Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[nabbs]

Regarding Chris's, Does the narrative of him having the tools and athleticism to be a special offensive and defensive presence on the floor remind you have Hassan Whiteside?? The lack of maturity, which is evident from him, would also support the comparison.

[DreamTeam09]

Regarding Chris's, Does the narrative of him having the tools and athleticism to be a special offensive and defensive presence on the floor remind you have Hassan Whiteside?? The lack of maturity, which is evident from him, would also support the comparison.

I'm not worried about those narratives anymore coming out of college. They said the same thing about Drummond which soured me off of him and look how's he's been in the NBA. I wouldn't say his ball iq is lacking, definitely not his motor and his defense is almost elite.

My pf rankings for raps

Bender
Chriss
Rabb
Ellenson

[Omzz]

Kings with a clutch win

[DreamTeam09]

In fact, I don't see how Masai passes on Chriss on draft day. We are going to bring him in for workouts and he's going to wow us. Workouts are offense heavy and Chriss will wow the masses especially given his age. Come draft day we are going to have 1 natural pf under contract(Patterson) and at least 2-3 deep everywhere else.

Unless someone drops, I think chriss is our guy.

[deeps6x]

I've added ORtg and DRtg and Box Plus/Minus to illustrate which players are actually good on defence.

TRB, Pts, Ast, Stl and Blk are Per 40

6.5 TRB, .372 3pt%, .448 FG%, .499 eFG%, 19.9 Pts, 7.6 Ast, 3.0 Stl, 0.7 Blk, .541 TS%, 23.2 PER, ORtg 106.1, DRtg 94.8, BPM 11.3. Dunn

9.1 TRB, .444 3pt%, .462 FG%, .579 eFG%, 23.3 Pts, 9.4 Ast, 1.3 Stl, 0.3 Blk, .608 TS%, 29.7 PER, ORtg 127.2, DRtg 94.0, BPM 16.5. Valentine

3.8 TRB, .331 3pt%, .451 FG%, .514 eFG%, 17.6 Pts, 5.2 Ast, 1.4 Stl, 0.3 Blk, .560 TS%, 21.0 PER, ORtg 117.9, DRtg 112.2, BPM 6.7.
D Jackson

6.5 TRB, .457 3pt%, .501 FG%, .623 eFG%, 28.8 Pts, 2.3 Ast, 1.3 Stl, 0.6 Blk, .665 TS%, 28.2 PER, ORtg 123.8, DRtg 101.5, BPM 11.5. Hield

14.8 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .614 FG%, .614 eFG%, 24.2 Pts, 2.1 Ast, 1.5 Stl, 2.1 Blk, .649 TS%, 33.0 PER, ORtg 130.2, DRtg 92.3, BPM 13.4.
B Johnson

8.9 TRB, .329 3pt%, .462 FG%, .510 eFG%, 25.4 Pts, 1.3 Ast, 1.0 Stl, 1.2 Blk, .567 TS%, 24.7 PER, ORtg 115.6, DRtg 99.8, BPM 6.7. Ben Bentil

11.8 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .598 FG%, .598 eFG%, 16.1 Pts, 1.6 Ast, 0.6 Stl, 3.9 Blk, .601 TS%, 23.9 PER, ORtg 121.4, DRtg 90.9, BPM 10.8.
D Davis

8.6 TRB, .350 3pt%, .530 FG%, .561 eFG%, 22.1 Pts, 1.2 Ast, 1.5 Stl, 2.2 Blk, .585 TS%, 21.7 PER, ORtg 112.0, DRtg 102.2, BPM 5.9. Chriss

5.9 TRB, .408 3pt%, .454 FG%, .559 eFG%, 22.7 Pts, 2.5 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 0.3 Blk, .590 TS%, 22.7 PER, ORtg 120.2, DRtg 102.6, BPM 9.1. Murray

7.9 TRB, .361 3pt%, .432 FG%, .493 eFG%, 20.8 Pts, 3.0 Ast, 1.7 Stl, 1.0 Blk, .537 TS%, 20.8 PER, ORtg 109.7, DRtg 102.7, BPM 7.4. Prince

12.0 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .646 FG%, .624 eFG%, 22.7 Pts, 2.6 Ast, 0.8 Stl, 2.0 Blk, .666 TS%, 31.1 PER, ORtg 128.8, DRtg 98.5, BPM 11.2. Poeltl

11.9 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .615 FG%, .616 eFG%, 17.5 Pts, 1.3 Ast, 0.7 Stl, 1.7 Blk, .636 TS%, 24.2 PER, ORtg 124.8, DRtg 95.3, BPM 8.7. Ivan Rabb

