Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[brownbobcat]

Counter point, we know the FO tried their hardest to trade the 9th pick on draft day. Bobby isn't interested in picks, he wants win now players.

It is so short-sighted. This team only tanked for 2 years (2023-24 doesn't count because they traded that pick) and somehow thinks they're ready to go all in.

It's an expensive roster so I get it from their POV. If you can get Derrick White beside IQ, BI and Scottie. You do it if you don't plan to rebuild.

That's the sunk cost fallacy if you ask me, but can't rewind the clock.

[HumbleRen]

It is so short-sighted. This team only tanked for 2 years (2023-24 doesn't count because they traded that pick) and somehow thinks they're ready to go all in.

It's an expensive roster so I get it from their POV. If you can get Derrick White beside IQ, BI and Scottie. You do it if you don't plan to rebuild.

That's the sunk cost fallacy if you ask me, but can't rewind the clock.

Oh I agree. I don’t think this starting 5 is doing anything of note. I’m just saying from their POV, I get it.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If it’s RJ/Poeltl/Ochai going out I can see them attempting it if they can get the clearance from the Raptors medical team and AD can show any sign of all nba play in the next 2 months.

He will be making a lot of money in the next 3 years, so if you’re not expecting all nba AD this is a terrible trade to sign off on. Same way it would be terrible to give the exact same package for Embiid. Albatross contract that has an >50% chance of turning out bad for the Raptors given their ages and health history.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I definitely would explore avenues to move off Poeltl’s contract though. Already starting to decline in year 1 of the extension lol

IQ I’d also super overpaid for what he can actually do. His pull-up 3pt shooting can get better but he can still barely get by guys without a screen and when teams just switch he can’t do anything on ball.

If either can be moved with an Ochai (expiring) to get an upgrade at their position I’d be down

[Merit]

Dude so does every team in the league. The only way you do that is through the draft or finding diamonds in the rough of overlooked journey men. However, maybe you can find guys like Shead, but you don’t just dig up SGAs which is why you need to acquire them.

For those saying they don’t want Davis, or saying he is too expensive. I’m really curious to hear a proposal of how you get a superstar that helps us compete, is young, on a good contract and doesn’t have injury risk.

That’s like saying you find a wife that

“Feeds me”
“F*^ks me”
And
“Shuts the F^*k up!”

I found one of those diamond in the rough wifeys and was too immature at the time to realize it. My absolute loss.

That said, while I know those types of humans exist, and will find another amazing human to settle down with, the greater likelihood for team and life building is that compromise of some sort is necessary.

It seems that riding the injury wave is the compromise that allows us - a team with few fully developed assets to trade - to acquire a player like AD for guys off our bench and two rotation players. One benefit is our medical team lead by Alex McKechnie.

I think the challenge is how to get a superstar calibre player. Cause it’s not even guaranteed in each draft. You might get a guy of Booker calibre which is amazing already but it’s honestly still not going to be sufficient. ADs contract is big. But when he becomes a FA no one will max him out. He probably gets like a 2 year 45-50 million extension. So it’s a bit risk adjusted as you pay him the big bucks over the next two years while he can still contribute at a decent level. The alternative is to wait and see if our guys develop. Acquiring a healthy young superstar will be near impossible. Those guys are typically helping their existing teams thrive and that’s why they rarely become available. But if we look at the past 5 championship teams they have all had a top 5 player. So you either go AD or you push more chips in for Giannis. Don’t see how other superstars becoming available. Guys like Ja, Trae, Sabonis aren’t bad consolation prizes but probably still lack that extra gear for us. Big name free agents also won’t come here. So I think that’s the reality we face. The other way is you gamble on guys like Trey Murphy that are still young and you hope they bust out to superstars, but even acquiring those guys won’t be cheap. I think if we get AD, Jakob has to go just to reduce injury concentration.

Yeah I hear you on superstar talent. The fact that 3x teams who are never in the rumour mill have been singled out here is interesting. Agreed that AD is both a superstar talent and the one who would cost less than Giannis to acquire. The challenge for me is his next contract. He cannot be paid more than Scottie or BI so it’s effectively an all in push over the next 2-3 years. I’m okay with that, but would prefer a trade for Giannis.

For example: Jak/RJ/Gradey + picks for Giannis + Coffey leaves us with a far more balanced roster, while losing an absolute fan favourite and a key cog on team Canada. It makes more sense to include RJ in a trade for Giannis, since Giannis puts so much pressure on the rim.

Compare that with IQ/Jak/Gradey/Ochai + less picks for AD/Russell/Powell/Lively. Of course, Russell could prove us wrong and go ballistic but I personally feel more comfortable with a trade for Giannis. In this case we keep RJ because we need his rim pressure as AD plays a far more perimeter oriented game. That creates a hole at the PG position and at the C position this season, as AD has stated he does not want to play C. Giannis on the other hand has never said that.

