little faster as well.

4 rookies aint happening

[nivisi9]

Sorry my guy but there's no way in hell we're adding 4 rookies in one season.

Well normally I'd agree with you, but we do have room for them, even if we make all of these trades. And playing all of them would help us tank a little more for the 2025 draft (maybe drop us 3-4 spots), and it could help the 4 rooks develop a little faster as well.

4 rookies aint happening

It should, who cares about having to develop rookies?

That should be the gameplay and philosophy.

especially considering we need atleast 1 top pick during this rebuild and it should be 2025.

Imagine you trade Poeltl package for Memphis 9# and then trade Brown for an additional pick in the 20's..

Say a guy slides like Risacher and you come away with a haul such as..

9)Risacher
19) Carrington
20's Brown pick) Messi
31) Holmes

What a dream haul that would be..

I'd rather develop - Risacher/Carrington/Messi/Holmes group over playing Trent / Brown/ Olynyk etc. and not be concerned "to many rookies"

[Scase]

Well normally I'd agree with you, but we do have room for them, even if we make all of these trades. And playing all of them would help us tank a little more for the 2025 draft (maybe drop us 3-4 spots), and it could help the 4 rooks develop a little faster as well.

4 rookies aint happening

It should, who cares about having to develop rookies?

That should be the gameplay and philosophy.

especially considering we need atleast 1 top pick during this rebuild and it should be 2025.

Imagine you trade Poeltl package for Memphis 9# and then trade Brown for an additional pick in the 20's..

Say a guy slides like Risacher and you come away with a haul such as..

9)Risacher
19) Carrington
20's Brown pick) Messi
31) Holmes

What a dream haul that would be..

I'd rather develop - Risacher/Carrington/Messi/Holmes group over playing Trent / Brown/ Olynyk etc. and not be concerned "to many rookies"

Exactly. We're drafting players in ranges that normally amount to jack squat (not counting #9), you need as many kicks at the can as possible to try and find a winner in the bunch.

Plus it sets us up to have a bad season next year to give us a shot at a very high pick in a draft with potential superstar talent. Win win IMO.

[WuTang_CMB]

Well normally I'd agree with you, but we do have room for them, even if we make all of these trades. And playing all of them would help us tank a little more for the 2025 draft (maybe drop us 3-4 spots), and it could help the 4 rooks develop a little faster as well.

4 rookies aint happening

It should, who cares about having to develop rookies?

That should be the gameplay and philosophy.

especially considering we need atleast 1 top pick during this rebuild and it should be 2025.

Imagine you trade Poeltl package for Memphis 9# and then trade Brown for an additional pick in the 20's..

Say a guy slides like Risacher and you come away with a haul such as..

9)Risacher
19) Carrington
20's Brown pick) Messi
31) Holmes

What a dream haul that would be..

I'd rather develop - Risacher/Carrington/Messi/Holmes group over playing Trent / Brown/ Olynyk etc. and not be concerned "to many rookies"

Lol
Im willing to bet they are not adding 4 rookies. Where you guys going. they are already adding 2 rookies to this team. 3 max if they get another pick

[nivisi9]

4 rookies aint happening

It should, who cares about having to develop rookies?

That should be the gameplay and philosophy.

especially considering we need atleast 1 top pick during this rebuild and it should be 2025.

Imagine you trade Poeltl package for Memphis 9# and then trade Brown for an additional pick in the 20's..

Say a guy slides like Risacher and you come away with a haul such as..

9)Risacher
19) Carrington
20's Brown pick) Messi
31) Holmes

What a dream haul that would be..

I'd rather develop - Risacher/Carrington/Messi/Holmes group over playing Trent / Brown/ Olynyk etc. and not be concerned "to many rookies"

Lol
Im willing to bet they are not adding 4 rookies. Where you guys going. they are already adding 2 rookies to this team. 3 max if they get another pick

ya probably not, the point is they should.

What I just outlined has way more value to the rebuild then the alternative.

All these veterans we know what they are (ex.trent), likely aren't part of the future, and we're still gonna suck this year anyway.