11.6 TRB, .288 3pt%, .446 FG%, .480 eFG%, 20.3 Pts, 2.1 Ast, 1.0 Stl, 1.8 Blk, .534 TS%, 20.9 PER, ORtg 106.3, DRtg 98.5, BPM 3.6. Ellenson

14.8 TRB, .357 3pt%, .611 FG%, .618 eFG%, 22.0 Pts, 2.2 Ast, 0.8 Stl, 1.1 Blk, .654 TS%, 29.3 PER, ORtg 124.6, DRtg 91.2, BPM 9.0. Sabonis

7.8 TRB, .294 3pt%, .431 FG%, .471 eFG%, 21.2 Pts, 2.9 Ast, 1.2 Stl, 0.9 Blk, .518 TS%, 17.6 PER, ORtg 98.4, DRtg 97.1, BPM 3.6. Brown

6.1 TRB, .372 3pt%, .398 FG%, .482 eFG%, 18.8 Pts, 3.6 Ast, 2.2 Stl, 0.5 Blk, .521 TS%, 16.8 PER, ORtg 101.5, DRtg 97.4, BPM N/A. Luwawu


Some comments. You can't see it here, but Prince scares me. His shooting has got worse each and every year in college.

Brown actually hurts his team on O. He may be built like a mini-LeBron, but that is the opposite of LeBron.

Not only does Brice Johnson rebound at an all-star level, his ORtg - DRtg differential is amazing!

If Masai decides to go PF with the first pick, Davis might just have the most upside. Best D already, great blocker, good rebounder, and a nice mid range jumper. Rabb isn't bad either. Good across the board.

Murray, excellent numbers for a player his age. Will he be better than Valentine at 22? Who knows. He does have a slight headstart though.

Chriss. Poor rebounding, poor D, Meh on O, but he can hit the 3. Someone will regret making him a lottery pick.

And on to the point guards, Dunn, Valentine and Jackson. Hmmm, which one spent the season guarding SFs and still smokes the other two on D? Which one rebounds better than half of the PFs on this list? Which one smokes the other two in the assist department? Which one has the highest BPM of ALL of the potential picks listed? Which one is the second best 3 point shooter on the whole list? Which one has an absolutely massive 33 point ORtg-DRtg differential? Which one was the AP College player of the year? Yup, this guy. The guy we should be picking if we are going BPA with the Nugget's pick.

[metafisical]

Denver has Utah and Portland left. Come on, 0-2!

Sacramento has Phoenix and Houston left. At worst, they need to go 1-1.

Milwaukee has Philly, Orlando and Indiana left. Realistically, 1-2, but hoping for 2-1.

Orlando has Miami, Milwaukee and Charlotte left. Probably 1-2, but possibly even 0-3.

Very tight race to the bottom, but 9 to 11 is not bad, I guess.

[UcanUwill]

Furkan Korkmaz ended his season in Euroleague, so lets look how he did :

2.7 points per game, 0.9 rebounds per game, 0.5 assists per game, 8:49 minutes per game.

Per 36 minutes :

11.4 points, 3.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 0.4 steals, 0.8 blocks

percentages :

39.1 FG%, 42.3 3PT%, 57.1 FT%, 52 TS%

Advanced stats :

7.9 PER, 1.1 PPS, 16.1 USG%, 6.5 TRB%, ORtg 103.6, DRtg 113.4.

accumulated stats :

+/- +36 (6th highest on team), 27 PIR

Assists pie chart :

[Gold Dragon]

Some comments. You can't see it here, but Prince scares me. His shooting has got worse each and every year in college.

Brown actually hurts his team on O. He may be built like a mini-LeBron, but that is the opposite of LeBron.

Not only does Brice Johnson rebound at an all-star level, his ORtg - DRtg differential is amazing!

If Masai decides to go PF with the first pick, Davis might just have the most upside. Best D already, great blocker, good rebounder, and a nice mid range jumper. Rabb isn't bad either. Good across the board.

Murray, excellent numbers for a player his age. Will he be better than Valentine at 22? Who knows. He does have a slight headstart though.

Chriss. Poor rebounding, poor D, Meh on O, but he can hit the 3. Someone will regret making him a lottery pick.

And on to the point guards, Dunn, Valentine and Jackson. Hmmm, which one spent the season guarding SFs and still smokes the other two on D? Which one rebounds better than half of the PFs on this list? Which one smokes the other two in the assist department? Which one has the highest BPM of ALL of the potential picks listed? Which one is the second best 3 point shooter on the whole list? Which one has an absolutely massive 33 point ORtg-DRtg differential? Which one was the AP College player of the year? Yup, this guy. The guy we should be picking if we are going BPA with the Nugget's pick.

