Monitoring the Trade: Rob Dillingham for Jakob Poeltl

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Why are we assuming the Raptors would have picked Dillingham with the pick? That's an argument in bad faith. We're also ignoring the fact that not having Jakob would have led to more L's in the season, which would have likely meant a higher pick than number 8, which means we should rather compare someone like Steph Castle vs Jak

When you talk about a player trade for a draft pick, you always use the player taken the draft. Otherwise, we would have no way to evaluate trades that are player for draft pick.

[basketballto]

The Raptors went 10-10 last 20 games. They could have potentially lost 5 more and with the right tie-breaking get the 4th pick and select castle. More likely they end up not getting 4 and picking Donovan Clingan or Holland or Tidjane. Would you trade any of our recent picks for them or Rob Dillingham? No it was a poor draft.

Poeltl has been a great asset. Only decent center since the championship. We need another Poeltl.. the trade was a 77/100 center for a guy who most likely won't be in the league after 25. He is our best center.

Not liking the trade because you don't like the direction of the team at that time is understandable but its still a good trade because you can flip him for a player better than Rob.

[Kurtz]

I'd like to think we would have picked Edey - but I agree, the only way to evaluate who won is to compare against the guy picked at his draft spot. Otherwise you're forever comparing the guy against everyone drafted after him (and even before with the Castle example), and that's always gonna look like an L.

[nikster]

Why are we assuming the Raptors would have picked Dillingham with the pick? That's an argument in bad faith. We're also ignoring the fact that not having Jakob would have led to more L's in the season, which would have likely meant a higher pick than number 8, which means we should rather compare someone like Steph Castle vs Jak

When you talk about a player trade for a draft pick, you always use the player taken the draft. Otherwise, we would have no way to evaluate trades that are player for draft pick.

a draft pick seems way more valuable if you look at the next 5 guys drafted and pick the best one lol. People do the same thing for the Thad Young trade, nobody talks about Malachi Branham as the selection.

Im sure if we traded away Dick or Jakobes picks we would be saying we would draft someone better

[TravisScott55]

trading the 22 pick for thad was much worse than this

[WiggOuts]

At this point I'm not sure if Dillingham is better than Jamal Shead

[mtcan]

trading the 22 pick for thad was much worse than this

In retrospect...Malaki Branham didn't pan out for the Spurs and if you think Walker Kessler would have been the pick...he has barely been healthy having missed a lot of time including a season ending injury now.

Missing out on Andrew Nembhard is probably the biggest regret from that trade.

[C_Money]

Why does everyone assume we were picking Dillingham?

[Duffman100]

Why does everyone assume we were picking Dillingham?

No one is assuming that. But given that's who was picked using the picks, it's really the only way you can gauge the trade.

Otherwise, as said, it's a slippery slope of comparing every player drafted afterwards for the trade which obviously is problematic.

[DreamTeam09]

Why does everyone assume we were picking Dillingham?

No one is assuming that. But given that's who was picked using the picks, it's really the only way you can gauge the trade.

Otherwise, as said, it's a slippery slope of comparing every player drafted afterwards for the trade which obviously is problematic.

even if

Zach
McCain
Ware

are the only players from that draft worthy of selections at 8 or 9 and none of those guys are needle movers.

I'll take Jakob over all 3 of those cats

[Duffman100]

Why does everyone assume we were picking Dillingham?

No one is assuming that. But given that's who was picked using the picks, it's really the only way you can gauge the trade.

Otherwise, as said, it's a slippery slope of comparing every player drafted afterwards for the trade which obviously is problematic.

even if

Zach
McCain
Ware

are the only players from that draft worthy of selections at 8 or 9 and none of those guys are needle movers.

I'll take Jakob over all 3 of those cats

Man, imagine Ware over Walter now

[Tha Cynic]

Pascal Siakam, Fred Van Vleet, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes

Do you think those are good players?

The trade was made because that team struggled after reaching the playoffs the previous season and it was obvious they needed a big.

It was more about giving the roster a chance and I can’t blame them for that. Those are pretty good players as you can see with the impact they have had on their new teams.

Would I have made that trade? No, I didn’t like the personality match. But I can see why they did it.

[Duffman100]

Pascal Siakam, Fred Van Vleet, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes

Do you think those are good players?

The trade was made because that team struggled after reaching the playoffs the previous season and it was obvious they needed a big.

It was more about giving the roster a chance and I can’t blame them for that. Those are pretty good players as you can see with the impact they have had on their new teams.

Would I have made that trade? No, I didn’t like the personality match. But I can see why they did it.

I didn't like the timing. But value wise (in isolation) it's a no brainer.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Pascal Siakam, Fred Van Vleet, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes

Do you think those are good players?

The trade was made because that team struggled after reaching the playoffs the previous season and it was obvious they needed a big.

It was more about giving the roster a chance and I can’t blame them for that. Those are pretty good players as you can see with the impact they have had on their new teams.

Would I have made that trade? No, I didn’t like the personality match. But I can see why they did it.