We should be extracting as much value possible out of where we are (beginning of rebuild).

the alternative is a total waste ( big picture) which is all that really matters.

[deeps6x]

That makes me wonder what we should be doing with Trent. Sign him for a 2+1, then trade him at the trade deadline for an asset? Or just grab someone to replace him on a cheap rookie deal?

I say at the trade deadline, because I assume we'll be wanting to suck extra hard from that point on, as will most of the bottom half of the league, just for the slight possible shot at Cooper or whomever else looks like potential super star lottery talent. Atlanta showed everyone that you can win it all, even from the back of the draw.

[Pointgod]

It should, who cares about having to develop rookies?

That should be the gameplay and philosophy.

especially considering we need atleast 1 top pick during this rebuild and it should be 2025.

Imagine you trade Poeltl package for Memphis 9# and then trade Brown for an additional pick in the 20's..

Say a guy slides like Risacher and you come away with a haul such as..

9)Risacher
19) Carrington
20's Brown pick) Messi
31) Holmes

What a dream haul that would be..

I'd rather develop - Risacher/Carrington/Messi/Holmes group over playing Trent / Brown/ Olynyk etc. and not be concerned "to many rookies"

Lol
Im willing to bet they are not adding 4 rookies. Where you guys going. they are already adding 2 rookies to this team. 3 max if they get another pick

ya probably not, the point is they should.

What I just outlined has way more value to the rebuild then the alternative.

All these veterans we know what they are (ex.trent), likely aren't part of the future, and we're still gonna suck this year anyway.

We should be extracting as much value possible out of where we are (beginning of rebuild).

the alternative is a total waste ( big picture) which is all that really matters.

Yeah like there’s literally no downside to this approach. The upside is that you get guys minutes, build up their trade value, generate a better pick in next year’s draft and if you want to make a win now move for next year, we have more assets to put in a trade and some cap space. Don’t know why posters are scared of copying a formula that other teams have used successfully

[deeps6x]

Like OKC.

[TGM]

I hate to say this cause I’m one of the biggest Jakob supporters. But his value might be as high as possible now. There are a number of teams that lack a true defensive passing C like Jakob. The stability he brings to your team on defence is huge. Add in the reasonable contract, term length and age. Teams that tasted the playoffs and want to get that missing piece. Jakob is the guy. Houston could use him, OKC could use him, Pelicans could use him.

one deal I would love to see is Cason, Dort and 12 for Jakob and 19. We nab Edey at 12. We then try to flip Brown for a bad contract and another first. In the 15-25 range. Use it to take a guy like Shannon.

We get a defensive PG, a 3 and D in Dort on a reasonable contract. Edey we develop as our future C. Draft Chomche at 31 and stash him in the G League.

Sign Smith for MLE.

Re-up Gary

IQ - Wallace
Shannon - Trent
Barrett - Dick
Barnes - Dort
Kelly - Edey - Boucher

[ConSarnit]

Lol
Im willing to bet they are not adding 4 rookies. Where you guys going. they are already adding 2 rookies to this team. 3 max if they get another pick

ya probably not, the point is they should.

What I just outlined has way more value to the rebuild then the alternative.

All these veterans we know what they are (ex.trent), likely aren't part of the future, and we're still gonna suck this year anyway.

We should be extracting as much value possible out of where we are (beginning of rebuild).

the alternative is a total waste ( big picture) which is all that really matters.

Yeah like there’s literally no downside to this approach. The upside is that you get guys minutes, build up their trade value, generate a better pick in next year’s draft and if you want to make a win now move for next year, we have more assets to put in a trade and some cap space. Don’t know why posters are scared of copying a formula that other teams have used successfully

Who has drafted 4 players in the same draft and ever come close to hitting on all 4?

You guys are all ignoring the diminishing returns factor. Even in a bad draft half of the actual NBA level players will be drafted before 19. If you have 4 picks, by the time you’re picking in the 30’s you’re drafting a player you aren’t overly high on and you’re making a pick for the sake of a pick.