While stats are good at identifying some elements of where a player's development has gone so far, it is dangerous to extrapolate too much from college stats. I would say ORTG and DRTG are particularly dependent on the system and teammates.

Freshmen in particular are difficult to extrapolate with only one year of data and strong reliance on how they are used in their system. For a lot of these guys like Brown and Chriss, stats can help us identify their current weaknesses and from there we can determine how much that can be improved upon and how difficult that road might be. A lot of that is about coachability, work ethic and BBIQ.

Brown's deficiencies I see as much more fixable and he has the IQ to make that transition in comparison to Chriss.

And then there are guys like Brice and Valentine who are seniors and we need to see how much of their success will translate to the NBA. It is always dangerous to overrate the numbers with seniors who are often just physically and mentally more mature than their competition in college. So it is important to see how they are putting up those numbers and whether the skills they take advantage of in college will translate in the NBA.

As you know I like both of them and I think both of them will translate. I don't think Valentine's defense will translate to the same level because of his below average athleticism and Brice's offense will also not translate because of his lack of advanced moves and range. However I think both will be ok enough at their weaknesses not to be liabilities.

However, Valentine's vast offensive skills are not strongly dependent on athleticism but more on his above average IQ and he will be able to use a lot of his skills to win in the NBA as well. Brice's athleticism will make him a very useful defender in the NBA and his defensive numbers should translate and may even become elite, although he still has a long way to go to get there.

[Double Helix]

I'm a Chriss fan because I saw him and my first thought was a less polished Aaron Gordon with shot blocking ability but I wonder if Masai might be gunshy of a 6'9-ish freak athlete jump shooting big after just witnessing Bennett's struggles firsthand.

Hear me out on this. Even if you grant that Chriss is the superior athlete to Bennett (and he is) AB was no slouch and was blessed with freakishly long arms. More importantly, Bennett dominated UNLV with a nice mix of inside and out play and despite tremendous opportunities in 3 different situations hasn't been able to even carve out a reliable bench role yet.

There's so far only been one Blake Griffin-type that's made that size and athleticism and shooting skill work at the level everyone hoped and that's Blake Griffin himself. Derrick Williams couldn't do it either. Aaron Gordon might be the most promising of these types and is one of the best athletes ever seen of these types but it's even difficult to see the path toward him becoming a top 15 2-way PF at the moment to me, barring some extremely rare growth. Not too long ago we had Ed Davis. He had NBA pedigree. Came from UNC. Was well-coached there and won. Had tremendous NBA athleticism and motor but he's still basically been an energy big off the bench in his career. Hump was built like a linebacker and had some impressive finesse skill for such a bruiser. The NBA PF position is loaded with enough talented and still reasonably young 2-way vets that it's becoming increasingly hard for raw PFs without one or two NBA-ready elite skills and high bball IQ on the defensive end to make their mark. You can get guys like Hansbrough or Hump for cheap year after year. It makes me less excited about the path for guys like Chriss that need a lot of work if they also don't have a length advantage in addition to the athleticism.

I have faith in Masai though. If he picked Chriss I'd feel good about the path they imagine for him but after the failed Bennett experiment I can't help but wonder if he might be a little gunshy when looking at a kid like this in an open gym who looks even less refined than Bennett did with similar (or worse) length. Chriss is probably 2 years away from being two years away from truly challenging vet PFs in this league for a starting spot and that's IF all goes well for him.

[Jon_3232]

Terrance Ferguson is a beast! Young two-way player. Lights out shooter with lock down defensive potential. He gets Ray Allen type lift on his jumper, it's gorgeous. Whoever drafts this kid next year will get a monster.

I'd trade DeMar for the ability to draft this kid. If the Lakers want DeMar they'll need to pony up with that 2017 first rounder.

We literally would have no say in the Lakers giving up something. DeMar is a UFA and the Lakers have boatloads of cap space.

[kron100]

Our best best is to take Demetrious Jackson I have him ranked 6th overall..Think he turns out to be one of the better players in the draft, he's easily the player at 11 and I think he's way better than Delon Wright.

[0 - 100]

I think Masai goes guard or small forward in this draft. There aren't any stud PF prospects, just guys with potential and flaws, I just don't see Masai going that way with the Denver pick. This is still a perimeter player league, and we dont know when we will have a top 10 pick again so I see us going for pure perimeter skill, ie. trading for Murray (although the emergence of Norm has to have him thinking about this unless he sees Murray can be a PG), or take Jaylen Brown if he drops or just drafts a guy like Luwawu who's got some great skill and physically attributes to be a future SF in this league. Demetrious Jackson is intriguing and could be the pick if Masai thinks the time is now to find Lowry's replacement.