I didn't like the timing. But value wise (in isolation) it's a no brainer.

I think they did try to be sellers at that time but were getting low balled. So they pivoted into being buyers.
It did stall the rebuild but can’t really blame them given the circumstances

[mihaic]

Pascal Siakam, Fred Van Vleet, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes

Do you think those are good players?

The trade was made because that team struggled after reaching the playoffs the previous season and it was obvious they needed a big.

It was more about giving the roster a chance and I can’t blame them for that. Those are pretty good players as you can see with the impact they have had on their new teams.

Would I have made that trade? No, I didn’t like the personality match. But I can see why they did it.

I didn't like the timing. But value wise (in isolation) it's a no brainer.

I think they did try to be sellers at that time but were getting low balled. So they pivoted into being buyers.
It did stall the rebuild but can’t really blame them given the circumstances

We also don't know the ownership mindset. Maybe they wanted to win with their current core and passed that message.

But to come back to the trade, the only thing we can conclude is that depending on the actual outcome we could have done better, comparable, or worse

[mihaic]

Pascal Siakam, Fred Van Vleet, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes

Do you think those are good players?

The trade was made because that team struggled after reaching the playoffs the previous season and it was obvious they needed a big.

It was more about giving the roster a chance and I can’t blame them for that. Those are pretty good players as you can see with the impact they have had on their new teams.

Would I have made that trade? No, I didn’t like the personality match. But I can see why they did it.

I didn't like the timing. But value wise (in isolation) it's a no brainer.

I think they did try to be sellers at that time but were getting low balled. So they pivoted into being buyers.
It did stall the rebuild but can’t really blame them given the circumstances

We also don't know the ownership mindset. Maybe they wanted to win with their current core and passed that message.

But to come back to the trade, the only thing we can conclude is that depending on the actual outcome we could have done better, comparable, or worse

Edit: also who knows, if not for that epic Nick Nurse collapse, we would've still kept Fred and Pascal.

[sidsid]

I didn't like the timing. But value wise (in isolation) it's a no brainer.

I think they did try to be sellers at that time but were getting low balled. So they pivoted into being buyers.
It did stall the rebuild but can’t really blame them given the circumstances

We also don't know the ownership mindset. Maybe they wanted to win with their current core and passed that message.

But to come back to the trade, the only thing we can conclude is that depending on the actual outcome we could have done better, comparable, or worse

We do have most of this information.

At the time (not known to the public, but internal):

- the locker room was imploding with the core being on different pages, likely not wanting to play with each other
- Coach freewheeling and not listening to the FO
- Selfishness and stat padding followed
- Fred was an expiring contract
- the GM did not want to sign his best player to the contract he wanted
- In prime position to tank for a generational talent

This move was not to "keep the core together". The GM didn't want to sign his best player. You can see what the plan is based on the OG trade. They just wanted to get to mediocrity any way they could so that they could continue to make asset draining trades to keep at that level at minimum. Even though Jak's limitations didn't fit with Siakam and Barnes. It was just a pure talent/position play regardless of any real rationale beyond that.

Very obvious to pivot to the Wemby tank and get what you can in the trades, even if it's just Fred with the information they had on hand. A mixture of hubris and denial of their past failures is why the only rational decision wasn't made.

[anotherhomer]

I think they did try to be sellers at that time but were getting low balled. So they pivoted into being buyers.
It did stall the rebuild but can’t really blame them given the circumstances

We also don't know the ownership mindset. Maybe they wanted to win with their current core and passed that message.

But to come back to the trade, the only thing we can conclude is that depending on the actual outcome we could have done better, comparable, or worse

We do have most of this information.

At the time (not known to the public, but internal):

- the locker room was imploding with the core being on different pages, likely not wanting to play with each other
- Coach freewheeling and not listening to the FO
- Selfishness and stat padding followed
- Fred was an expiring contract
- the GM did not want to sign his best player to the contract he wanted
- In prime position to tank for a generational talent

This move was not to "keep the core together". The GM didn't want to sign his best player. You can see what the plan is based on the OG trade. They just wanted to get to mediocrity any way they could so that they could continue to make asset draining trades to keep at that level at minimum. Even though Jak's limitations didn't fit with Siakam and Barnes. It was just a pure talent/position play regardless of any real rationale beyond that.

Very obvious to pivot to the Wemby tank and get what you can in the trades, even if it's just Fred with the information they had on hand. A mixture of hubris and denial of their past failures is why the only rational decision wasn't made.

ppl were speculating that MLSE did not sign-off to tank away for the draft.

Bobby Webster allured to that "you just simply can't tear down a team that was 5th in conference and made the 1st round, winning 2 games last year)
Probably the answer was....hey you didn't get a center, go get one!

[AkelaLoneWolf]

We get that the two contingent on this board will never be happy with that trade but right now he’s coming off two straight 20 point games. It’s worked out very well for us in the long term.

[anotherhomer]

We get that the two contingent on this board will never be happy with that trade but right now he’s coming off two straight 20 point games. It’s worked out very well for us in the long term.

ya, i have to agree