Want to know why having 4 picks in this draft is a bad idea: we already traded a late 1st for Agbaji. That’s what the front office thinks of this draft. They’d rather take on a borderline player with only 2 years left on their deal than actually draft someone. Why trade for a draft pick that we are going to use on a guy we aren’t even that high on? (because we’ve already drafted the guys we’re high on)

This “4 picks” strategy might make sense with picks before #20 (when the majority of talent is drafted) but it doesn’t make sense later in a bad draft. And I’ll ask again: who has ever come close to successfully hitting on 3 or more picks in the same draft? There are easier (and more efficient) ways of making this team bad next year then taking fliers on a bunch of guys in a bad draft.

[deeps6x]

I hate to say this cause I’m one of the biggest Jakob supporters. But his value might be as high as possible now. There are a number of teams that lack a true defensive passing C like Jakob. The stability he brings to your team on defence is huge. Add in the reasonable contract, term length and age. Teams that tasted the playoffs and want to get that missing piece. Jakob is the guy. Houston could use him, OKC could use him, Pelicans could use him.

one deal I would love to see is Cason, Dort and 12 for Jakob and 19. We nab Edey at 12. We then try to flip Brown for a bad contract and another first. In the 15-25 range. Use it to take a guy like Shannon.

We get a defensive PG, a 3 and D in Dort on a reasonable contract. Edey we develop as our future C. Draft Chomche at 31 and stash him in the G League.

Sign Smith for MLE.

Re-up Gary

IQ - Wallace
Shannon - Trent
Barrett - Dick
Barnes - Dort
Kelly - Edey - Boucher

While I would LOVE that deal, I don't think OKC would even do Cason and Dort for Poeltl straight up, let alone downgrade their draft pick. Dort is too important to them, on too good a contract, and Cason is viewed as a key player for the future.

OKC is so hard to trade with because they don't have any bad money contracts on the books.

[RoteSchroder]

ya probably not, the point is they should.

What I just outlined has way more value to the rebuild then the alternative.

All these veterans we know what they are (ex.trent), likely aren't part of the future, and we're still gonna suck this year anyway.

We should be extracting as much value possible out of where we are (beginning of rebuild).

the alternative is a total waste ( big picture) which is all that really matters.

Yeah like there’s literally no downside to this approach. The upside is that you get guys minutes, build up their trade value, generate a better pick in next year’s draft and if you want to make a win now move for next year, we have more assets to put in a trade and some cap space. Don’t know why posters are scared of copying a formula that other teams have used successfully

Who has drafted 4 players in the same draft and ever come close to hitting on all 4?

You guys are all ignoring the diminishing returns factor. Even in a bad draft half of the actual NBA level players will be drafted before 19. If you have 4 picks, by the time you’re picking in the 30’s you’re drafting a player you aren’t overly high on and you’re making a pick for the sake of a pick.

Want to know why having 4 picks in this draft is a bad idea: we already traded a late 1st for Agbaji. That’s what the front office thinks of this draft. They’d rather take on a borderline player with only 2 years left on their deal than actually draft someone. Why trade for a draft pick that we are going to use on a guy we aren’t even that high on? (because we’ve already drafted the guys we’re high on)

This “4 picks” strategy might make sense with picks before #20 (when the majority of talent is drafted) but it doesn’t make sense later in a bad draft. And I’ll ask again: who has ever come close to successfully hitting on 3 or more picks in the same draft? There are easier (and more efficient) ways of making this team bad next year then taking fliers on a bunch of guys in a bad draft.

That's not the main problem. We got Poeltl #9, Siakam #27 and FVV undrafted in one year. We've also worked out a bunch of dudes projected to be undrafted.

I think the problem is more so potentially getting 3-4 guys who can't contribute right away taking up roster spots. If a few of them bust or take a while to develop, they'll just be taking up space for a few years.

[DreamTeam09]

Lol
Im willing to bet they are not adding 4 rookies. Where you guys going. they are already adding 2 rookies to this team. 3 max if they get another pick

ya probably not, the point is they should.

What I just outlined has way more value to the rebuild then the alternative.

All these veterans we know what they are (ex.trent), likely aren't part of the future, and we're still gonna suck this year anyway.