[Son Goku 25]

I can definitely see this.

Bobby even went hard for Dame. I remember him mentioning they offered a very strong package for him but ultimately it was one side who was actually trying to make something happen.

I think we may have been close too considering shams tweeted out trade with Raptors then deleted it.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Did mods delete my post?!? Hard F*cking pass, no thanks.

[TimeForChange]

I would only do it if it's only one heavily protected first going out from Toronto and Jakob and RJ.

I am not giving up an unprotected first.

[TGM]

I would only do it if it's only one heavily protected first going out from Toronto and Jakob and RJ.

I am not giving up an unprotected first.

It is near impossible to get someone of AD's calibre wth heavily protected picks. Maybe top 3 or max top 5. But there would be many other teams able to offer more than that.

As much as I want to get one of the top bigs. I think asset management wise, is try to be the 3rd team that needs to send back out a player that the receiving team wants to flip.

If Giannis went to Miami you try to get Bam
If Giannis goes to NY you try to get Towns
If Ja goes to Minny, maybe you try to swap out Jakob for Gobert. Jak's contract and Gobert's delta is not that big once the extension kicks in. It gives Minny short term relief and not a big downgrade. For Raps we get a more durable C to anchor the middle.

[Mr. Perfect]

IQ + Poeltl + Dick + 2026 1st unprotected

For AD + Russell

I'd be ok with this.

[WeThe2019Champs]

Davis... What's the point, team won't get any better

[C_Money]

IQ + Poeltl + Dick + 2026 1st unprotected

For AD + Russell

I'd be ok with this.

D’Angelo Russell is washed up at this point. This fanbase hates PG’s as it is. Russell would be the most hated guy on the team.

[Merit]

IQ + Poeltl + Dick + 2026 1st unprotected

For AD + Russell

I'd be ok with this.

D’Angelo Russell is washed up at this point. This fanbase hates PG’s as it is. Russell would be the most hated guy on the team.

He is definitely not washed. He’s just stuck in a situation where he’s on the world’s shortest leash. He’s extremely talented and I’d think of him in the Kyle Lowry mould of abrasive players who did stupid things but have their last chance to be on a different trajectory.

In terms of stats, this year is the first year since his rookie season where he has a negative offensive win share. IMO that’s entirely down to usage and Jason Kidd trying to lose. He’s also never had a negative defensive win share in his career. He averages 36% from 3 for his career and is 6’5” in shoes with a 6’10” wingspan. He’s also not even 30 yet, despite being in the league for 10 years. Is he perfect? Heck no. Could he be a better fit for this team than IQ? TBD. Would he be a steal at his current contract if he met 70% of his career counting stat averages? Heck yes.

Do I still have concerns? Yes. As a throw in alongside AD? He makes a world of sense.

[Johnny Bball]

Will Lou basically said he would do an AD trade for the Raptors if Poeltl's contract is part of it, in his react pod for yesterday's game.

He also threw out an oddly specific framework that he thinks the Raptors would have to consider.

Poeltl
RJ
1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey
1 FRP

Considering how plugged in he seems to be with Bobby, and this oddly specific proposal only has 1 FRP in it (a Masai/Bobby special as this FO has yet to move multiple FRPs in 1 trade), I have a gut feeling Bobby would actually pull the trigger something like this.

Although the Mavs are reportedly looking for and valuing draft capital in an AD trade, so I doubt just 1 FRP cuts it for them at the moment.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47262180/anthony-davis-trade-guide-five-deals-mavericks-warriors-spurs-pistons-hawks-raptors

Probably from here.

edit; and I caught up and see you saw exactly the same

[Johnny Bball]

AD is turning 33. The history of athletic bigs who’ve been oft injured getting into their mid-30s is almost universally awful. No thanks!

Also, contrary to popular belief, AD has always functioned best as a PF (same as Scottie) next to a true big, and then you can go small with him at C to finish games against certain opponents. So IOW we’d still need a big and ideally one who can shoot given Davis is inconsistent to say the least.

It’s just a terrible idea all around, especially given we’d surely have to give up some draft compensation which is super risky because the timeline for the current group might be as short as two years.

AD's best position is Centre in the playoffs or closing.

[Merit]

ESPN put out proposals for a bunch of the rumoured teams including Toronto.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47262180/anthony-davis-trade-guide-five-deals-mavericks-warriors-spurs-pistons-hawks-raptors

I'm fine with that. This year's FRP is the only one I'd be willing to part with since it'll be a mediocre one. If this trade doesn't work out (and it probably won't), it allows us to pivot to a tank or trade for an actual, reliable difference-maker since we'd have all of our future picks.

Yeah this is true. Plus I think in 2 years AD as an expiring would actually have some suitors and you could re-coup 75% of what you gave up.

