SoTD: Bargnani's defensive breakdown (updated)

Skeebs · Post #281 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:14 am

If you expect him to improve then dry your eyes.

Tommy Gun · Post #282 » by **Tommy Gun** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:15 am

LOL@ Lionel Messis being trolled by "Skeebs"..

Way too obvious "Skeebs"

Skeebs · Post #283 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:17 am

Tommy Gun wrote:LOL@ Lionel Messis being trolled by "Skeebs"..

Way too obvious "Skeebs"

Not sure what you mean, but I'm just stating my opinion. People are being too hard on bargs and I think this stat is as flawed as most others out there.

Post #284 » by **Schad** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:19 am

Skeebs wrote:
Tommy Gun wrote:LOL@ Lionel Messis being trolled by "Skeebs"..

Way too obvious "Skeebs"

Not sure what you mean, but I'm just stating my opinion. People are being too hard on bargs and I think this stat is as flawed as most others out there.

If it showed Bargs to be a significantly better defender than most believe him to be, would it still be flawed?

Lionel Messi · Post #285 » by **Lionel Messi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:21 am

Skeebs wrote:Go look at that team and tell me who else was going to take those shots. Bosh is talented but hes just a really tall SF that cant hit threes for defend the SF spot. If bosh was 3 or 4 inches shorter he would be Jeff Green.

Is this for real?

I am being trolled.

disoblige · Post #286 » by **disoblige** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:22 am

Lionel Messi · Post #287 » by **Lionel Messi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:22 am

Skeebs wrote:If you expect him to improve then dry your eyes.

No idea what this means.

Skeebs · Post #288 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:22 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Skeebs wrote:
Tommy Gun wrote:LOL@ Lionel Messis being trolled by "Skeebs"..

Way too obvious "Skeebs"

Not sure what you mean, but I'm just stating my opinion. People are being too hard on bargs and I think this stat is as flawed as most others out there.

If it showed Bargs to be a significantly better defender than most believe him to be, would it still be flawed?

Ya it would be. Just by looking at that list I can see a bunch of name standing out that shouldnt be there. If they are misplaced why not bargs. Why not most people. This is only the list for centres what does the SG or PG list look like.

Does the centre position get too much pressure because of poor wing defenders and terrible pg defence? too many questions for me to take this seriously.

Skeebs · Post #289 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:25 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
Skeebs wrote:If you expect him to improve then dry your eyes.

No idea what this means.

It means that if you expect him to improve dont cry until he STOPS improving. Why are you going to complain about how a caterpillar looks for every day of its existence without seeing the butterfly man!

Like I said Bargs has improved every year. He has added to his game.

Bosh just does the same thing hes always done but he blocks way less than he used too. I guess hes too good for defence. Theres a reason raptors teams are consistently bad on defence the last 7 years.

Skeebs · Post #290 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:26 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
Skeebs wrote:Go look at that team and tell me who else was going to take those shots. Bosh is talented but hes just a really tall SF that cant hit threes for defend the SF spot. If bosh was 3 or 4 inches shorter he would be Jeff Green.

Is this for real?

I am being trolled.

Dont flatter yourself, you're just another random to me. I'm sorry I dont hold CB4 in very high regard like you seem to.

disoblige · Post #291 » by **disoblige** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:31 am

bosh is an average defender for a PF and rebounds very well. Somehow it feels that he is not a dominant game changer.

Post #292 » by **Schad** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:32 am

Skeebs wrote:
Ya it would be. Just by looking at that list I can see a bunch of name standing out that shouldnt be there. If they are misplaced why not bargs. Why not most people. This is only the list for centres what does the SG or PG list look like.

If this measure, when compared to the many measures that exist, was anomalous, I would agree. But it isn't...this ranks him very near the bottom of the league, as does +/-, as does adjusted +/-, as does observation, and as say those around the league paid to watch the games.

The verdict on Bargnani's defense is as close to unanimous as it gets: everyone save for a handful of Raptors fans and every cluster of pixels imaginable have long since concluded that he is an absolutely awful defensive player. And they have concluded this because it is, in fact, the truth.

Post #293 » by **kyphi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:34 am

disoblige wrote:bosh is an average defender for a PF and rebounds very well. Somehow it feels that he is not a dominant game changer.

That's why he needs to pair with a "super star". And, due to he Raps financial situation, that's not going to happen in Toronto. unless BC pulls a rabbit out of his a@@.

Lionel Messi · Post #294 » by **Lionel Messi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:37 am

Skeebs wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
Skeebs wrote:If you expect him to improve then dry your eyes.

No idea what this means.

It means that if you expect him to improve dont cry until he STOPS improving. Why are you going to complain about how a caterpillar looks for every day of its existence without seeing the butterfly man!

Like I said Bargs has improved every year. He has added to his game.

I'm saying I expected more from him THIS YEAR. Bargnani is past he caterpillar stage man. He broke out last year after January. Now it's time for him to assert himself more. I expected him to do that this year, but he didn't.
We needed him to rebound and defend much better, but he didn't. That's why I'm complaining.

Skeebs wrote:Bosh just does the same thing hes always done but he blocks way less than he used too. I guess hes too good for defence. Theres a reason raptors teams are consistently bad on defence the last 7 years.

Raptors were 13th in D-effiiciency in 06/07 and 07/08 IIRC. That's above average. Bosh has gotten better and bigger every year. When the defence focuses more on him we don't notice it because he improved that summer.
Does Bargnani think he's "too good for defence" then? Because he's a worse defender than Bosh, and he doesn't carry the scoring/rebounding load that Bosh does.

As Bosh has had to do more on offence and on the glass his shot-blocking has gone down, but he still gives us a block a game and he steps his defence up when the game matters most. He routinely makes big plays on defence in crunch time along with his rebounding and scoring.
Bosh hasn't plateaued. He's gotten better. His post-up game improved, his ability to finish with his right hand improved, his rebounding improved etc.

BTW, you're basically complaining because a top 2 PF in the game is "only" a top 2 PF in the game. Just FYI.

Skeebs · Post #295 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:40 am

Maybe top two offensively.

Lionel Messi · Post #296 » by **Lionel Messi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:42 am

Skeebs wrote:Maybe top two offensively.

Dirk and Bosh are the top 2 PFs in the league. I don't think Mavs fans are complaining about Dirk not being a top 2 defender as well :roll:

Skeebs · Post #297 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:45 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
Skeebs wrote:Maybe top two offensively.

Dirk and Bosh are the top 2 PFs in the league. I don't think Mavs fans are complaining about Dirk not being a top 2 defender as well

Dont ever compare Bosh to Dirk. Bosh wishes he could play basketball like Dirk.

Post #298 » by **kyphi** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:48 am

Skeebs wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
Skeebs wrote:Maybe top two offensively.

Dirk and Bosh are the top 2 PFs in the league. I don't think Mavs fans are complaining about Dirk not being a top 2 defender as well

Dont ever compare Bosh to Dirk. Bosh wishes he could play basketball like Dirk.

Bosh wishes he could have teammates like Dirk's.

Skeebs · Post #299 » by **Skeebs** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:51 am

I dont dispute the talent level between the two teams thats not the point. If Bosh had Dirks teammates he would probably be putting up 19 ppg.

disoblige · Post #300 » by **disoblige** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:51 am

dallas' budget is much higher than the raptors .