We should be extracting as much value possible out of where we are (beginning of rebuild).

the alternative is a total waste ( big picture) which is all that really matters.

Yeah like there’s literally no downside to this approach. The upside is that you get guys minutes, build up their trade value, generate a better pick in next year’s draft and if you want to make a win now move for next year, we have more assets to put in a trade and some cap space. Don’t know why posters are scared of copying a formula that other teams have used successfully

The downside is having to pay 4 rookies at the same time when their contact extension comes up. Plus it's hard to prioritize 4 rookies at once to develop. We are so early into our rebuild, putting all your eggs into this draft makes little sense.
We have 3 picks over the next 2 following draft, getting another pick in either 2025 or 2026 makes more sense than loading up in this draft.

[Spida888]

I hate to say this cause I’m one of the biggest Jakob supporters. But his value might be as high as possible now. There are a number of teams that lack a true defensive passing C like Jakob. The stability he brings to your team on defence is huge. Add in the reasonable contract, term length and age. Teams that tasted the playoffs and want to get that missing piece. Jakob is the guy. Houston could use him, OKC could use him, Pelicans could use him.

one deal I would love to see is Cason, Dort and 12 for Jakob and 19. We nab Edey at 12. We then try to flip Brown for a bad contract and another first. In the 15-25 range. Use it to take a guy like Shannon.

We get a defensive PG, a 3 and D in Dort on a reasonable contract. Edey we develop as our future C. Draft Chomche at 31 and stash him in the G League.

Sign Smith for MLE.

Re-up Gary

IQ - Wallace
Shannon - Trent
Barrett - Dick
Barnes - Dort
Kelly - Edey - Boucher

While I would LOVE that deal, I don't think OKC would even do Cason and Dort for Poeltl straight up, let alone downgrade their draft pick. Dort is too important to them, on too good a contract, and Cason is viewed as a key player for the future.

OKC is so hard to trade with because they don't have any bad money contracts on the books.

I agree OKC won't offer Cason/Dort for Poeltl but they're not hard to trade with though if they intend to absorb Poeltl's contract using their cap space. After cleaning up their cap holds like Hayward they'll have $30M+ in cap space.

The offer may be #12 + Giddey/pick(s) for Poeltl.

[Thaddy]

They are probably looking to trade up to secure Ware. He's been impressing in work outs and we need a young shooter at the big position.

[ConSarnit]

Yeah like there’s literally no downside to this approach. The upside is that you get guys minutes, build up their trade value, generate a better pick in next year’s draft and if you want to make a win now move for next year, we have more assets to put in a trade and some cap space. Don’t know why posters are scared of copying a formula that other teams have used successfully

Who has drafted 4 players in the same draft and ever come close to hitting on all 4?

You guys are all ignoring the diminishing returns factor. Even in a bad draft half of the actual NBA level players will be drafted before 19. If you have 4 picks, by the time you’re picking in the 30’s you’re drafting a player you aren’t overly high on and you’re making a pick for the sake of a pick.

Want to know why having 4 picks in this draft is a bad idea: we already traded a late 1st for Agbaji. That’s what the front office thinks of this draft. They’d rather take on a borderline player with only 2 years left on their deal than actually draft someone. Why trade for a draft pick that we are going to use on a guy we aren’t even that high on? (because we’ve already drafted the guys we’re high on)

This “4 picks” strategy might make sense with picks before #20 (when the majority of talent is drafted) but it doesn’t make sense later in a bad draft. And I’ll ask again: who has ever come close to successfully hitting on 3 or more picks in the same draft? There are easier (and more efficient) ways of making this team bad next year then taking fliers on a bunch of guys in a bad draft.

That's not the main problem. We got Poeltl #9, Siakam #27 and FVV undrafted in one year. We've also worked out a bunch of dudes projected to be undrafted.

I think the problem is more so potentially getting 3-4 guys who can't contribute right away taking up roster spots. If a few of them bust or take a while to develop, they'll just be taking up space for a few years.