[anj]

Some comments. You can't see it here, but Prince scares me. His shooting has got worse each and every year in college.

Brown actually hurts his team on O. He may be built like a mini-LeBron, but that is the opposite of LeBron.

Not only does Brice Johnson rebound at an all-star level, his ORtg - DRtg differential is amazing!

If Masai decides to go PF with the first pick, Davis might just have the most upside. Best D already, great blocker, good rebounder, and a nice mid range jumper. Rabb isn't bad either. Good across the board.

Murray, excellent numbers for a player his age. Will he be better than Valentine at 22? Who knows. He does have a slight headstart though.

Chriss. Poor rebounding, poor D, Meh on O, but he can hit the 3. Someone will regret making him a lottery pick.

And on to the point guards, Dunn, Valentine and Jackson. Hmmm, which one spent the season guarding SFs and still smokes the other two on D? Which one rebounds better than half of the PFs on this list? Which one smokes the other two in the assist department? Which one has the highest BPM of ALL of the potential picks listed? Which one is the second best 3 point shooter on the whole list? Which one has an absolutely massive 33 point ORtg-DRtg differential? Which one was the AP College player of the year? Yup, this guy. The guy we should be picking if we are going BPA with the Nugget's pick.

While stats are good at identifying some elements of where a player's development has gone so far, it is dangerous to extrapolate too much from college stats. I would say ORTG and DRTG are particularly dependent on the system and teammates.

Freshmen in particular are difficult to extrapolate with only one year of data and strong reliance on how they are used in their system. For a lot of these guys like Brown and Chriss, stats can help us identify their current weaknesses and from there we can determine how much that can be improved upon and how difficult that road might be. A lot of that is about coachability, work ethic and BBIQ.

Brown's deficiencies I see as much more fixable and he has the IQ to make that transition in comparison to Chriss.

And then there are guys like Brice and Valentine who are seniors and we need to see how much of their success will translate to the NBA. It is always dangerous to overrate the numbers with seniors who are often just physically and mentally more mature than their competition in college. So it is important to see how they are putting up those numbers and whether the skills they take advantage of in college will translate in the NBA.

As you know I like both of them and I think both of them will translate. I don't think Valentine's defense will translate to the same level because of his below average athleticism and Brice's offense will also not translate because of his lack of advanced moves and range. However I think both will be ok enough at their weaknesses not to be liabilities.

However, Valentine's vast offensive skills are not strongly dependent on athleticism but more on his above average IQ and he will be able to use a lot of his skills to win in the NBA as well. Brice's athleticism will make him a very useful defender in the NBA and his defensive numbers should translate and may even become elite, although he still has a long way to go to get there.

Have to second this. Nice work by deeps6x but anyone that watched Michigan State play this year can tell you that Valentine was a poor defensive player on an excellent defensive team. They had to hide him a lot. He particularly had problems guarding quicker backcourt players - where he'll likely be matching up in the NBA.

[kron100]

No way Brown falls and Luwawu can't dribble so I wouldn't even consider him as top prospect.

[mademan]

Watching more of Korkmaz, i switch to him as my top choice. I think he'll be one of the best players from this draft and will be a do-it-all offensive player who shoots +40% from 3. He's got the quickness to play good D too, just needs some strength

[Tortiglioni]

Watching more of Korkmaz, i switch to him as my top choice. I think he'll be one of the best players from this draft and will be a do-it-all offensive player who shoots +40% from 3. He's got the quickness to play good D too, just needs some strength

Korkmaz will be one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

[mademan]

Watching more of Korkmaz, i switch to him as my top choice. I think he'll be one of the best players from this draft and will be a do-it-all offensive player who shoots +40% from 3. He's got the quickness to play good D too, just needs some strength

Korkmaz will be one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

dont know why he would be one of the worst defenders. He's 6'7, he's quick and he has long arms. Just needs to add strength. Dudes only 18.

[Mikestro]

I know I'm late to the party but how TF did Nuggets beat Spurs???

[BoyzNTheHood]

Terrance Ferguson is a beast! Young two-way player. Lights out shooter with lock down defensive potential. He gets Ray Allen type lift on his jumper, it's gorgeous. Whoever drafts this kid next year will get a monster.

I'd trade DeMar for the ability to draft this kid. If the Lakers want DeMar they'll need to pony up with that 2017 first rounder.

We literally would have no say in the Lakers giving up something. DeMar is a UFA and the Lakers have boatloads of cap space.

I know that, and it still doesn't mean that a sign and trade isn't possible

[sweetcity]

Jaylen Brown at our pick would be pretty good value I think.