I mean... **** it? If it absolutely blows up in your face you just trade everyone in 2027 and blow it sky high. Rebuild with whatever picks and prospects you get for IQ / Scottie / AD / Ingram

I wouldn't LOVE doing that deal, but I could live with it as i guess theoretically, if it all goes well, you are a finals team.

If we’re moving RJ and Jak and a first, we better be getting back someone better than Tony Bradley as a secondary piece. The Indy/Gafford trade can happen without the Raps and AD.

I guess I’m just not sure that AD puts us over the top. Also, trading RJ and Jak is similar to trading Demar in terms of sadness for me.

I’ve made a few suggestions in terms of a Dallas trade already, but that’s purely speculation on my part. I would far rather make a huge play for Giannis than for AD, but if the Raps get AD I’d definitely be good with it.

[Jerry Lucas]

Will Lou basically said he would do an AD trade for the Raptors if Poeltl's contract is part of it, in his react pod for yesterday's game.

He also threw out an oddly specific framework that he thinks the Raptors would have to consider.

Poeltl
RJ
1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey
1 FRP

Considering how plugged in he seems to be with Bobby, and this oddly specific proposal only has 1 FRP in it (a Masai/Bobby special as this FO has yet to move multiple FRPs in 1 trade), I have a gut feeling Bobby would actually pull the trigger something like this.

Although the Mavs are reportedly looking for and valuing draft capital in an AD trade, so I doubt just 1 FRP cuts it for them at the moment.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47262180/anthony-davis-trade-guide-five-deals-mavericks-warriors-spurs-pistons-hawks-raptors

Probably from here.

edit; and I caught up and see you saw exactly the same

The podcast that Will Lou first mentioned his AD proposal was actually before ESPN put out that article. The proposal ESPN put out is also surprisingly more favourable for the Raptors than Will Lou's proposal, because he thinks we would have to give up 1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey as the 3rd outgoing player, while ESPN thinks it only takes Ochai's expiring.

[Mr. Perfect]

IQ + Poeltl + Dick + 2026 1st unprotected

For AD + Russell

I'd be ok with this.

D’Angelo Russell is washed up at this point. This fanbase hates PG’s as it is. Russell would be the most hated guy on the team.

His numbers are down this year but he's not far off from IQ's level, but at like 15% of the salary.

Dump IQ and Poeltl's contract. Get back an AD and Russell on shorter term to fill out the starting lineup. You go for it in a weak east, it's worth it for a Finals appearance. It will be harder to get back next year and moving forward.

[TGM]

Pretty sure the price for AD will be a starter, friendly salary filler, a young player and 2 picks.

Dallas is not a non-compete team when they get back Kyrie with Davis and Flagg. So don’t see how such a deal espn is proposing would even make any sense if they plan to keep Kyrie.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm fine with that. This year's FRP is the only one I'd be willing to part with since it'll be a mediocre one. If this trade doesn't work out (and it probably won't), it allows us to pivot to a tank or trade for an actual, reliable difference-maker since we'd have all of our future picks.

Yeah this is true. Plus I think in 2 years AD as an expiring would actually have some suitors and you could re-coup 75% of what you gave up.

I mean... **** it? If it absolutely blows up in your face you just trade everyone in 2027 and blow it sky high. Rebuild with whatever picks and prospects you get for IQ / Scottie / AD / Ingram

I wouldn't LOVE doing that deal, but I could live with it as i guess theoretically, if it all goes well, you are a finals team.

If we’re moving RJ and Jak and a first, we better be getting back someone better than Tony Bradley as a secondary piece. The Indy/Gafford trade can happen without the Raps and AD.

I guess I’m just not sure that AD puts us over the top. Also, trading RJ and Jak is similar to trading Demar in terms of sadness for me.

I’ve made a few suggestions in terms of a Dallas trade already, but that’s purely speculation on my part. I would far rather make a huge play for Giannis than for AD, but if the Raps get AD I’d definitely be good with it.

I don't think Giannis wants to be here... he didn't even want to be here when Masai was in charge, definitely not now. He'll probably walk in summer of 2027 and we'd have to give up minimum Barnes to have a conversation with Milwaukee.

AD is a different move, it's a buy-low move, and we have as good a relation with Klutch as any team in the league. I'd feel more confident in keeping AD happy than Giannis.

From AD's perspective, he's playing for one last contact after this and he might have something to prove. Maybe he wants to be the best player on a finals-bound team to shed the label of being a 2nd banana. I don't know.

All the trade offers on ESPN are low-value, so if that's reflective of the actual market for AD I think you gotta go for it. You're just not getting a player that level, in a conveniently weak Eastern conference. Yeah he's injury prone and he wants term, but whatever, if your cost of purchase is low (IQ and Poeltl salary dump + mid first round pick + a prospect that likely won't pan out). I don't see any loss here, better than being a play-in team.