That’s still 3 guys, not 4 as is being suggested here. FVV also cost us nothing. That was also probably one of the best scouting/drafts of all-time by our front office. Hitting on 2 all-stars and a solid role player. Replicating that is extremely unlikely. I do agree with the playing time issues.

The front office has already tipped their hand when it comes to this draft. We know they did not value a late 1st very highly. If they are trading for another pick in the 30’s they are drafting someone with lower potential than Agbaji. This isn’t even just a speculative case of “wish we had another pick”. We literally traded one away because of how little we think about the back half of this draft. If the front office had identified draft-worthy targets they never would have traded for Agbaji. That should tell us all we need to know about their evaluation of this draft. Maybe in a different draft they’d have felt differently but the fact we moved off a late pick should be a strong indicator as to how they’ve evaluated this draft.

[ConSarnit]

I hate to say this cause I’m one of the biggest Jakob supporters. But his value might be as high as possible now. There are a number of teams that lack a true defensive passing C like Jakob. The stability he brings to your team on defence is huge. Add in the reasonable contract, term length and age. Teams that tasted the playoffs and want to get that missing piece. Jakob is the guy. Houston could use him, OKC could use him, Pelicans could use him.

one deal I would love to see is Cason, Dort and 12 for Jakob and 19. We nab Edey at 12. We then try to flip Brown for a bad contract and another first. In the 15-25 range. Use it to take a guy like Shannon.

We get a defensive PG, a 3 and D in Dort on a reasonable contract. Edey we develop as our future C. Draft Chomche at 31 and stash him in the G League.

Sign Smith for MLE.

Re-up Gary

IQ - Wallace
Shannon - Trent
Barrett - Dick
Barnes - Dort
Kelly - Edey - Boucher

While I would LOVE that deal, I don't think OKC would even do Cason and Dort for Poeltl straight up, let alone downgrade their draft pick. Dort is too important to them, on too good a contract, and Cason is viewed as a key player for the future.

OKC is so hard to trade with because they don't have any bad money contracts on the books.

I agree OKC won't offer Cason/Dort for Poeltl but they're not hard to trade with though if they intend to absorb Poeltl's contract using their cap space. After cleaning up their cap holds like Hayward they'll have $30M+ in cap space.

The offer may be #12 + Giddey/pick(s) for Poeltl.

I just wonder how far down the list a guy like Poeltl is on OKC’s wants.

-they pretty much lost the DAL series in Giddey’s minutes. Replace him with a shooter and that series might have gone differently. They have a style of play they want to maintain and Poeltl doesn’t fit

-if they want to experiment with a bigger C they might be able to pry someone like Capela away from ATL at a much cheaper price. Then if the experiment fails they’re not out much

-they have so many draft assets they might aim for a better fit like WCJ

-they have a bunch of cap space so they could target someone like Hartenstein in FA and keep all of their assets. Or if they want to experiment going big they bring in someone like Bitadze for cheaper

-they might have grand designs for their cap space (PG?) and won’t want to tie it up on Poeltl

I don’t see a world in which OKC is willing to invest anything significant in acquiring Poeltl. If they want to go big they might go a cheaper route (Poeltl probably doesn’t start for them). If they want to aim higher they have the assets to do so. I think Poeltl could help them but I’d bet they are looking at multiple other options before they’d settle on Poeltl. They probably want to make a splash with their cap space and their salary filler in a Poeltl trade would be solid players (like Dort) which reduces any additional assets they might send out. A Poeltl deal might make a lot more sense (for us and them) if OKC had ~$17m in bad(ish) salary on their books.

[tecumseh18]

Raps are not getting Cason Wallace for Jak or any other non-core piece. Hmm, would we trade RJ for Wallace? I hate to give up RJ's size and cost control, but we don't know for sure if he's really turned a corner. I have no opinion. I'd want back more than Wallace, tho'.

[Michael Jordan]

Lets be real - Raptors will be back next year as a lottery team. Keeping Brown and Poeltl appears pointless if the squad isn't going to be competitive. Trade them for prospect or anything you can get at this point.

Draft 1 good rookie this year and build around Barnes + RJ + Quickley.